Another styling rant - at supercars.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by gigdy What we face over the next 10 years is the age of hyper-fast cars. Hence the new term that has been started. "Hypercars"

But they are not hypercars... as in the next level of supercar... they are simply hyper-fast cars.

They have no soul.

And more and more people are harkening back to the golden era of supercars.

[sentra_dude]

Originally Posted by irrational_i Okay a lot of flaming so I will rephrase and say that most who replied replied did not actually read my post properly. Firstly I own a Porsche 911SC which I love to death. I have driven in several Ferraris which are amazing, my favourite racing car of all time being a Ferrari 250LM and my best road one a 275GTB/4.

Well that's just great, but if you think supercars like the McLaren F1 and Porsche GT1 are boring compared to a 275GTB/4 then maybe you should go somewhere else.

Now for some of the questions. The Maclaren: The first time I saw it I was turning into a street, going uphill in traffic. I saw a "gap" in the row of cars and then realised that indeneath the front fender of a car I could see the bottom of that distinctive airscoop of the F1, so that's what I meant. Then of course I looked properly. (I know enough about supercars to identify these cars from small glimpses of bodywork.) As for blood flowing. I saw the Enzo at the Ferrari museum in Maranello and was more moved by the 750 Monza next to it. I drove 100km to see a Carrera GT and great as it was, it was actually hard to pick out from all the other Porsches as it was parked at the back. Nothing to shout "Lool at me!!!". If did not know it for what it was, I can not say I would have been as impressed AS I SHOULD BE, considering what it is. Can you see that happening to a 959 for instance?

The 750 Monza isn't exactly an ugly car...

Personally I don't think a supercar should have to be something like the Countach, completely scream-in-your-face styling and wild wings & scoops everywhere. Understatement is not bad, the rest of the car speaks for itself. Many McLaren owners like that the F1 doesn't attract huge crowds with flashly styling...

See what happening to a 959? It being mistaken for other Porsches in the parking lot? Yes, definitely, it has the same basic lines as a 911, and its looks don't exactly scream supercar...and it certainly can't be considered to have the low & wide proportions of most supercars. So I really don't see your point, its ok for the 959 to have relatively plain styling, but if the CGT doesn't reach out and grab you by the neck and make you look its a failure in terms of 'passion'?

So I was in a bad mood because everybody goes on to death about these cars that can do amazing things, go a little faster and cost millions. And as much as I love cars, I just don't think they are worth THAT MUCH of a hype. So obviously many people here do not agree, but the idea of a forum is to discuss, surely? I was not trying to insult any of those cars. I was just saying that they are immensely capable and they all have their great points, but they lack the passion they used to have in a major way. Even the Maclaren, which I would love to own, is a car designed to be as efficient as possible. Nothing wrong with that idea at all but don't you ever look at it and think you would like that nose to be a bit more this, that rear a bit more that, that ride height lower?

What do you base a supercar's 'passion' on? Looks alone? I'm not saying they aren't a very big part, but I have not heard anyone call the McLaren F1's exhaust note 'boring' or sleep-inducing...

And on the Enzo: I spoke to a prospective owner and he said it left him cold, so he cancelled his order. He'd drive his F50 any day...So he cancelled his order. He is not a rich pleb - he races Porsches, owns an F40, F50, Porsche 956 and RSR. So I value his opinion. But I think I should ask TT to scrap this post as obviously you do not want to discuss the possibility that current design ideas are not up to anything spectacular and exciting. Which was the idea of this post to start with. And if you want to flame me personally, do so. I will be happy to prove my knowledge and love of cars to you.

Well, that was an improvement from the opening post. Still, I don't see why you think the looks have to be spectacular...and by that I am assuming you mean, grab your attention with big flash...for a supercar to have passion. I understand you have different opinions, but how many people have you heard talk about the CGT's driving experience as boring? I've heard people complain about the clutch, and that the suspension is too stiff, but not a single person has said it didn't get their heart beating faster when they drove it, so I really don't see where you're coming from.

See where I am getting to? Take all these cars. Take specific bits and you have ingredients of something special, which none really grasp.

Is there any manufacturer out there that can actually create something to get the blood flowing?

Come on though, when you say something like this to a bunch of people who absolutely love super-cars, what do you expect, everyone to suddenly profess your genius?

I know as much or more about supercars than most people on this forum and definitely do not hate cars. Would some of you even know what I mean when I say TVR is a great step in the right direction like Pagani?

Hmmm....

[mindgam3]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by mindgam3 Styling isnt the only thing that makes a supercar what it is, you have to take more into account when comparing supercars. Styling is just a matter of opinion, performance figures and technology aren't Right here is why none of you kids even know what a true "super car" is. The car that single handedly created this niche (which did not exist before it arrived) proves this fact. The car I refer is not that great of a performer - yet it is the very epitome of what a super-car should look like, sound like and be like. The Lamborghini Countach. The is FAR MORE TO A SUPERCAR that just it's performance. (and considering to what great lengths y'all went to, to try prove this to me with regard to why the F360 is better than my Chevy - I am surpised you guys look straight past this when it doesn't suite your point of view) The F40 is the ultimate car - the ultimate super car and the pinnacle of supercars. The Countach is the original super car. Everything that has followed is just a high-powered pretender to the throne. The McLaren F1 is the last car to come close to this recipe - but didn't quite make. So - considering the Macca F1 is the only car ever built with such single purposeness and vision and the stuff that made up one mans dreams (Gordon Murray) and spared no expense - yet even it has been unable to dethrone the Countach as the ultimate expression of supercardom - ...and the Macca has note been able to dethrone the F40 as the pinnacle of supercardom - it is not surprising that the clinical CGT or the soul-less Enzo or the committee-designed CCS or even the ostentatious Zonder are unable to. As has been eluded to earlier, the golden age of supercars has come and gone will never be repeated. What we face over the next 10 years is the age of hyper-fast cars. That's all.

Firstly, i never stated performance is the only thing neccesary for a supercar. But it is neccesary. You have no performance in comparison to other cars of a similar era and you are not a supercar.

The car I refer is not that great of a performer - yet it is the very epitome of what a super-car should look like, sound like and be like.

Maybe so, but the fact that all these recent high performance cars aren't supercars in your opinion, is entirely that, your opinion.

Just as many posters of the enzo will be on kids bedrooms walls just as posters of the countach were back then.

As has been eluded to earlier, the golden age of supercars has come and gone will never be repeated.

The golden era for supercars has indeed been and gone.

But the newer modern era of supercars has brought us 6 or 7 in the past 5 years when before only one came around every so often. Therefore this newer era that has just been is arguarbly the better one.

Most of what you said is your opinion. The fact that the CGT is "clinical" is down to the people who made and designed it - the germans, this does not mean its no less of a supercar than any other.

The F40 is no closer to the "epitome" of supercars that is the countach than the enzo is.... except in respect to time.

[CSedl87]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by mindgam3 Styling isnt the only thing that makes a supercar what it is, you have to take more into account when comparing supercars. Styling is just a matter of opinion, performance figures and technology aren't Right here is why none of you kids even know what a true "super car" is. The car that single handedly created this niche (which did not exist before it arrived) proves this fact. The car I refer is not that great of a performer - yet it is the very epitome of what a super-car should look like, sound like and be like. The Lamborghini Countach. The is FAR MORE TO A SUPERCAR that just it's performance. (and considering to what great lengths y'all went to, to try prove this to me with regard to why the F360 is better than my Chevy - I am surpised you guys look straight past this when it doesn't suite your point of view) The F40 is the ultimate car - the ultimate super car and the pinnacle of supercars. The Countach is the original super car. Everything that has followed is just a high-powered pretender to the throne. The McLaren F1 is the last car to come close to this recipe - but didn't quite make. So - considering the Macca F1 is the only car ever built with such single purposeness and vision and the stuff that made up one mans dreams (Gordon Murray) and spared no expense - yet even it has been unable to dethrone the Countach as the ultimate expression of supercardom - ...and the Macca has note been able to dethrone the F40 as the pinnacle of supercardom - it is not surprising that the clinical CGT or the soul-less Enzo or the committee-designed CCS or even the ostentatious Zonder are unable to. As has been eluded to earlier, the golden age of supercars has come and gone will never be repeated. What we face over the next 10 years is the age of hyper-fast cars. That's all.

Since you've drivin every single car you've just mentioned and you can tell us how well it performs.... Get a life, or should I say license? And some money, then test drive each and every car you've just mentioned and then you can come back and talk, untill then stfu. Oh btw it seems you're 13 (can provide a link), so this leads me to, why the fuck are you posting like you've driven each car. Stop reading magazines and go experience each car. Oh wait, you can't, mommy has got to take you to soccer practice first, then she might let you go see that "contouch" on the corner of the street. kids under 16 shouldn't be allowed to post here.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by CSedl87 Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by mindgam3 Styling isnt the only thing that makes a supercar what it is, you have to take more into account when comparing supercars. Styling is just a matter of opinion, performance figures and technology aren't Right here is why none of you kids even know what a true "super car" is. The car that single handedly created this niche (which did not exist before it arrived) proves this fact. The car I refer is not that great of a performer - yet it is the very epitome of what a super-car should look like, sound like and be like. The Lamborghini Countach. The is FAR MORE TO A SUPERCAR that just it's performance. (and considering to what great lengths y'all went to, to try prove this to me with regard to why the F360 is better than my Chevy - I am surpised you guys look straight past this when it doesn't suite your point of view) The F40 is the ultimate car - the ultimate super car and the pinnacle of supercars. The Countach is the original super car. Everything that has followed is just a high-powered pretender to the throne. The McLaren F1 is the last car to come close to this recipe - but didn't quite make. So - considering the Macca F1 is the only car ever built with such single purposeness and vision and the stuff that made up one mans dreams (Gordon Murray) and spared no expense - yet even it has been unable to dethrone the Countach as the ultimate expression of supercardom - ...and the Macca has note been able to dethrone the F40 as the pinnacle of supercardom - it is not surprising that the clinical CGT or the soul-less Enzo or the committee-designed CCS or even the ostentatious Zonder are unable to. As has been eluded to earlier, the golden age of supercars has come and gone will never be repeated. What we face over the next 10 years is the age of hyper-fast cars. That's all. Since you've drivin every single car you've just mentioned and you can tell us how well it performs.... Get a life, or should I say license? And some money, then test drive each and every car you've just mentioned and then you can come back and talk, untill then stfu. Oh btw it seems you're 13 (can provide a link), so this leads me to, why the fuck are you posting like you've driven each car. Stop reading magazines and go experience each car. Oh wait, you can't, mommy has got to take you to soccer practice first, then she might let you go see that "contouch" on the corner of the street. kids under 16 shouldn't be allowed to post here.

Well - of the cars I metioned - the only I have not been in is a Macca F1.

The F40 was a doddle in 1987 and an LP500 sometime in 1989...

BTW, please provide the link to proof I am 13..

In the mean time I will just play with myself.. uhm I mean my car...

[Bavarias_Finest]

I will give irrational his dues ... he gives a good rebuttle ... people are just willing to be emotional and rant and rave, he gave the reasons why he believed what he believes. I respect that.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Bavarias_Finest I will give irrational his dues ... he gives a good rebuttle ... people are just willing to be emotional and rant and rave, he gave the reasons why he believed what he believes. I respect that.

There ya go... see - we can all get along - Rodney was right afterall

[Bavarias_Finest]

You cant argue with common sense ...

[sentra_dude]

Originally Posted by CSedl87 Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by mindgam3 Styling isnt the only thing that makes a supercar what it is, you have to take more into account when comparing supercars. Styling is just a matter of opinion, performance figures and technology aren't Right here is why none of you kids even know what a true "super car" is. The car that single handedly created this niche (which did not exist before it arrived) proves this fact. The car I refer is not that great of a performer - yet it is the very epitome of what a super-car should look like, sound like and be like. The Lamborghini Countach. The is FAR MORE TO A SUPERCAR that just it's performance. (and considering to what great lengths y'all went to, to try prove this to me with regard to why the F360 is better than my Chevy - I am surpised you guys look straight past this when it doesn't suite your point of view) The F40 is the ultimate car - the ultimate super car and the pinnacle of supercars. The Countach is the original super car. Everything that has followed is just a high-powered pretender to the throne. The McLaren F1 is the last car to come close to this recipe - but didn't quite make. So - considering the Macca F1 is the only car ever built with such single purposeness and vision and the stuff that made up one mans dreams (Gordon Murray) and spared no expense - yet even it has been unable to dethrone the Countach as the ultimate expression of supercardom - ...and the Macca has note been able to dethrone the F40 as the pinnacle of supercardom - it is not surprising that the clinical CGT or the soul-less Enzo or the committee-designed CCS or even the ostentatious Zonder are unable to. As has been eluded to earlier, the golden age of supercars has come and gone will never be repeated. What we face over the next 10 years is the age of hyper-fast cars. That's all. Since you've drivin every single car you've just mentioned and you can tell us how well it performs.... Get a life, or should I say license? And some money, then test drive each and every car you've just mentioned and then you can come back and talk, untill then stfu. Oh btw it seems you're 13 (can provide a link), so this leads me to, why the fuck are you posting like you've driven each car. Stop reading magazines and go experience each car. Oh wait, you can't, mommy has got to take you to soccer practice first, then she might let you go see that "contouch" on the corner of the street. kids under 16 shouldn't be allowed to post here.

I definitely do not agree with RC on this subject...but holy shit, that was an ignorant post by you! I think you are the one who is 13... Why don't you take some time to look around this forum...or maybe in RC's sig...before you make anymore stupid comments LOL.

Oh btw RC, the Miura is the original supercar.

[nthfinity]

always entitled to your opinions... for example, i really dont like the zonda, but it is something unique. others love it. cant argue with that.

if one was to mention the fact they thought the Enzo was 'cold' so he cancelled his order... what made it cold? various degrees of TC and adjustable suspension? no Maneul gearbox available? nothing but miles of carbon fiber? ok, ill disagree, but allow such comments so what that he races porshes, owns an F40/F50... those are all amazing cars, but really... what does cold mean?

a CGT looks like a Boxter?
again, the opinion game, no matter how incorrect it is seeing one next to a boxter might help pointe that out... also, i think its impossible for Porsche to create a car that doesnt look like a Porshe. especially when the car is designed to be used every day, has a great (among hypercar ranks) interior, and has the best, and most designed chassis currently in a production car.
but looks like an overgrown boxter? bah! not in the least

the mclaren f1... ok, ill agree with you on this one. i can identify its body work as well although, this car is a rip IMO as well for many reasons... its hard to call it a production vehcle with so few produced :roll:

[DUNKiNUTS]

Originally Posted by frozzu I don't agree with any of that. All of those cars are supercars and rightly so.

right on

[RC45]

Originally Posted by sentra_dude Oh btw RC, the Miura is the original supercar.

Nah - the Muira is one awesome car.. but is to much like the rest of the swoopy cars of it's day..

The LP looked like nothing else... and nothing else has ever looked like it..

[sentra_dude]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by sentra_dude Oh btw RC, the Miura is the original supercar. Nah - the Muira is one awesome car.. but is to much like the rest of the swoopy cars of it's day.. The LP looked like nothing else... and nothing else has ever looked like it..

Psh...

First mid-engine road car...that's something a bit off the beaten path isn't it?

[RC45]

Originally Posted by sentra_dude Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by sentra_dude Oh btw RC, the Miura is the original supercar. Nah - the Muira is one awesome car.. but is to much like the rest of the swoopy cars of it's day.. The LP looked like nothing else... and nothing else has ever looked like it.. Psh... First mid-engine road car...that's something a bit off the beaten path isn't it?

Well - not quite the first mid-engined car - so being the first road car with such a layout deserves a little credit... but not a lot

I mean the 250LM had the old engine out back...

[stradale]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by sentra_dude Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by sentra_dude Oh btw RC, the Miura is the original supercar. Nah - the Muira is one awesome car.. but is to much like the rest of the swoopy cars of it's day.. The LP looked like nothing else... and nothing else has ever looked like it.. Psh... First mid-engine road car...that's something a bit off the beaten path isn't it? Well - not quite the first mid-engined car - so being the first road car with such a layout deserves a little credit... but not a lot I mean the 250LM had the old engine out back...

Well, the shock that the Miura chassis caused in the automotive world was pretty big. Everyone knew Lamborghini was going to turn it into a road car, but all the public saw was a chassis only seen in racing until then. The Countach's looks were far ahead of its time, but with the Miura it was its concept and chassis that was such a big step.

I'd like to say one more thing. This topic, like it says in the title, is about STYLING! A lot of people that have responded seem to think that irrational_i thinks that the supercars he mentioned are not good cars in terms of handling, power, sound etc. But that's not what this thread is about!