motor

08-30-2003, 12:32 PM

I myself am an american who prefers european sports cars, sedans, and other vehicles. The only vehichle that im sure i would buy thats american would be an suv but i hate those. Maybe build quality and performance has to do with better euro cars but why is there an understanding that americans cant make good cars.

initiala4 · 08-30-2003, 12:55 PM

Some people are brand oriented....some people have tried and used american cars but someone dislike it..maybe the driving feeling? Gas millage? Plus in europe the market is way different than the american market..gas in europe is expensive than america..

TT · 08-30-2003, 02:21 PM

Better build quality and better handling in European cars is a matter of fact IMO... no idea why the quality, but the handling is sure given by the fact we have here in Europe more A and B roads than highway..

Wide · 08-30-2003, 02:58 PM

Yea.. agree with u TT..
European cars are so quality IMO..

AlienDB7 · 08-30-2003, 04:38 PM

and you wouldn't get a truck based engine in an european car like you would in an american one

Okay, diesel engine is an exception but let's not consider that for now.

oic0 · 08-30-2003, 05:33 PM

Cadillac is about to put out a 400hp car with the Z06 motor, that should be nice, and Ford has Jag. As for american cars not handling, they would if half of america wasnt stupid. Everyone wants bigger cars.... Still some handle good, Vette, Focus, Viper, GT-40, Cobra R, etc.... Im just waiting for everyone to get over this STUPID SUV craze so automakers can focus on sedans, sport cars, and sensible things.

As for truck engines in cars... where? These days they are more likely to put a car engine in a truck.

alondahan · 08-30-2003, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by oic0

As for truck engines in cars... where? These days they are more likely to put a car engine in a truck.

How about in the viper

TT · 08-30-2003, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by oic0

Cadillac is about to put out a 400hp car with the Z06 motor, that should be nice, and Ford has Jag. As for american cars not handling, they would if half of america wasnt stupid. Everyone wants bigger cars.... Still some handle good, Vette, Focus, Viper, GT-40, Cobra R, etc.... Im just waiting for everyone to get over this STUPID SUV craze so automakers can focus on sedans, sport cars, and sensible things.

As for truck engines in cars... where? These days they are more likely to put a car engine in a truck.

Well, as for the Focus.. it's a car for the European marked basically... and Vette, Viper and Cobra R won't stand a chance compared to good handling european cars... an Elise 111S handles better than a Cobra IMO.. with 1/4 of the hp...

Now american cars are changing luckily...

dis3as3d · 08-30-2003, 07:06 PM

I think that it is a difference in cultures. In here in the states the consumers are not as willing to buy cutting edge high performance edge sports cars that are built localy. The people that do buy these cars (in general) buy them as either a collector piece or for just general braging rights.

Instead the american consumers attitude seems to lean towards, "if you want something done right you have to do it yourself", and people rather buy a very good building block sports car. Every american sports car here has a huge aftermarket following.

And as far as America having no sports cars they have a few, ford is making a new GT40, chevy has the corvette z06, dodge has the viper.

TT · 08-30-2003, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by dis3as3d

...
And as far as America having no sports cars they have a few, ford is making a new GT40, chevy has the corvette z06, dodge has the viper.

Sure, those are sports cars, but basically they are american sports cars..

And as you said, it's obvious that European and American cultures are different... we are closer to Japan in car culture IMO.. for us a sport cars does not need a "big block"...

I'm not saying Elises, MR2, Speedster and such are better than Vipers... they're different..

AlienDB7 · 08-30-2003, 08:39 PM

It really depends on what's your definition of handling is. The newer american sports cars don't really handle that bad if all you read is the skidpad number.

For performance to price ratio, you can't beat the americans and the japs. But for most of us here, we probably want something better with more class.

If you really want performance, you may as well get a stripped down toyota echo and put couple of big turbos in. 800kg with 300hp will probably make you the fastest guy on the block... and it costs much less than a typical sports car

TT · 08-30-2003, 08:45 PM

Good points Alien

Defining handling is hard... and as always, you also have to throw in the fact that ppl have differents points of view

A good handling car IMO is a car that can make you smile even after years you've driven it, a car that behave in an honest way, never acting strange and always telling you what it's going to happen the next second. A car with progressive reactions, that can be fast on twisty roads w/o beeing crazily dangerous. A car that trasmit to you through the seat and the wheel as much info as possible.. and much more...

But the price to quality ratio in effect is a good point.. we were talking about better build quality in European cars.. but well, Euro cars costs also more compared to equivalent in US... so it would be hard to really judge that point...

stracing · 08-30-2003, 09:52 PM

americans prefer 400m runs rather than zooming thru the 'ring right?

so maybe thats why they don't care if it handles.

but even so american car companies should up the ante on build quality. even holden or ford are doing better than a 100k AUD viper or a 120k AUD vette

also american cars companies cannot compete unless they sell their shit elsewhere. if they do compete, it will only be local and they won't reap in any profits. BMW, merc, porsche, ferrari etc sell everywhere

AlienDB7 · 08-30-2003, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by TT

A good handling car IMO is a car that can make you smile even after years you've driven it, a car that behave in an honest way, never acting strange and always telling you what it's going to happen the next second. A car with progressive reactions, that can be fast on twisty roads w/o beeing crazily dangerous. A car that trasmit to you through the seat and the wheel as much info as possible.. and much more...

That's one reason why I don't like jap sedans built in america. They have virtually no feedback at all. Brake feels like an on/off switch and the steering is too light and slow. Not saying all of them are like that, but after some bad experience test driving some hondas, I actually got an american car instead! You may laugh, but that's actually what happened. The interesting thing was, I noticed a loose seat and some rattling sound when I drove the accord and they recalled the broken seat bracket 2 years later! Passat, on the other hand, is a much better in comparison, even though it's not known for its performance. Too bad it costs twice as much.

As for the price/performance issue, my car costs about same as a VW jetta (bora for the euros) and it's a midsize car with 170hp/200lb-ft. Handling sure isn't as good as the european cars but it's pretty good in terms of feedback (way too much at times). I can almost feel the prints on manhole covers when I driver over them through the wheel and pedal.

The ironic thing is, GM is going to discontinue the brand and model of my car. So we're back to the cultural aspect of this argument; the american public simply don't care about look and handling. Look at the best selling sedans in america: camry, accord and taurus. They're all boring semi-ugly cars with virtually no driving feedback.

My definition of handling is sort of similar to yours, except for one extra condition... it performs well at any speed. Consider most of us probably do lots of city driving, I think a good handling car should put a smile on your face even when it's being driven in the parking lot or in a traffic jam. That's the main reason why I threw honda (VTEC to be specific) out of my "handling" list cause the lack of torque makes city driving a boring experience. Just my personal opinion... I know I'm biased

666fast · 08-31-2003, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by stracing

also american cars companies cannot compete unless they sell their shit elsewhere. if they do compete, it will only be local and they won't reap in any profits. BMW, merc, porsche, ferrari etc sell everywhere

Thats not entirely true, both Ford and GM own a shitpile of different car companies all over the world.