Saturn aims to make dealerships like Apple Store

[Global Warming]

Wow, look at the top of the line Dell! - http://www.dell.com/content/products...=19&l=en&s=dhs

For $3,034 you get

Pentium® D Processor 930 with Dual Core Technology (3.0GHz, 800FSB)
Dual 512MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GTX!!
2GB 4 Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2 DIMMs
320GB4 Performance RAID 0 (2 x 160GB SATA 3Gb/s HDDs)
20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007FPW Widescreen Digital Flat Panel

Wow, that Apple is only 10% more dog wont hunt at all!! You get SOOOOOOOOOOOO much more for a lot less with Dell. And you can get even more for that price if you build you own and dont buy from Dell.

Apple is a TOTAL and complete rip off!!

[nickthaskater]

Thanks for doing the leg work for me Global haha

[Sir_GT]

Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere Wow, look at the top of the line Dell! - http://www.dell.com/content/products...=19&l=en&s=dhs For $3,034 you get Pentium® D Processor 930 with Dual Core Technology (3.0GHz, 800FSB) Dual 512MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GTX!! 2GB 4 Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2 DIMMs 320GB4 Performance RAID 0 (2 x 160GB SATA 3Gb/s HDDs) 20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007FPW Widescreen Digital Flat Panel Wow, that Apple is only 10% more dog wont hunt at all!! You get SOOOOOOOOOOOO much more for a lot less with Dell. And you can get even more for that price if you build you own and dont buy from Dell. Apple is a TOTAL and complete rip off!!

Not exactly. The way Mac's OS manages memory (RAM and virtual) is still far better than windows. It basically needs less "specs" to run at a speed that would normally require a higher-end PC that's running windows.

If you can install Mac's OS onto a hand-built highly specced PC, then you're better off than anyone in the price range. However, the hardware needed to do that is very specific, so you may have to find the medium.

I would rather save myself the hassle and get a built-up Mac. The warranty is good, and I don't have to worry about the OS working perfectly in tune with the hardware.

Hey listen, to each his own. If I wasn't using a lot of graphic heavy programs, I would stick to Windows. Thing is, I do, and I can no longer afford having to pay for more hardware (RAM and HDD space) just to maintain a decent working space because I have to juggle too many programs.

Just think of it this way: With a Mac, my memory is dedicated solely to running a few memory-intensive programs (Illustrator, Flash, Dreamweaver, and Photoshop), and the Mac OS itself (which, i repeat, is excellent at allocating memory, so I don't waste any if I'm switching from rendering vector art to searching for files, without shutting down apps).

If I was using a Windows OS, I would need enough RAM and virtual RAM to run those programs, a fairly effective security suite (which has to run a junkmail filter, a firewall, and an antivirus at the very least) because Window's stuff is close to worthless, and when I need to switch between rendering and searching, Windows doesn't know how to allocate memory properly, so instead of lowering the memory use for the "non-active" applications, it simply keeps adding one on top of the other, effectively slowing everything down.

This is why you need so much more memory to run Windows at a certain speed, compared to a Mac.



Like I said. That's in my case, since I use a lot of graphic intensive programs. My Windows PC at home is desperately ancient (1GB DDR and 80GB HDD) because I'm saving up for an Intel PowerMac. Keep in mind that my PC can no longer run Illustrator CS, but the 1GB iMac with a 80GB HDD at the local university can.

Take that whichever way you want to. As for me, I'll be happy when the Intel Powermacs finally come out.

[evoWalo]

XP's firewall is insufficient. The antivirus is also insuficient. I know spyware's abundant after surfing the web but a fresh install? that's something.

SP3 is not yet out yet even out. How do you expect people to use vaporeware? Been playing too much Duke Nukem Forever?

The top end G5 will be phased out in a few weeks time. Also it comes with 2 processors with dual cores. Dont discount the clock speed. Clock per clock PPC tops x86 chips. Is there any Windows desktop that sports a dual processor with dual cores? Compare their new products the Mac Mini, MAcbook, MAcbook Pro or even the iMac to a current Dell, Lenovo or HP.

The PowerMacs are marketed towards professionals. If you aint gonna make money and looking for a high powered toy then buy a Dell or better yet an Alienware.

Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere XP has all the firewall, antivirus, spyware stuff built in to and has for a few years. It comes with it, you dont need to buy anything. The firewall has been part of XP since SP2 and the new virus stuff is part of SP3 i believe. Anyway who wants to use the bundeled versions of that stuff anyway? On XP or apple? First thing I do when I install XP is turn all that crap off. And from what I can tell Apples are still WAY more expensive. The top of the line G5 that costs $3,299 only comes with a NVIDIA GeForce 6600?!?!? That like a $50 card now!! How can apple call themselves king of multi-media and sell their top computer with such an out of date video card?? I have a 6800GT and its almost a year old now! Some of the other specs are - only 512MB of 533MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-4200) and a tiny 250GB Serial ATA hard drive?!?!? And that cost $3,300?!? That is such a rip off I cant even believe it! Thats like 100% more than it would cost to build the same thing. I got the prices and specs here - http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...&nclm=PowerMac And you will say its that price because of the "Two dual-core 2.5GHz PowerPC G5 processors" But why would you want such a fast processor hooked to such a crappy video card and small ammount of RAM? So you upgrade the video card, RAM, and HD and now your Apple is costing over 4k! Plus that price does NOT include one of Apples LCDs. Add one of those and now you are up to 5k or more!

[evoWalo]

What OS does it run on?

People give Apple products high hell for their PPC chips, every single time. They're phasing those tired silicon out quite soon.

Apple's just waiting for Intel's new server chips for their "Mac Pro" line. They want to avoid using Pentium chips because Intel just phased those out.

If you have a tolerance for Windows then that Dell looks mighty fine but alas it's still Windows. Doesnt matter how fast your computer is if it can get gummed up by some random virus or gunked up by spyware or compromised by some script kiddie off IRC. That's why some PC users go with Linux but alas Linux on the desktop is far worse than Windows in terms of usability & far worse on desktop applications than Macs.

If you're computing expectations is just yay high then I guess that's fine but some people want a better experience.

Why else would people buy a more expensive car if Kia Pride can get you from point A to point B just as quick but at a cheaper price?

Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere Wow, look at the top of the line Dell! - http://www.dell.com/content/products...=19&l=en&s=dhs For $3,034 you get Pentium® D Processor 930 with Dual Core Technology (3.0GHz, 800FSB) Dual 512MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GTX!! 2GB 4 Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2 DIMMs 320GB4 Performance RAID 0 (2 x 160GB SATA 3Gb/s HDDs) 20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007FPW Widescreen Digital Flat Panel Wow, that Apple is only 10% more dog wont hunt at all!! You get SOOOOOOOOOOOO much more for a lot less with Dell. And you can get even more for that price if you build you own and dont buy from Dell. Apple is a TOTAL and complete rip off!!

[Global Warming]

Originally Posted by evoWALO What OS does it run on? People give Apple products high hell for their PPC chips, every single time. They're phasing those tired silicon out quite soon. Apple's just waiting for Intel's new server chips for their "Mac Pro" line. They want to avoid using Pentium chips because Intel just phased those out. If you have a tolerance for Windows then that Dell looks mighty fine but alas it's still Windows. Doesnt matter how fast your computer is if it can get gummed up by some random virus or gunked up by spyware or compromised by some script kiddie off IRC. That's why some PC users go with Linux but alas Linux on the desktop is far worse than Windows in terms of usability & far worse on desktop applications than Macs. If you're computing expectations is just yay high then I guess that's fine but some people want a better experience. Why else would people buy a more expensive car if Kia Pride can get you from point A to point B just as quick but at a cheaper price? Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere Wow, look at the top of the line Dell! - http://www.dell.com/content/products...=19&l=en&s=dhs For $3,034 you get Pentium® D Processor 930 with Dual Core Technology (3.0GHz, 800FSB) Dual 512MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GTX!! 2GB 4 Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2 DIMMs 320GB4 Performance RAID 0 (2 x 160GB SATA 3Gb/s HDDs) 20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007FPW Widescreen Digital Flat Panel Wow, that Apple is only 10% more dog wont hunt at all!! You get SOOOOOOOOOOOO much more for a lot less with Dell. And you can get even more for that price if you build you own and dont buy from Dell. Apple is a TOTAL and complete rip off!!

LOL I’m not even going to start the age old Apple vs. PC argument again. No body wants OSX on their computer. That’s why it’s on less than 3% of the world’s computers. Its ding OS and Apple is a ding company except for their iPods which really has nothing to o with computers anyway. If you want to use OSX go right ahead. But 97.2% of the rest of the world does not!

I just proved that Apple's hardware is way over priced garbage. I mean I still can’t believe they are selling their top model with an 6600 video card! They make the worst computers on earth and no one wants OSX.

Also I have 5 different XP machines and I have not had a virus in years so that’s a pretty silly thing to get scared over.

[evoWalo]

97% of the market doesnt even know what OS X is. So how can you say they dont want it?

Yes, using last year's model slated to be phased out proves your point. The current iMac's better spec'd & than the PowerMac.

Glad you never got viruses but 97% of the planet has to deal with it.

Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere LOL I’m not even going to start the age old Apple vs. PC argument again. No body wants OSX on their computer. That’s why it’s on less than 3% of the world’s computers. Its ding OS and Apple is a ding company except for their iPods which really has nothing to o with computers anyway. If you want to use OSX go right ahead. But 97.2% of the rest of the world does not! I just proved that Apple's hardware is way over priced garbage. I mean I still can’t believe they are selling their top model with an 6600 video card! They make the worst computers on earth and no one wants OSX. Also I have 5 different XP machines and I have not had a virus in years so that’s a pretty silly thing to get scared over.

[Global Warming]

Originally Posted by evoWALO 97% of the market doesnt even know what OS X is. So how can you say they dont want it? Yes, using last year's model slated to be phased out proves your point. The current iMac's better spec'd & than the PowerMac. Glad you never got viruses but 97% of the planet has to deal with it. Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere LOL I’m not even going to start the age old Apple vs. PC argument again. No body wants OSX on their computer. That’s why it’s on less than 3% of the world’s computers. Its ding OS and Apple is a ding company except for their iPods which really has nothing to o with computers anyway. If you want to use OSX go right ahead. But 97.2% of the rest of the world does not! I just proved that Apple's hardware is way over priced garbage. I mean I still can’t believe they are selling their top model with an 6600 video card! They make the worst computers on earth and no one wants OSX. Also I have 5 different XP machines and I have not had a virus in years so that’s a pretty silly thing to get scared over.

I speced out the iMac too. Just as much of a rip off. It also comes with a really crappy ATI card. Go look at a Dell for the same price of any of the imacs. You will see yet again you are getting way sub standard components in the Mac for a lot more money. I think is so funny that Mac keeps calling them selves the leader in media and then sells computers with such lousy components.

But apparently their marketing scam has worked on you.

[evoWalo]

please show us a the identical spec'd Dell you mentioned. if there is one on Dell's website you wouldn't have a problem posting here. Remember do not use a Pentium processor this time. Those things are being phased out already.

No amount of marketing strategy can ever replace a great product experience. That's why iPods sell so well because of the product experience. Seeing siluets dancing can only motivate people jsut so far.

People use Windows because everyone else uses it or are ignont of better alternatives. Just like why everyone uses petrolium-powered vehicles instead of hydrogen-powered because of cost even if it has the benefit of having little to no impact of the environment.

Time was people dimissed the horseless carriage as really expensive shit that 97% of the world doesnt want. Now though it's a different story.

Dont knock the Mac until you tried it. Todays Macs are way way more different than Macs 5+ years ago.

How did you prove that Apple's hardware is overpriced just based on the video card? Then I should make the wacky assumption that an old stock Ferrari 360 are overpriced because they have overpriced tires.

Apple actually doesnt call them selves the leader of media creation, the press does it for them. When was the last time you read shouts of joy about Windows from PC magazine?

If no one wants OS X then how come their are those who are trying to create a hacked version that works on Dells?

If you think the fear of getting a virus is a silly thing then say that to everyone who has had their pictures, documents, spreadsheets, music and other things deleted due to a silly virus. They'd tell you they wouldnt have mind paying for a machine that doesnt have viruses. those things are irreplaceable.

If you're happy with Windows then good for you but there are others who want a better computing experience that's why they use a Mac or Linux. These people dont mind paying the 10% premium or dont want to pay for Windows license.

Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere LOL I’m not even going to start the age old Apple vs. PC argument again. No body wants OSX on their computer. That’s why it’s on less than 3% of the world’s computers. Its ding OS and Apple is a ding company except for their iPods which really has nothing to o with computers anyway. If you want to use OSX go right ahead. But 97.2% of the rest of the world does not! I just proved that Apple's hardware is way over priced garbage. I mean I still can’t believe they are selling their top model with an 6600 video card! They make the worst computers on earth and no one wants OSX. Also I have 5 different XP machines and I have not had a virus in years so that’s a pretty silly thing to get scared over. I speced out the iMac too. Just as much of a rip off. It also comes with a really crappy ATI card. Go look at a Dell for the same price of any of the imacs. You will see yet again you are getting way sub standard components in the Mac for a lot more money. I think is so funny that Mac keeps calling them selves the leader in media and then sells computers with such lousy components. But apparently their marketing scam has worked on you.

[Global Warming]

Yeah dude I'm not going to go look up a bunch of stuff again. I already did that. Im watching the BOSTON GAME on ESPN 2!!

I really dont care if you beleive it or not. No one is going to buy the new Macs, or that is to say even fewer people will buy them than did the old ones.

Enjoy your Mac.. :roll:

[evoWalo]

Wont or cant find the facts to backup your claim? What you posted is much more expensive than an iMac with slightly better specs sans an outdate processor.

More people will buy Macs because they can run Windows natively at a 10% premium over everyone else.

[Global Warming]

Originally Posted by evoWALO Wont or cant find the facts to backup your claim? What you posted is much more expensive than an iMac with slightly better specs sans an outdate processor. More people will buy Macs because they can run Windows natively at a 10% premium over everyone else.

imac - $1,699.00

20-inch widescreen LCD with 1680x1050 resolution

2.0GHz Intel Core Duo with 2MB shared L2 cache
512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
250GB Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load 8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon X1600 graphics with 128MB GDDR3 memory
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0

Dell - $1,799

Pentium® D Processor 930 with Dual Core Technology (3.0GHz, 800FSB)
256MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GS
1GB ^ Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2 DIMMs
160GB ^ Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/ 8MB cache
20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007FPW Widescreen Digital Flat Panel
Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability

There you go. This Dell is $100 more but you get a faster CPU, MUCH better video card, twice the RAM. Suprisenly you get a bigger HD with the apple but thats it.

And the Core Duo is NOT faster for anything except encoding!! Here are many benchmarks!

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2648&p=6
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...px?i=2648&p=10
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2648&p=9

The "old" Pentium® D Processor 930 with Dual Core Technology (3.0GHz, 800FSB) in the Dell will still smoke this imac.

Back to the game.

[evoWalo]

Based on your Dell's specs here are the glaring difference

No remote control
No built-in Bluetooth
No gigabit ethernet(?)
No built-in webcam
No built-in WiFi

Here's some questions you may want to dig for answers for. What's the physical dimension & weight of the dell? What's the power consumption numbers of the dell? I wont ask what's the software bundle because it's already evident. How many firewire ports does the dell have? How many legacy ports does the dell have?

Benchmarks shows the following chips:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ AMD Athlon 64 X2 2.0GHz/1MB Intel Core Duo T2500 Intel Pentium M 760

All three anandtech links shows that the Core Duo chip is a minute 0-5 points slower than higher rated AMD processors. A 2GHz chip is 0-5 points slower than a 4200+ AMD, like wow I would've never thunk it? In Adobe CS2 benchmark the higher performance rated AMD 4200+ chip is equal to a Core Duo that is rated at 2.0GHz

Where's the Pentium® D Processor 930 with Dual Core Technology (3.0GHz, 800FSB)? AFAIK AMD's Athlon 64 X2 processors smokes Intel's Pentium offering. That's why I have a Athlon 64 X2 sitting downstairs instead of a Pentium D.

Here's Anand's take on the Core Duo

Our initial analysis still holds true, that for a notebook processor, the Core Duo will be nothing short of amazing for professionals. Looking at the performance improvements offered everywhere from media encoding to 3D rendering, you're going to be able to do a lot more on your notebook than you originally thought possible (without resorting to a 12-pound desktop replacement)

BTW Apple doesnt sell 12lbs desktop replacements. Apple desktop replacements range from 5.6-6.8lbs.

We continue to see that the Core Duo can offer, clock for clock, overall performance identical to that of AMD's Athlon 64 X2 - without the use of an on-die memory controller. The only remaining exception at this point appears to be 3D games, where the Athlon 64 X2 continues to do quite well, most likely due to its on-die memory controller.

For a notebook processors that AWESOME. It almost has the same benchmark figures as a higher clocked & higher rated desktop chip.

Intel is quietly shippping 2.33GHz Intel Core Duos to PC makers. I wouldnt be surprised to see Mac notebooks & desktops (sans the Mac Pro) sporting these in a few days time.

People who will buy PowerMacs now are pros who need the fastest PowerPC-based Mac on the planet. Doesnt matter if the Dell is better specd cause these professionals need PowerPC + OS X. They probably make money which is more than I can say about your spec-obsessed gamer.

Here's a Tom's Hardware benchmark showing how "fast" the PEntium D 930 is vs a AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+. Notice how is many many ranks lower than the AMD part? The AMD's core speed is at 2.2Ghz while your Dell's processor core speed is cloced at 3.0GHz.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/01/...rty/page7.html

Faster video cards on a PC primarly benefits gamers. Those who do 3D work are few and far in between. A faster video card benefits all functions of a Mac because the desktop is OpenGL-accelerated. This is being attempted on Windows Vista so Windows wouldnt look like it still belonged before the turn of the century.

[Sir_GT]

Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere Originally Posted by evoWALO Wont or cant find the facts to backup your claim? What you posted is much more expensive than an iMac with slightly better specs sans an outdate processor. More people will buy Macs because they can run Windows natively at a 10% premium over everyone else. imac - $1,699.00 20-inch widescreen LCD with 1680x1050 resolution 2.0GHz Intel Core Duo with 2MB shared L2 cache 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM 250GB Serial ATA hard drive Slot-load 8x double-layer SuperDrive ATI Radeon X1600 graphics with 128MB GDDR3 memory Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0 Dell - $1,799 Pentium® D Processor 930 with Dual Core Technology (3.0GHz, 800FSB) 256MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GS 1GB ^ Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2 DIMMs 160GB ^ Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/ 8MB cache 20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007FPW Widescreen Digital Flat Panel Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability There you go. This Dell is $100 more but you get a faster CPU, MUCH better video card, twice the RAM. Suprisenly you get a bigger HD with the apple but thats it. And the Core Duo is NOT faster for anything except encoding!! Here are many benchmarks! http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2648&p=6 http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...px?i=2648&p=10 http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2648&p=9 The "old" Pentium® D Processor 930 with Dual Core Technology (3.0GHz, 800FSB) in the Dell will still smoke this imac. Back to the game.

Just a question (a serious one), but what do you usually use your hardware for? I'm just curious as it could explain why your preference for PC desktops are practically written in stone.

[dutchmasterflex]

What the hell is goin on in this thread? I thought this was supposed to be about Saturn's dealerships..

evoWALO, you seriously think Apple produces computers for value? Look at their manufacturing costs and their prices..