Chevrolet Corvette ZR1's Official 'Ring Time is 7:26.4

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by Evo8 It's a tuned car - just tuned right at the factory. No surprise it's fast like other tuned cars.

Every engine is a tuned engine then. This engine is bespoke and purpose built, and mass produced. Find me a tuner that does that.

What's more interesting is that the 'vette with its huge 640hp engine for <1500kg of weight, i.e. 425 hp/tonne, did only a bit better than the GTR with measly 275 hp/tonne, and worse than the tuned GTR (V-Spec) with 345 hp/tonne.

What is more interesting is that the ZR1 could easily go faster, but they didn't put the absolute Ring master's in the car, nor tune the suspension for the absolute NS lap... but rather for people who drive their cars. Looking at the video, there are often 1000 rpm left in a gear+ when the driver is shifting... allowing even more time to be "made up" for going all out.

What is more interesting is that the ZR1 is a drivers car, where the driver is responsible for what the car does, not a series of processors with 10,000's of lines of code to allow the car or disallow the car to do what the driver want's the car to do.

What is even more interesting is that it isn't a ringer. Power claimed is power made, was done in higher levels of heat then what Nissan did, wasn't using racing fuel, wasn't using hand-cut slicks, or semi-slicks even... or different engine tune to stock.

And engine power is just a question of tuning, you can have as much as you want; even the small engines of the old Skylines have been tuned to over 1000hp.

Is that why Top Fuel cars are all high displacement supercharged OHV engines, and none are boosted straight 6's, 4's, 10's, 12's ......?

Boosting + higher displacement yields more reliable power How many 4 and 6 cylinders have you heard about being rebuilt when running over 20 psi ?? A much smaller number of high displacement engines

Tuning you describe is solely what are known as "dyno queens"

Well done GM, well done.

[Evo8]

Originally Posted by nthfinity Every engine is a tuned engine then. This engine is bespoke and purpose built, and mass produced. Find me a tuner that does that.

Ralliart.

What is more interesting is that the ZR1 is a drivers car, where the driver is responsible for what the car does, not a series of processors with 10,000's of lines of code to allow the car or disallow the car to do what the driver want's the car to do.

You can look at it two ways. In one way, it means what you imply. In the other, it means ZR1 is only fast thanks to its driver being a professional racer, and the GTR is fast even when you or me drive it.

was done in higher levels of heat then what Nissan did, wasn't using racing fuel, wasn't using hand-cut slicks, or semi-slicks even... or different engine tune to stock.

Any links to the info? Referring to the 7:29 lap, not the old 7:38 one.

Is that why Top Fuel cars are all high displacement supercharged OHV engines, and none are boosted straight 6's, 4's, 10's, 12's ......?

Top fuel cars need thousands of hp. 6000, 7000, 8000. They are crap, crap in every single aspect, except for power. They're primitive because raw power is all that matters.

And they're still slow. My 338 does quarter mile in less than a second. See a dragster match that.

Boosting + higher displacement yields more reliable power How many 4 and 6 cylinders have you heard about being rebuilt when running over 20 psi ??

The 1000-1200hp Skylines are reliable. It's just that they were built by smart people who know how to push the engine just to the limit, without breaking it.

Tuning you describe is solely what are known as "dyno queens"

True. So are all American Muscle Cars - all about power and torque. And even Corvette heavily depends on its horsepower.
Although it's different... Unlike the 1960s muscles, it's not a looker.

A truly fast car is one that goes fast even with little power.

[graywolf624]

and worse than the tuned GTR (V-Spec) with 345 hp/tonne.

When did that happen? I must have missed that one run.. Got link?

was done in higher levels of heat then what Nissan did, wasn't using racing fuel, wasn't using hand-cut slicks, or semi-slicks even... or different engine tune to stock. Any links to the info? Referring to the 7:29 lap, not the old 7:38 one.

Its quite obvious it was. A 7:29 doesnt fit in with every other test of the car.

[nthfinity]

Top fuel car need thousands of hp. 6000, 7000, 8000. They are crap, crap in every single aspect, except for power. They're primitive because raw power is all that matters. And they're still slow. My 338 does quarter mile in less than a second. See a dragster match that.

So..... High tech modern drag engines are primitive? Is that why they are still using them? I thought the goal was to go faster then your oponnent, obviously they must all be redneck retards.

So... Your 338 (WTF is a 338) does 1/4 mile in < 1 second. That means you must average over 900 mph with a flying start. So, you must be either retarded, or pulling sewage out yer' ass.

Nothing on the planet accelerates as hard on land as a Top Fuel car making in excess of 5000 hp for so few pistons/ displacement. On launch, they pull 8 G; and only a modern fighter jet can pull over 8g in a turn.... not from thrust like a Top fuel car.

Also, about those 1200 hp Supras, why is it on the drag strip, that the 700 hp Supra's are often faster then the 1200 hp Supras? They aren't the most reliable, or economic way to get 1200 hp, that is sure. Come to Detroit, and I'll show you real power, raw, primitive, and untamed.... and the guys who know how to work them.

The 1000-1200hp Skylines are reliable. It's just that they were built by smart people who know how to push the engine just to the limit, without breaking it.

Not built by the smart people who make 1500+ in street trim from the big displacement tuners.

Ralliart.

If I wanted a small engine with little throttle responce, and mediocre power, and low bang-per-buck effect, sure... thats not so bad... Put them up on the track, street etc. vs. the 10,000's of LPE, MTI, LG, Heffner, Hennesey, and eons of private shops big displacement american iron, and sportscars... and then we can talk LOL.

You can look at it two ways. In one way, it means what you imply. In the other, it means ZR1 is only fast thanks to its driver being a professional racer, and the GTR is fast even when you or me drive it.

Or you can look at it this way:
The ZR1 easier to cruise faster around the ring then the GTR is going balls-out.
Or, the Porsche mentality:
Don't show them something that is too incredible, as people may die attempting to match it.
Or, the Nissan meathod:
Ringer for the Ring, we did it before, we'll do it again.

[gobs3z]

Originally Posted by Evo8 Radical SR8, Ariel Atom - now these are cars which do have some speed.

You're more than welcome to drive those cars on daily basis; you're stating the obvious...

338 = gun (had to look it up )

[RC45]

Nice - a discussion involving a biased idiot, a Corvette and Vette supporters... and I wasn't anywhere near it..

Why doesnt this Evo8 clown give some details about where he is from - or what his basis of realworld road or track experience is - and specifically where his illinformed and ignorant bias comes from?

Better yet - how old he is, and how soon before he gets a drivers license?

[Evo8]

Originally Posted by nthfinity So..... High tech modern drag engines are primitive? Is that why they are still using them? I thought the goal was to go faster then your oponnent, obviously they must all be redneck retards.

Well, you were wrong. But it's nothing to be ashamed about, we all learn things as we live.

The goal was to go as fast as possible with nothing more than a very primitive engine of a fixed displacement. They are low-tech and old-fashioned, not modern in any way.

Dragster power comes from their extreme focus on building an engine that can only run for a few seconds at a time and a few minutes total, as well as burning special fuel.

So... Your 338 (WTF is a 338) does 1/4 mile in < 1 second. That means you must average over 900 mph with a flying start. So, you must be either retarded, or pulling sewage out yer' ass.

None of the above, actually.
What's more, the 338 is much more practical than any dragster.

Also, about those 1200 hp Supras, why is it on the drag strip, that the 700 hp Supra's are often faster then the 1200 hp Supras?

Skylines, not supras.
And yes, in part you're right. Power is the single most meaningless thing in cars after top speed. Real performance lies not in power, but in how it's put down and handled.

Not built by the smart people who make 1500+ in street trim from the big displacement tuners.

Big achievement, pull 1500 hp out of an 8-liter engine, when others pull 1200 out of a 2.6-liter one.

Put them up on the track, street etc. vs. the 10,000's of LPE, MTI, LG, Heffner, Hennesey, and eons of private shops big displacement american iron, and sportscars...

I'm sorry. You were asking for an example of a mass-produced tuner, not a private shop. I didn't give you some Top Secret, I pointed out a mass-tuner.

Or you can look at it this way: The ZR1 easier to cruise faster around the ring then the GTR is going balls-out.

Not really. It wasn't "cruised", it was driven extremely professionally for performance. It's just that it's hard to grasp from a video. The faster a driver is, the slower he looks on tape.

And GT-R wasn't yet tuned. It had a far lower hp/ton ratio. ZR1 is a tuned car, tuned by factory, but still tuned.

[graywolf624]

The goal was to go as fast as possible with nothing more than a very primitive engine of a fixed displacement. They are low-tech and old-fashioned, not modern in any way.

There is nothing primative or low tech about those engines. If they were their bhp wouldnt have changed in the last 50 years.. Something tells me your not going to win that arguement. That being said your displaying myth number 1.. Your new tech, is still based on something thats just as old a pushrods.

mass-produced tuner, not a private shop

You may want to check your statement at the door. Lightenfelter engineering and hennessey aren't just some shop. They are a mass produced tuner. He didn't even mention Callaway.

And GT-R wasn't yet tuned.

Hows that swamp land in Florida treating you?

True. So are all American Muscle Cars - all about power and torque And even Corvette heavily depends on its horsepower.

The 33xx lbs, independent suspension, carbon fiber body, alluminum and magnesium frame, a drag coeficient of .28 , 14+ inch ceramic brakes, and electro magnetic shocks have nothing at all to do with it.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by Evo8 Well, you were wrong. But it's nothing to be ashamed about, we all learn things as we live. The goal was to go as fast as possible with nothing more than a very primitive engine of a fixed displacement. They are low-tech and old-fashioned, not modern in any way.

Seems you are showing your age, and bias; as my statement is quite far from wrong. Just because you don't understand the absolute upper limit of horsepower winning engines, does not mean I am wrong
Exotic engineering yields competitive results. As with most forms of racing, very high dollar experimentation and research ...

Dragster power comes from their extreme focus on building an engine that can only run for a few seconds at a time and a few minutes total, as well as burning special fuel.

So, if I build any engine to run only 1500-2000 rpm before requiring a rebuild, and put in race gas, I'm automatically as fast as the winning teams/ drivers? Think again.

None of the above, actually. What's more, the 338 is much more practical than any dragster.

"at least 900 mph" which translates to
"at least 1320 feet per second" So, if your 338 doesn't fire at least 1320 fps, it is not going as fast as you stated. So, either you are wrong, or you are wrong.

Skylines, not supras. And yes, in part you're right. Power is the single most meaningless thing in cars after top speed. Real performance lies not in power, but in how it's put down and handled.

Replace "Supra", and insert "skyline" results stay the same. Skyline owner paid more.

Big achievement, pull 1500 hp out of an 8-liter engine, when others pull 1200 out of a 2.6-liter one.

Power to weight, and improving reliability is far more important to the driver then dyno queens you speak of.

I'm sorry. You were asking for an example of a mass-produced tuner, not a private shop. I didn't give you some Top Secret, I pointed out a mass-tuner.

The volume these "private shops" put out far exceed that of Ralliart, many of them do so individually

Not really. It wasn't "cruised", it was driven extremely professionally for performance. It's just that it's hard to grasp from a video. The faster a driver is, the slower he looks on tape.

Is that why it was being short shifted? Short shifting looks like cruising to me... oh, and feels like it too.

And GT-R wasn't yet tuned. It had a far lower hp/ton ratio. ZR1 is a tuned car, tuned by factory, but still tuned.

special ECU tune, weight reduction, and rumors of race fuel, and race tread (the 7:29 run was run with an "optional" tread that will be introduced as a Japan-only tire. )

[nthfinity]

You Tube

You Tube

From the wheel movement and car movements the ZR1 looks to be far more stable and composed than both the Zonda and GTR (low and high speed). I guess thats proof that the much hyped about Magnaride suspension works. Even with the headwind its also interesting to note that the 638hp ZR1 was only able to reach 179mph on the long straight, whereas the 480hp GTR reached 180mph.

At start of straightaway:
ZR1: 6.36
GTR: 6.48 Difference= 12 seconds

To the end of the straight where the bridge crosses
Times:
ZR1: 7.05
GTR: 7.18

Time to run back stretch:
ZR1: 29 seconds (ZR1 reaches near 180mph and holds back)
GTR: 30 seconds

I personally think it is LUDICROUS to think the ZR1 could only put 1 second on the GTR through this contest of flat out acceleration EVEN if the GTR had carried more speed into the straight. Hell, even a "measly" 505HP Z06 has been shown to put atleast that much distance on a GTR from 0-120mph.

It looks like the GTR was doctored with A LOT more boost even if the tires weren't doctored.

[Evo8]

Originally Posted by nthfinity Seems you are showing your age, and bias; as my statement is quite far from wrong. Just because you don't understand the absolute upper limit of horsepower winning engines, does not mean I am wrong Exotic engineering yields competitive results. As with most forms of racing, very high dollar experimentation and research ...

Technically, you are half right, in the part about exotic engineering. And the other half not, because the dragster engines are very primitive. The regulations are strict enough to limit experimentation to little more than tuning.

"at least 900 mph" which translates to "at least 1320 feet per second" So, if your 338 doesn't fire at least 1320 fps, it is not going as fast as you stated. So, either you are wrong, or you are wrong.

Or I am right, which, actually, happens to be the case. Finish your sentences, please, it doesn't take much time.

Although a better use of time would be to learn what the muzzle velocity of .338 is, and how much distance it covers before slowing down to 1320 fps.

Power to weight, and improving reliability is far more important to the driver then dyno queens you speak of.

I'm talking power to weight. 2.6 litre engines are lighter than 8 liter ones.

and eons of private shops big displacement american iron

The volume these "private shops" put out

Sometimes a pair of quotes is the best answer.
---

Is that why it was being short shifted? Short shifting looks like cruising to me... oh, and feels like it too.

No one drives a timed lap intentionally slow. Maybe it's better for this car. Or do you seriously think that if Chevy could post, for instance, a 6:50 time, they would say "Oh, we don't need it", and settle for 7:26?

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by Evo8 Or I am right, which, actually, happens to be the case. Finish your sentences, please, it doesn't take much time. Although a better use of time would be to learn what the muzzle velocity of .338 is, and how much distance it covers before slowing down to 1320 fps.

Which, of course you are wrong, as I put a minimum velocity to indicate 1/4 mile per second. Which, I am right. But any fool can see that.

I'm talking power to weight. 2.6 litre engines are lighter than 8 liter ones.

Whoa, somebody doesn't know about the effect of repetitive wear on cylinder walls, and how thick those have to be to maintain those "extreme" levels of "street boost" Higher pressure equates to more angular motion of the piston within the sleeve. Thicker walls equates to higher weight, higher boost equates to reduced reliability, stronger materials equates to reduced quality control, and over stressed specific points, and joints that isn't measured on a more malleable part.

No one drives a timed lap intentionally slow. Maybe it's better for this car. Or do you seriously think that if Chevy could post, for instance, a 6:50 time, they would say "Oh, we don't need it", and settle for 7:26?

Talk to Walter Rohl, that is exactly what they do at Porsche.He can, and does lap faster... but not for PR releases of lapped times.

Look at the video, and its quite easy to observe a large amount of short shifting; the end result, a slower lap time. .... that is incredibly fast.

[graywolf624]

I'm talking power to weight. 2.6 litre engines are lighter than 8 liter ones.

Wrong there too. You do realize that the ls family of engines, despite being larger in deplacement by 2 liters then the similar bmw engine, is lighter by almost 100 lbs. Its not that simple.
valves have weight after all.

[Evo8]

Originally Posted by nthfinity Which, of course you are wrong, as I put a minimum velocity to indicate 1/4 mile per second. Which, I am right. But any fool can see that.

A fool can. A smarter person can see a different thing.

What I posted was "My 338 does quarter mile in less than a second", which is true. That means I'm not wrong. And so, due to the boolean nature of right and wrong, it happens to mean that I am right.

Don't dodge the point, you're not a viper. I've said that the .338 is faster and more practical than dragsters. Which is true. As anyone with at least one eye can check, I didn't say a world about the MV needed to have a sub-second quarter mile. You did, and you made an assumption that .338 doesn't reach 1320 fps. Sadly (for targets) - or fortunately (for shooters) - it flies much faster than 1320 fps.

Now, I never said you were wrong, until now, when you actually are: as seen above, I'm right, and you've mistakenly stated that I'm not.

Whoa, somebody doesn't know about the effect of repetitive wear on cylinder walls,

He does.
They still last.
And they're still light.

stronger materials equates to reduced quality control,

Now, this is simply not true.

I don't even mention that tuners work on the original block out of the original material.

[You do realize that the ls family of engines, despite being larger in deplacement by 2 liters then the similar bmw engine, is lighter by almost 100 lbs.

Good point. I do. However, it's not the case: the Jap low-displacement engines are still far lighter than the USian big blocks.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by Evo8 A fool can. A smarter person can see a different thing. What I posted was "My 338 does quarter mile in less than a second", which is true. That means I'm not wrong. And so, due to the boolean nature of right and wrong, it happens to mean that I am right. Don't dodge the point, you're not a viper. I've said that the .338 is faster and more practical than dragsters. Which is true. As anyone with at least one eye can check, I didn't say a world about the MV needed to have a sub-second quarter mile. You did, and you made an assumption that .338 doesn't reach 1320 fps. Sadly (for targets) - or fortunately (for shooters) - it flies much faster than 1320 fps. Now, I never said you were wrong, until now, when you actually are: as seen above, I'm right, and you've mistakenly stated that I'm not.

Since we are getting into this, your first post says "338" not ".338"

Now, this is simply not true.

Have you ever worked on compents like Titanium, and exotic alloys of mixed metals? It is true, and considerably reduced quality control to well established, higher volumes produced, and cheaper metals used in production engines. Ever hear of Six Sigma? How about FMEA? Let alone the metallurgy.

I don't even mention that tuners work on the original block out of the original material.

Block, yes.... everything in the block, including the sleeves, no. You are naive to think otherwise.

Good point. I do. However, it's not the case: the Jap low-displacement engines are still far lighter than the USian big blocks.

Who is talking about a big block? We are talking about Small Block architecture.

Soooooooo.... what is the weight of a stock block Skyline 2.6 from the GTR R34?