How much do Web Designers/Programmers/etc. get paid? Help?

[Sir_GT]

Help me out guys. Serious question here.

How much are web designers/programmers/etc. get paid in your area. Just on average?

I've read somewhere that in the US, it's about $25-30 per hour for average designers, and about $50 per hour for the really good ones.

I've got no clue how much programmers charge in the US though.

So... does anybody know? And how much do they charge in the UK, or in Europe, etc.

Honest replies please. (After saying that, I'm sure I won't get any... especially from RC45 and co...)

[graywolf624]

Depends on what type of programmer, what language, location, skill level, ect.
I've seen it vary between about 35,000 and 200000 depending.

[TNT]

starting computer jobs on the low end are around 30-40K US a year. the high end can push 80-100K depending on how good you are and how big the company is. as a graphic design student (almost done) i am looking for around 40-45K starting.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Sir_GT Help me out guys. Serious question here. How much are web designers/programmers/etc. get paid in your area. Just on average? I've read somewhere that in the US, it's about $25-30 per hour for average designers, and about $50 per hour for the really good ones. I've got no clue how much programmers charge in the US though. So... does anybody know? And how much do they charge in the UK, or in Europe, etc. Honest replies please. (After saying that, I'm sure I won't get any... especially from RC45 and co...)

WHy would you say that?

I have 13,000 + posts on this forum.. other than a few jokes here and there, every single one is an honest answer.

But I do find ti funny that if the US is so bad, why is the earning potential of a career here so attractive?

The money too enticing to pass up?

As poited out, hourly rates can be as low as $20/hour for beginners to $100/hour+ for good independants.

Still further skilled specialists may demand $200/hour or more for short period of specialized consulting - either as individuals or outsourced consultants.

At varying times over the last 10 years have billed myself out from about $25/hr (in the eraly days) to as much as $250/hr depending on the client, the economic climate and the length of engagement.

But then again I don't do much web so what do I know...

[Vansquish]

My mom's a programmer and her going rate is $65 an hour...she's considered extremely affordable and for the work she does, she should be earning closer to $80-100 an hour.

[Sir_GT]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by Sir_GT Help me out guys. Serious question here. How much are web designers/programmers/etc. get paid in your area. Just on average? I've read somewhere that in the US, it's about $25-30 per hour for average designers, and about $50 per hour for the really good ones. I've got no clue how much programmers charge in the US though. So... does anybody know? And how much do they charge in the UK, or in Europe, etc. Honest replies please. (After saying that, I'm sure I won't get any... especially from RC45 and co...) WHy would you say that? I have 13,000 + posts on this forum.. other than a few jokes here and there, every single one is an honest answer. But I do find ti funny that if the US is so bad, why is the earning potential of a career here so attractive? The money too enticing to pass up? As poited out, hourly rates can be as low as $20/hour for beginners to $100/hour+ for good independants. Still further skilled specialists may demand $200/hour or more for short period of specialized consulting - either as individuals or outsourced consultants. At varying times over the last 10 years have billed myself out from about $25/hr (in the eraly days) to as much as $250/hr depending on the client, the economic climate and the length of engagement. But then again I don't do much web so what do I know...

Lol. I was making a joke regarding you.

...and let's not turn this into another anti-US thread. I might just end up in Vegas soon, so let's try to keep the anti-US things to a minimum.

Besides, I don't recall bashing the US per se in the past. If anything, I've just been against the way the US gov't conducts some of their foreign policies. I'll leave it at that.

I was asking because I do get quite a few clients asking us to do sites, and sometimes I wonder if I'm over/underquoting them for the work. Cheers for all the replies though, seriously.

Now I just wish I knew how much they charged in the UK/EU.

P.S. On a side note. If you're looking at $45k starting, is that considered good/bad? Or is it sort of like the national average for people starting off?(In the UK IIRC it was around GBP20,000 for somebody fresh out of college). I'm just curious on how the economies differ.

[espen]

I'm not so sure web developlent is a smart career desicion.

For instance, by using freelancers from low cost countries the consultant fellowship I'm part of are able to deliver extremely advanced solutions at pretty much unbeatable prices. Not only are these guys dirt cheap ($12-15), but they do sterling work and put in 12hrs a day. It's only a matter of time before the typical in-house programmer follows the in-house typewriter repairman into history.

Look into IT supported process oriented business reengineering; we use ITIL because it is open and free for pur cutomers to adapt. There is also MOF and the large proprietary protocols like CSC Catalyst and so forth. Currently, the market is booming like crazy here in europe and since ISO20k was approved, government adaptation is imminent. We're currently recruiting left and right

[ldin]

IT field, i am a systems engineer. i do pretty much everything i diblle dablle here and there. my major is security, i have only had two jobs where they paid me to "penetrate" the system. those were big $$$$$, but hard to get. big thing is contracting, i work for a small company. slowly i am building them up. i am hoping in 3-5years i can be CIO...i worked for a crappy company before hand i cannot mention them cause they are big around the world. it really sucked, alot of traveling and shitty pay. with this job for 3-4months i have been doing really well..best part bonuses are cash!

[graywolf624]

.S. On a side note. If you're looking at $45k starting, is that considered good/bad? Or is it sort of like the national average for people starting off?(In the UK IIRC it was around GBP20,000 for somebody fresh out of college). I'm just curious on how the economies differ

45k is about right for someone with a degree under the current market conditions.
National average per capita income is about 40k. Then again it depends on the area.. in the south you can buy a condo for 20k... California you'll need 200000 dollars to buy a paper shack.

For instance, by using freelancers from low cost countries the consultant fellowship I'm part of are able to deliver extremely advanced solutions at pretty much unbeatable prices. Not only are these guys dirt cheap ($12-15), but they do sterling work and put in 12hrs a day. It's only a matter of time before the typical in-house programmer follows the in-house typewriter repairman into history.

I disagree. There is actually currently a large backlash on the outsourcing trend. Without over generalizing you will find that most people from the two main cultures that are taking over programming jobs do not do well with open ended problems. They do very well with scripts, but once you leave the script they are useless. (Has to do with the type of education and thinking that society promotes). At the moment the result is certain key complex areas that are not easily followed from that which came before are returning in house. I wouldn't consider it really the web programmer, but its certainly happening with other things. You just need to be fairly specialized.

I myself lost my generic programmer title to off shoring. That being said I had a specialty in one application where had I not chosen the business route I would have a guarenteed 100k+ job a year for at least the next 10 years (after that the specialty platform might have been replaced). The going rate for contractors in that specialty was 200 dollars an hour. I chose to change careers into business since I was bored of programming, but it certainly isn't as dire as you would think.

*And no that doesn't mean I make 100k a year now. I only wish.

[TNT]

yeah for no real work exp. that would be right where I (art school grad) should be at if not higher. but the longer you are in the field the better. mainly b/c you know trends and have clients.

[Sir_GT]

Originally Posted by espen I'm not so sure web developlent is a smart career desicion. For instance, by using freelancers from low cost countries the consultant fellowship I'm part of are able to deliver extremely advanced solutions at pretty much unbeatable prices. Not only are these guys dirt cheap ($12-15), but they do sterling work and put in 12hrs a day. It's only a matter of time before the typical in-house programmer follows the in-house typewriter repairman into history. Look into IT supported process oriented business reengineering; we use ITIL because it is open and free for pur cutomers to adapt. There is also MOF and the large proprietary protocols like CSC Catalyst and so forth. Currently, the market is booming like crazy here in europe and since ISO20k was approved, government adaptation is imminent. We're currently recruiting left and right

I do consultancy work for an outsourcing company here, and just as graywolf said, they're actually having a very difficult time looking for new clients now. There really is a lot of backlash with regards to outsourcing, especially when the clients are from the US.

(I'm not being anti-US. All I'm saying is that US-based clients are preferring to use local/in-house people more and more, simply because there's less of a headache with regards to all aspects. Perfectly understandable.)

Fortunately, everybody is still open to off-site freelancers like myself.

Please educate me (or us) with regards to ITIL, MOF, and CSC. I honestly don't think I've heard of these before.

graywold624: Cheers for the answers. I'm assuming it's fairly relative though; i.e. you can only charge so much if you're based in an area with a lower cost of living, and you can charge significantly more if you live in say, California.

TNT: I guess it's the same everywhere though, isn't it? (building up clients et al).

[GT-R_R34]

for what i'm seeing i made a bad career choice.

[Sir_GT]

Originally Posted by GT-R_R34 for what i'm seeing i made a bad career choice.

There's always time.

I'm actually fairly green on the "pro/consultant" market. I took up something else in University, learned (through it) how to spot opportunities, and then realized afterwards that my "hobby" would've made me more money.

So now I'm catching up.

[espen]

ITIL and MOF are frameworks that give references on how to design, organize and run an organization efficiently through process orientation - i.e. first designing good processes, then designing the IT systems that enable these processes to work, and then implementing them.

ITIL (i.e. the IT Infrastructure Library > http://www.itsmf.org/) is a framework that details a "best practice" based and thoroughly coherent approach to IT service management. ITIL provides a cohesive set of best practice processes, drawn from the public and private sectors internationally. There is a comprehensive certifications scheme, handled by independent training organisations, as well as implementation and assessment tools. MOF is Microsofts take on ITIL, which is not as good as ITIL because ITIL evolves constantly - but integrates beautifully with off-shelf Microsoft solutions.

A good starting point is breaking down the barrier between the IT department and the rest of the business. IT people often seem to think they are importent in their own right, whereas from a process viewpoint they are just the janitors that keep up the flow of resources through the organization. IT systems are increasingly common, to the point where only the most specialized guys maintain a value that can justify paying them "IT salaries".

As for the whole outsourcing and offshoring things; we develop the specification and have the system developed. Then we do intricate testing to ensure we get what we designed. In our experinece, the quality delivered by "our" freelancers is very good, matching that delivered by domestic specialists. It is usually massive improvement over the performance of in-house programmers, which we sometimes have to work with. Overall, I tend to recommend hiering the best qualified developer with the best track reccord, and then pay less attention to wether he's in-hose or a freelancer out of Belarus or Poland.

CSC is a huge company that does, among other things, outsourcing. I worked for them for a while, but it's methodology is too big and slow for my liking. CSC only wants the biggest contracts - I enjoy working for companies with 50 - 500 employees more.

[Sir_GT]

Originally Posted by mrmojo77 Just a guess that they make about 2300€ /month, if you're quite recently graduated. More experienced and skilled you are, more you can ask for salary.

Hmm... Not that far off the USD price then is it? (Although yes, I understand that the value is higher).

Looks like I'll be asking for a higher fee then.