American cars in the UK?British cars in the US?etc.Thoughts?

[Sir_GT]

Hilarious. Calling Aston Martin "American". Bloody priceless.

To answer your question, yes I have been to America. I lived in New York for quite a while. Lived, as opposed to visited.

Seriously, you're completely missing the point. We know the X-type is a Ford Mondeo in a suit. We know what the S-type really is. It probably explains why even the British seemingly refuse to buy Jaguars, and instead choose the German marques. Regardless of that, parts sharing does not define the car.

By your logic, that would mean that Mercedes-Benz is American. Why? Because it's called DaimlerChrysler. Of course, we could flip that over, and say that Chryslers are German. Why? Because the 300C is an old E-class in a drug dealer suit, and the Crossfire is a homosexual version of an old SLK.

Gee... imagine that? Chrysler... German?

:roll:

By your same logic, it would also mean that the Oxfordshire-built Mini's are German. Why? Because BMW owns them. According to you, it doesn't matter that they're all built by Brits, in Britain, in a British factory, and all the parts, including the engine, are either built here or sourced here. It also doesn't matter that the chap who runs Mini is an Englishman.

Imagine that? English-built, English-run, English-powered... but according to you, it's still a GERMAN Mini.

Lol. I'm enjoying this. Let's see how far your twisted logic can stretch...

What about Subaru? Now that they're somewhat part of GM, they're now American according to your logic? Or at least half-American, right? It doesn't matter that almost all the R&D work is done either in Japan or here at Prodrive in the UK, because it's all AMERICAN MONEY behind them.

Now... since Subaru is doing a bit of a joint product run with Saab, that would mean that Saab is now half-swedish, half-Japanese right? Oh, but wait, according to your logic, because GM owns Saab, they're no longer swedish! They're in fact, American!

Hold on... now that DaimlerChrysler owns Dodge and Mitsubishi, doesn't that make them German???

Blimey... who would've thought? A GERMAN Dodge Viper?! Even better, a GERMAN Mitsubishi Evo!!!

Imagine the reaction to the people over at Texas after they've been told that they can now buy a GERMAN Dodge Ram, or a GERMAN Dodge Charger, or a GERMAN Dodge Durango... or... to top it all off... a GERMAN Dodge Neon!!!



Wait... that means, according to your logic, Nissan and Infinity are now FRENCH CARS! Why? Because they've been bought out by Renault! Imagine that? Now the Japanese get to drive their very own FRENCH Nissan Skyline R35 GT-R!!! Vive l'france!



I've got tears in my eyes from laughing.

Ever heard of a company called Morgan? If not, look them up. They're based in the UK... but according to your logic, because BMW supplies them with pretty much everything, they would be German. :roll:

Cheers mate. Also, if you're looking for an idiot, you need not search far. All you have to do is stare at a mirror, and you'll find one with his foot shoved so far down his throat, he's pretty much kicked his own arse.

[T-Bird]

well Daimler/Chrysler is technically a Merger not a buy out so in fact it's neither German or American it's a fucking half breed of poorly built cars on both ends. Yes they both make fun bad ass cars but quality on both ends is horrible. And Everyone I talk to including the guys at the dealers all call the new Mini's BMW's. And I wouldn't call the Crossfire the Homosexual version since the old SLK was a fucking chicks car no matter what you say, I drove one around for a couple days and felt wierd in it. Every one and I mean everyone I know calls the new Saab a Subaru. The Nissans are French get over it! And yes all the sister companies do have to get approval from the Parent company for big things like spending Millions on developing a new car because no one want's to get introuble. Also back to the question does it matter where the car is built? it sure sounds like you are using that logic. If so then Imprezas are American, aswell as BMW SUVs and the Z4, Quite a few Mercs aswell. If you want to go there then blame the Canadians and Mexicans on the quality of SOME of the American cars. I take it you haven't actually been in a NEW American lately the quality is starting to rise. Oh and alot of Foreign cars are doing their R&D work in the states lately even you beloved Germans and English and it seems to be that the new F430 was spotted this side of the pond waay before it's release. Get it through your head that there is NOT a SINGLE car company that is purely themselves anymore for fucks sake half the fucking cars out there use American parts, And you'll be hard pressed to find a car that doesn't have some Japanese in it or German in it, Hell my car has German, Japanese, and Italian parts on it among others and it *GASP* a FORD!

[Sir_GT]

:roll:

I honestly can't be bothered to repeat myself all over again, but I will one last time, for all the laymen to understand.

If you read my first post regarding this subject, I merely pointed out that there still is a difference between the European built cars, and the ones built by the sister arms in America, regardless of who the parent company is.

It wasn't me who started all this "it doesn't matter where it's built, it's still American" bull. I was simply taking the piss on that ridiculous logic.

Also, my logic has nothing to do where the cars are built, nor where the materials are sourced.

My argument was that the combination of the management, the workforce (to some extent), and the products produced (and their purpose) define the brand's "country of reference", if you may call it that, which is part of the overall unique characteristics of each car.

Aston Martin will always be English. It doesn't matter if the switches come from Ford, or the boss is a German named Ulrich Bez. The cars are built, engineered, and designed by English blokes. The majority are sold to the English public. They were designed FOR the UK. The rest of the world simply benefits.

I mean, is it that difficult to understand? The company ORIGINATED in the UK. The brand was established here. They're still being built here.

It's the exact same logic why Ford will always be American, no matter where they're built or who runs the company. Ford cars are built in Thailand... does it make those Ford cars Thai? Not in a million years.

Likewise, Porsche will always be German. It doesn't matter that the interior is assembled from parts sourced from America, or that a large percentage of the mechanicals are sourced from Italy.

The company was established in Germany, by a German, who was employed by Hitler, during the Nazi period. I mean... how German can you get???

That same logic applies to the Mini. Created and engineered by an Englishman, built in the UK, owned by a host of British companies, and then eventually bought by a German car company, that kept the manufacturing of the cars in the UK, to be built by people from the UK, and sold to people in the UK.

The Mini will always be English. Regardless if the owners are German, American, French, or Canadian.



I swear, it's unbelievable how certain Americans convince themselves that everything belongs to their country. I love the USA, and I have a deep and personal attachment to it, but please stop with all the bull.

Aston Martin, Jaguar, and Land Rover will NEVER be American, no matter how much you people wish they were. Just like how Chelsea, Manchester United, and Arsenal will NEVER be anything other than English football clubs.

It is, as you say, a no-brainer.





That's it. I'm done. I've said all of what I needed to say. Ciao.

[T-Bird]

OK I'll let you have your 5 seconds of glory but you messed up big time on one point the new Astons are being designed by a German that lives in America in charge of one of Ford's deign firms in California...
Henrik Fisker
To Quote him:

Aston Martin's next project is the launch of the AMV8, which we're excited about. Ford's next project for me is working on next year's show cars for the Detroit Show.

so Ford has no influence on the Aston Designer huh?

[Global Warming]

"Aston Martin will always be English. It doesn't matter if the switches come from Ford, or the boss is a German named Ulrich Bez. The cars are built, engineered, and designed by English blokes. The majority are sold to the English public. They were designed FOR the UK. The rest of the world simply benefits.

I mean, is it that difficult to understand? The company ORIGINATED in the UK. The brand was established here. They're still being built here."

Yes the brand originated in the UK and was so bad at making cars while also making money that the for all practical purposes went bankrupt. That original British company is gone!! GONE! Astin Martin is building cars with SOME of the original design philosophies intact and that is it! Astin Martin is now an American car company. And I hate to rain on your delusions of grandeur but Britain does not have a profitable enough car market for anything to be designed just for it!! You can buy Astin Martins in the USA and all over the world. Ford is designing Astin Martins to sell to people in that market everywhere!!! Not just the UK!

Sorry you just can’t admit it but Astin Martin is an American company and has been for years! The British company you wish it still was went belly up years ago and alone with it its unprofitable, design, manufacturing, and marketing practices have been completely change and revamped by Americans. Every aspect of Astin Martin is owen, operated, and controled by Americans.

[Sir_GT]

T-Bird: Henrik Fisker is no longer associated with Aston Martin or Ford. Where he lives has no influence over the "Britishness" of Aston Martin. BMW, Mini, and Nissan all have design studios in America, and Nissan has one in the UK. That doesn't make those brands American, nor does it make Nissan English in any way.

GH: I'm not the one who has delusions of grandeur. Until Aston Martin moves their headquarters, and the majority of their operations to America, they will always be a British brand, no matter how hard you wish. Financial status does not make a difference.

Lamborghini will always be Italian, so will Bugatti, and so will Ferrari, regardless of who owns them.

It is the same with Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, and Suzuki. They will always be Japanese, no matter who owns them.

Aston Martin, Land Rover, Mini, Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Morgan, Lotus, and Jensen will always be British, no matter who owns them.

In the same vein, Ford, Chrysler, Dodge, GM, Chevrolet, and Buick will always be American, no matter who owns them.

If you want to personify it: An American will always be an American, regardless of which country he resides in, or makes his living in. An Englishman will always be an Englishman, regardless of which country he resides, or makes his living in.

The New York Knicks will always be an American Basketball team, regardless of who owns them. The New York Yankees will always be an American Baseball team, no matter who owns them.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: It's a no-brainer.

[Global Warming]

Originally Posted by Sir_GT T-Bird: Henrik Fisker is no longer associated with Aston Martin or Ford. Where he lives has no influence over the "Britishness" of Aston Martin. BMW, Mini, and Nissan all have design studios in America, and Nissan has one in the UK. That doesn't make those brands American, nor does it make Nissan English in any way. GH: I'm not the one who has delusions of grandeur. Until Aston Martin moves their headquarters, and the majority of their operations to America, they will always be a British brand, no matter how hard you wish. Financial status does not make a difference. Lamborghini will always be Italian, so will Bugatti, and so will Ferrari, regardless of who owns them. It is the same with Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, and Suzuki. They will always be Japanese, no matter who owns them. Aston Martin, Land Rover, Mini, Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Morgan, Lotus, and Jensen will always be British, no matter who owns them. In the same vein, Ford, Chrysler, Dodge, GM, Chevrolet, and Buick will always be American, no matter who owns them. If you want to personify it: An American will always be an American, regardless of which country he resides in, or makes his living in. An Englishman will always be an Englishman, regardless of which country he resides, or makes his living in. The New York Knicks will always be an American Basketball team, regardless of who owns them. The New York Yankees will always be an American Baseball team, no matter who owns them. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: It's a no-brainer.

Dude you are nuts! I hope you get a Jag or astin that was made before 1989 because all the cars made by our companies since then are American. Also there are so many new Mini coopers over here and NO ONE thinks of them as British! That is really funny. They are BMWs. I does not matter where a car is made, that is irrelevant. But that is the only thing you have left to hold onto. Astin Martin, Jag, and Land Rover ARE American companies and American cars. The one car you can say is still British is the Noble because it is still a British company. Too bad the use Ford engines though....

I will leave you alone now though. It has to be rough when your country has sold out to everyone on the planet. I was trying to be nice by not bringing up Man U LOL. We even have your famous London Bridge!!
If it will make people like you still want to buy our cars you can continue to believe they are still British just because they are built there.

And NO if the Yankees were bought by Sony they would NOT be an American team anymore. They would be a Japanese team that plays in NYC. Just as Astin Martin is an American car built in the UK.

[RC45]

Back on topic:

I have yet to come across a British car that can run with me through the back roads... oh yeah that's right - because the only British cars sold here are SUVs and pointless luxo-sedans.

The day of the British sports car is long gone.

Poof.....

Oh - before anyone goes off about the Ultima's etc - the problem is that they couldn't build them to meet the road-worth requirments in any 1st world country - so they don't count - and that's why you don't see em on the roads.

So - in closing - we have deduced that the British car industry is DEAD!

And thank God for that - because other than a couple of mid 60's Rovers and the Mini - the world is a better place now that Leylands, Morris Minor's and British designed Fords no longer pollute the earth..

[Sir_GT]

Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere I will leave you alone now though. It has to be rough when your country has sold out to everyone on the planet. I was trying to be nice by not bringing up Man U LOL. We even have your famous London Bridge!! If it will make people like you still want to buy our cars you can continue to believe they are still British just because they are built there.

It's a very popular fact over here that you people bought the wrong bridge.

Not only that, but you people decided to put it in the middle of the desert.

:roll:

And NO if the Yankees were bought by Sony they would NOT be an American team anymore. They would be a Japanese team that plays in NYC. Just as Astin Martin is an American car built in the UK.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.

I give up. This is like trying to explain the birds and the bees to dumb and dumber.

RC45: I'm not even going to start with you. You're not even on topic.

[Global Warming]

Hey man,
oh I mean mate,

You are the one that started this stupid thread in the first place. You tried to disguise and sugar coat it with a few compliments about Shelby. But this thread was a recipe for American car bashing for the get go and you know it! You were just too stupid to reliese that if you start bashing American cars you shoot yourself in the foot. Because Britain does not have any auto makers left. “We people” or other people in other countries own, operate, and design them all now.

"First off, this is not a flame thread."

Translation = "I know this is a controversial subject and I know I have a very strong one sided opinion about it and want to try to nicely bash American cars"

What I hate most about this is how much I love the UK. I would rather live in England right now than the USA because of Bush. But the fact that I now know there are such total assholes like you over there makes the thought less appealing.

[Sir_GT]

Originally Posted by Global Hemisphere Hey man, oh I mean mate, You are the one that started this stupid thread in the first place. You tried to disguise and sugar coat it with a few compliments about Shelby. But this thread was a recipe for American car bashing for the get go and you know it! You were just too stupid to reliese that if you start bashing American cars you shoot yourself in the foot. Because Britain does not have any auto makers left. “We people” or other people in other countries own, operate, and design them all now. "First off, this is not a flame thread." Translation = "I know this is a controversial subject and I know I have a very strong one sided opinion about it and want to try to nicely bash American cars" What I hate most about this is how much I love the UK. I would rather live in England right now than the USA because of Bush. But the fact that I now know there are such total assholes like you over there makes the thought less appealing.

I started it???

Read my original post! I'm a big fan of American cars! I love the Mustang, I love the Dodge RAM, I was the one who said that American cars are cool! I even said I would be hard pressed to choose between a Shelby GT500 and an M3!!!

YOU, dear sir, were the one that brought up this whole "America owns everything" bullcrap! You're the one that brought up the whole "Ford is laughing all the way to the bank" business! Don't start throwing shit around and then place the blame on me. I merely disagreed with you when I joined in on that conversation, but it was you who started getting personal about it when I did.

Then you say I'm the asshole? You're not exactly the budding opposite of the negative American stereotype mate.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Sir_GT RC45: I'm not even going to start with you. You're not even on topic.

Actually, not only am I on topic - I have a lot more experience than you can imagine, considering for about 25 years - for some odd reason many South Africans had love affairs with one crap British car after another - and I have had a chance to suffer through them all - from Hillman Vogues, to Cortinas of various shapes and forms, Anglias, Firenzas and a myriad of Morris cars.

All rusted to pieces - broke down on a whim and had the electrical reliability, of well a British car..

So - again - thankfully the British auto industry is dead and buried.

American cars in the UK actually go toe to toe with them and better them - the only "British" cars left, are owned by foreigners and built to better standards..

As a 24 year young bloke you really have no idea how pathetic the British auto industry was - apart from the odd sports car, a luxo sedan here or there - and a few cross-channel high performance hybrids that needed real engines to go fast - the British car pretty much sucks

Now - that's not to say the American situation is any better - which really leaves the Germans as the only ones to build a large number of decent all-round cars.

[bmwdakias]

I observed that a lot of people, even i do it sometimes quote JC as if he is a reliable source. Actually i believe that he is rather prejudiced, especially sometimes with american cars and he just promotes cars that he likes. What i want to say is that although i watch top gear and quite often buy the magazine too its only because he has a rather amusing way of test driving cars and not because i consider him reliable.