Mercedes and McLaren on the rocks - CAR magazine Feb issue

[Sir_GT]

IIRC, Ilmore produces the parts that Mercedes and McLaren use to build the F1 cars, but does not actually build the engines or the cars themselves.

[DeMoN]

Man it would be awesome that after so many years, the car to beat the McLaren F1 would be another McLaren BMW

[Sir_GT]

Originally Posted by everso i told you guys this months ago, in my "insider information" post

Well, then you've just got the confirmation you might have needed.

[ikon2003]

Originally Posted by mindgam3 Merecedes own 40% of mclaren (TAG and Ron Dennis make up the other 60%) so merecedes has an overwhelming opinion on everything mclaren does..... My opinion is that they shouldnt have joined forces in the first place..... Bearing in mind, Ilmor produce the F1 engines, (merecedes just owns and brands them) and have only made the SLR a worse car than it shoul have been, i dont see how mercedes actually help McLaren other than providing a bit of money which mclaren are hardly short of anyway....

Nice info - first time i've heard it.

Any idea what the shareholders looked like when the F1 came out?

[findleybeast]

I think now would actually be a very opportune time for McLaren to split from Mercedes. After the run of SLRs is finished, McLaren is left with a state-of-the-art factory at its disposal and no cars to produce. If they sever ties with Mercedes they could look into producing their own bespoke supercar and foster new relationships with BMW and the like...

[mindgam3]

Originally Posted by Sir_GT IIRC, Ilmore produces the parts that Mercedes and McLaren use to build the F1 cars, but does not actually build the engines or the cars themselves.

Nope, Ilmor produce the actual engines.

Mercedes own Ilmor and the engines are branded Mercedes-Ilmor but Ilmor are the actual company that build the engines

[mindgam3]

Originally Posted by ikon2003 Originally Posted by mindgam3 Merecedes own 40% of mclaren (TAG and Ron Dennis make up the other 60%) so merecedes has an overwhelming opinion on everything mclaren does..... My opinion is that they shouldnt have joined forces in the first place..... Bearing in mind, Ilmor produce the F1 engines, (merecedes just owns and brands them) and have only made the SLR a worse car than it shoul have been, i dont see how mercedes actually help McLaren other than providing a bit of money which mclaren are hardly short of anyway.... Nice info - first time i've heard it. Any idea what the shareholders looked like when the F1 came out?

Not sure, i'm sure mercedes didnt have a share back then, but TAG may have done....

[Bilal786]

I don't understand. How stupid does one have to be? Why do BMW fans think they made the F1 with Mclaren?

HONDA was originally chosen to power the F1. It was just by chance, that they were unable to, and BMW had a 6.0 V12, tuned to produce 627hp. Murray originally wanted 550hp, but the engine came out heavier than expected but with 627hp.

If Mclaren and Merc split, you really think Mercedes will leave their 200mil factory to Mclaren? Where is Mclaren going to get the funding to build its own car? The F1 was a legendary car but there will never be anbother pure car. financially, it was a flop, and now with severed Merc contacts, the Mac boys are going to use a factory they don't own with money they don't have to build an F1 successor? Apparently, BMW will help them?

BMW ONLY supplied the engine, they didn't make the car. AMG can easily supply an engine to Mclaren if and when they produce another car. They already do so to Laraki and Pagani.

If Mac and Merc split, the former will come off worse. Mercedes just wanted the Mclaren brand name and make it a satellite within the DCX empire like AMG/Maybach/Smart. As far as the notion of Mac making a car with BMW, IMO it is near impossible and ludicrous without a proper BMW investment, unlikely anytime soon.

[mindgam3]

Originally Posted by Bilal786 If Mclaren and Merc split, you really think Mercedes will leave their 200mil factory to Mclaren? Where is Mclaren going to get the funding to build its own car? The F1 was a legendary car but there will never be anbother pure car. financially, it was a flop, and now with severed Merc contacts, the Mac boys are going to use a factory they don't own with money they don't have to build an F1 successor? Apparently, BMW will help them? BMW ONLY supplied the engine, they didn't make the car. AMG can easily supply an engine to Mclaren if and when they produce another car. They already do so to Laraki and Pagani. If Mac and Merc split, the former will come off worse. Mercedes just wanted the Mclaren brand name and make it a satellite within the DCX empire like AMG/Maybach/Smart. As far as the notion of Mac making a car with BMW, IMO it is near impossible and ludicrous without a proper BMW investment, unlikely anytime soon.

Firstly, it's not mercedes factory, its mclarens.....

Mclaren were financially stable before mercedes aquired 40% and would still be stable if merc sold there share....

Merc only really has a say in Mclaren cars, there are 5 other subsidaries of mclaren group that all make money.

The mclaren HQ houses all of these subsidaries, not just the SLR production line.

Mclaren could have used a different engine supplier to make the SLR. Not many other companies have the designers, or composite manufacuring facilities that mclaren have....

True, if they split, mclaren would come off worse, but they would easily survive. But its very unlikely in the first place as merc has such a big share and they wouldnt want to loose mclaren, if they did, they wouldnt be able to manufacture a decent rival supercar.

[findleybeast]

I think people like BMW's relationship with McLaren so much because, even though they only provided the engine, the engine was truly a masterpiece. It was good timing on McLaren's part to request an engine of course since BMW had already started developing a V12 for an M8 that never got released.

I think people just want to see the partnership that spawned the iconic F1 be reforged to produce another supercar. Plus, even McLaren has said it would rather work with BMW, but Mercedes was a financial decision

[mindgam3]

I think BMW has a car building philosophy much more similar to mclarens than mercedes does to mclaren too

[Sir_GT]

Originally Posted by Bilal786 I don't understand. How stupid does one have to be? Why do BMW fans think they made the F1 with Mclaren?

Maybe its because Gordon Murray himself said that BMW were better engine builders?

Besides, as mindgam3 clearyly pointed out, McLaren's HQ here in Woking (which isn't far from me) has several subsidiaries. One of which, is the carbon composite manufacturing one. McLaren are one of the best when it comes to performance composites, so they will always have business anyway.

mindgam3: Cheers for pointing that out to me. I was under the impression that Mercedes had only recently purchased Ilmore, which is why I thought that Ilmore were merely the parts supplier.

[mindgam3]

Indeed, mclaren have provided various composite components for space probes etc, that alon could keep them running. As with all F1 teams, mclaren's will be self financing, ie the sponsorship will pay for the entire running of the team, all the other subsidaries will be making money.....