American cars and curves.

[he7lius]

I always heard the guys on Top Gear saying that american cars hate curves and i remember JC saying on the GT40 review that americans "never made a car that goes around corners properly".

Where and when this idea started and why??

[TT]

Flame suit ready



It all started probably when every american car had soft suspensions and a chassis tuned for long highway hauling

it's what we call a cliché now though, since many present cars have quite a good handling even compared to European or Japanese standard

So there is no need guys for the old usual Europ vs US war please

[SilviaEvo]

Dodge Charger cant turn but haul ass on straights!

[graywolf624]

The corvette, camaro, and firebird has almost always been the lone exception (till the viper ect). Clarkson didnt like the vette(and wouldnt like the maro) because while they almost always handled well(ignoring second gen maros and before) they also were so stiff that there was no driver comfort.

[RC45]

..it's always so funny to these threads.... let's see a mnodel comaprison... "bad handeling compared to what...?"

A 1980 Golf I diesel 1300 vs similar period Corvette or a similar period Chevy Caprice?

I mean while a 198911 was a failry decent car overall - the 1980 Golf 1300 sucked donkey balls - just like the 1980 Chevy Caprice.

Don't even try talk abouit the 1980 Ford Escort - or the 1980 1100cc Fiat etc etc.

Let's fast forward to 2004 - a base Golf III sucks just as badly as a base Chevy Malibu Maxx... I have recently compared the 2.

Now let's compare the 2004 911 Turbo and the 2004 Z06... pretty close comparison isn't it.

The Europeans ALWAYS compare Euro-sporty cars against American comfy-cruisers of entry level cheap crap.

Let's go look at a 1955 V8 1955 Chevy sedan vs a 1955 Opel Kapitan/Rekord - you will be shocked to know by how far the 1955 Chevy would obliterate the the Opel.

In 1/4 mile, top end and handeling.

Anyway - pointless argument.

[SilviaEvo]

hahaha

very pointless but whats this about the Porsche and the Z06? i think the Z06 would die against the Turbo. but there is that 50 something thousand above the Z06 for a little bit more performance.

pretty pointless though

[SFDMALEX]

Americans are fat!
American cars cant turn!
European chicks are skinny!
French are pussies!


All of those are just extremly generalized statements. Are they necesseraly true? No.

Dont forget that they make less cars in entire America then they do in Europe so the possibility of finding more good handling cars in Europe is bigger.

anyway pointless argument. Dont wanna get in it....I cant find my flame suit.

[hemi_fan]

ah geez... not this arguement again.

[AlienDB7]

A snippet from Auto Motor und Sport's (yes, a German magazine) review on the Caddy XLR:

This luxury roadster coupé with its 4.6 liter V8 and 326 horsepower is out to conquer territory from its arch rival the Mercedes SL, for instance with a price tag of 89 thousand Euros in Germany. This car offers everything you could want from an American sports car, everything and a bit more.The Cadillac XLR astonishes with its excellent chassis tuning and impeccable traction, even by European standards. The handling of this car that peaks at a speed of 250 kilometers per hour profits from an aluminum chassis with a well balanced drive shaft distribution, a wide track and a low center of gravity. Precision steering rounds off the driving fun.

Yes, American cars can handle, even the Germans think so. Generally, AMS is pretty objective and thorough on their reviews so I trust what they say.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by SilviaEvo hahaha very pointless but whats this about the Porsche and the Z06? i think the Z06 would die against the Turbo. but there is that 50 something thousand above the Z06 for a little bit more performance. pretty pointless though

Oh boy. ... not another person who didn't know the Z06 lapped Nurburgring in 7'56"...

[graywolf624]

stiff is not meaning the same as good handling.........

I know.. but skidpad wise and slalom wise the corvette and camaro are traditionally the best handling in their price range or below. The stiff is in terms of nvh and handling over bumps. The difference between track driving and street driving. (note this discludes kit cars and things like the elise.. which are a little different..) Id take a vette over a golf, escort, ect of a similar year any day as long as we are on smooth race track.


Ill take a stock 80s corvette or camaro against a similar priced car of the same year.. Very few cars could beat them. By 1988 the camaro was pulling .91 on the skidpad.

Everyone here must remember, handling on the street is different then handling on the track. On the track, the stiffer suspension is king. On the street.. you dont want that stiffer suspension. You dont want soft either, but you get the picture.
As for suspension design I can attest that both the camaro and vette were quite sophisticated for their time. (camaros 3rd and 4th gen versus their respected years competition) (corvette versus there years respected competition)

In the choice between a late 80s rx7 for instance and a late 80s vette.. On the race track the vette would eat the rx7 for breakfast stock.. Its when you start dealing with bumps that the vettes stiff suspension doesnt deal well. So if we were driving around the canyons the vette wouldnt be the best option. Its a question of usage.

[topgeartom]

Yes, it's a pointless argument but here's my two penneth' worth anyway.

A 911 TURBO would murder any corvette ever made, or for that matter, that will ever be made.

I think America is on the right track with their cars now, but thats only very recently, the new caddy is on the mark apparently, but just look at the STS compared to an equivalent model in Europe, say the BMW 7 series:

STS + corner = :cry:

745i + corner =

[hemi_fan]

Originally Posted by topgeartom Yes, it's a pointless argument but here's my two penneth' worth anyway. A 911 TURBO would murder any corvette ever made, or for that matter, that will ever be made. I think America is on the right track with their cars now, but thats only very recently, the new caddy is on the mark apparently, but just look at the STS compared to an equivalent model in Europe, say the BMW 7 series: STS + corner = :cry: 745i + corner =

Yeah, but the STS was a terrible car... ur comparing apples to oranges here. Why not compare the CTS to say a 3-series or even 5 or 7... then how do they handle You cant selectively pick a bad handling car from one side of the ocean, and a good one from the other... be fair.

[he7lius]

Originally Posted by TT So there is no need guys for the old usual Europ vs US war please

I don't want to create a war, but i was very curious about when it all started.

I'm not making a affirmation.

But it's funny to see how people start arguing about something which i thought it would be easy to explain.

[topgeartom]

Originally Posted by hemi_fan Originally Posted by topgeartom Yes, it's a pointless argument but here's my two penneth' worth anyway. A 911 TURBO would murder any corvette ever made, or for that matter, that will ever be made. I think America is on the right track with their cars now, but thats only very recently, the new caddy is on the mark apparently, but just look at the STS compared to an equivalent model in Europe, say the BMW 7 series: STS + corner = :cry: 745i + corner = Yeah, but the STS was a terrible car... ur comparing apples to oranges here. Why not compare the CTS to say a 3-series or even 5 or 7... then how do they handle You cant selectively pick a bad handling car from one side of the ocean, and a good one from the other... be fair.

I am being fair. And i am talking about the old style 7 not the bangeld one. When the STS was in production, the 7 was an equivalent over here - both big luxury cruisers aimed at the same buyer.

Even you admit that the STS was a terrible car.

Like i said, it seems you boys are now heading in the right direction (CTS) but even then, a 3 series would walk all over it in the corners.

So what do you think is a fair comparison to a car like the '97 535i my family owns? I bet your hard-pushed to find a similarly good all rounder.