Viper tuned by Mclaren

[bmagni]

so the mule spotted is supposed thats gonna be a Viper tuned by no other than McLaren.

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/2615/bilde9va.th.jpg (http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bilde9va.jpg) http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/4827/bilde9nm.th.jpg (http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bilde9nm.jpg) http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7102/bilde13nc.th.jpg (http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bilde13nc.jpg)

A hidden gem tucked away in the basement at January’s Detroit auto show was the Diamondback Viper coupe, an American Specialty Cars concept featuring a 615-hp V10 tuned by McLaren Performance Technologies.

ASC broadly winked when asked if it planned to build the car, noting the company was already aware of potential problems with the concept’s 10 air intakes poking up through the lightweight carbon fiber hood (ASC also used carbon fiber for the roof, decklid and rocker panels, shaving 85 pounds off the concept’s curb weight).

It looks like they’ve tackled the intake issue—note the holes in this prototype’s hood, caught by one of our regular spy shooters, and by a reader in Idaho Springs, Colorado. We hear this killer Viper is already producing 650 hp, which ought to be good for 0 to 60 mph in 3.5 seconds—or less.

Our best guess is Dodge will use this ASC/McLaren project to bridge a 2007 model-year gap, during which Dodge reportedly plans no regular production Vipers.

[dutchmasterflex]

I had a feeling it wasnt the "new" viper.

Interesting to see McLaren with Dodge ;) but it makes sense because of the ties with MB... I never would of thought DCX would of ever existed

[dannyroz]

Could McLaren please do some research and development on my civic? :lol:

[bmagni]

who cares, it doesnt stop the viper from being the POS it is!! it can have 1000hp and it will still blow chunks!!

why is it a POS ?? its a great car thats on par with european similars...

[nthfinity]

who cares, it doesnt stop the viper from being the POS it is!! it can have 1000hp and it will still blow chunks!!

why is it a POS ?? its a great car thats on par with european similars...

by on par, do you actually mean greater then?

i mean.... F430 = <500 hp
911 Turbo = <500 hp
Spyker = < 500 hp
Aston Martin doesnt handle as well with its 500 hp car
Ascari KZ1 = <600 hp
Lamborghini LP640 = <650 hp
Koenigsegg CCS = Supposed new viper thereabouts

so..... how much do you have to spend to equal where the new viper is supposedly?

oh and on its handling, the Viper has already long since been proven one of the best handling, and stopping cars in the world ;)

[bmagni]

i meant on par performance wise... and as you say its also been proved that it has a great handling.

[ice]

If by greater then, do u mean more powerful? 8.3 litres, hmm, itd better damn well have 500+hp.

If by better handling, do u mean grip levels? BEcuase the feedback of a viper is terrible, its not agile and its not nearly the same type of car as the Ascari, F430 or 911 turbo. Hell, the viper plays second fiddle to the new vette.

Personally, the viper to me is an impressive car, the definitive american sports car, the one where id spend my money. But to compare it to those at this point is flat ridiculous. Theres more to a sports car then its skidpad numbers and hp figures.

[nthfinity]

Theres more to a sports car then its skidpad numbers and hp figures.

like lap times?

oh, and all we really know about this new viper is a supposed horse power figure... why wouldn't they update the chassis/suspension etc. ?

on lap times, the viper race cars are based on the viper road cars competing in the GT1 catagorie, where our F430's are competing in GT2/GT3 cagagories... and such ;)

[nthfinity]

it isn't always about hp, not to mention the size engine the viper and vette have they better have high hp numbers!!
It's cheaper, and more reliable under high displacement... small blocks aren't all that big phisically, while displacement of the air is ;)

is there anything wrong with providing a more reliable engine base that produces as much/more hp then the others?

if the Euro makes wanted hp levels that high don't you think they would have them better yet if they needed them that high they would have them.
they do have them, they cost umpteen brazillion dollers
though, they don't need such high hp number to make a sale, where as thats probably the only way dodge and chevy can make sales!!
so, what exactly constatutes as a sports car to you? this is where it gets confusing from my perspective looking at you... to me, a sports car has the delicate balance of power/grip/stopping... its simply less work to for a maker to stop a car that can go 130 mph then a car that can touch 190 mph... let alone, cool it, and keep it earth bound, and reliable.

look at the euro sports cars, they do make high hp, good handling/stopping cars that compete against each other in order to get good sales.... porsche is a fraciton the price of a Ferrari/Lamborghini, yet their aim is to under cut thier price, and perform as good, or better.

since there is nothing wrong with that, why is it so wrong for the americans to even undercut the germans in price ;)

and since when has the viper been anywhere near considered a good handling car??
um..... since it came out..... then when it entered the world stage, and was dominating FIA GT. Even in street trim, it has so much grip, you would shit yourself.... its only when you over step that bound that it kills you.... sound like a mclaren F1?

in no vid i have seen or in any article that i have read has there been anything good said about its handling!!
i believe you have said you dont read anything on cars you have no interest in.... that seems to explain your lack of knowlege here


and i don't think they "new" viper will be hitting 800hp and if it does it will be at the hands of McLaren innovation and not american innovation!! :P
nowhere did i say 800 hp, (CCR/CCX) it has been said 650 hp (keonigsegg CCS)

oh, and since when does McLaren know anything about engines?... EVER :wink:

funny how they needed the foreigners to come show them how to get more hp from the american massive engine!! tisk tisk!!

i still think this is bunk to get people's attention

[bmagni]

and since when has the viper been anywhere near considered a good handling car??

I've read on several magazines how the Viper handles good, performing lat g's on a skidpad of more than 1.0 in the GTS, GTS-R, ACR and SRT-10 versions. The only problem they say, is how hard to control the torque is... and thats just mags...

And as nth says it owned europeans on GT races... winning LeMans, the GT championships, no to mention being the OVERALL WINNER in the 2000 Daytona 24...
Lets see what becomes of the new Oreca Viper.

funny how they needed the foreigners to come show them how to get more hp from the american massive engine!! tisk tisk!!

dude a not so tuned Hennessey Viper would own awfuly a Novitec something, maybe the ones who needed a better prestige were McLaren after that failure called SLR that they did with some europeans called Mercedes... :roll:
Hennesseys can produce more than 1000 hp... I don't see where the help is needed

[666fast]

[quote[Hennesseys can produce more than 1000 hp... I don't see where the help is needed[/quote]

SVS has them over 1500bhp.

I've read numerous articles loving the Vipers abilities. The big concern of it's handling is when it's on it's edge. With no traction control (or any driver aid) to speak of, there isa fine line between "this is awesome" and "holy crap I'm gonna die".

This McLardodge is kind of neat. I'm sure they could do good things with it, but I'm not too interested. Plus, that hood is on another level of ugliness.

[nthfinity]

This McLardodge is kind of neat. I'm sure they could do good things with it, but I'm not too interested. Plus, that hood is on another level of ugliness.

I was just discussing this with somebody else..

but who is to say that this is the same Mclaren as the F1, and formula 1 team, and SLR fame?

they dont do engines, they dont know engines... its not thier job.... every engine they have ever used is contracted out, or outsourced if you will.

this is likely some American company named Mclaren ;)

[Vansquish]

Well...this is all very interesting...but I'm not actually convinced it's the ASC Mclaren Viper that has been speculated upon above. I've heard other rumors regarding those exact pictures. Rather than a Mclaren (the Detroit-based company)/ DCX cooperative venture, I've seen speculation to suggest that it's in fact the next-gen Viper, yes, with 600-650bhp, but from Dodge itself for the 2008 model year.

[nthfinity]

Well...this is all very interesting...but I'm not actually convinced it's the ASC Mclaren Viper that has been speculated upon above. I've heard other rumors regarding those exact pictures. Rather than a Mclaren (the Detroit-based company)/ DCX cooperative venture, I've seen speculation to suggest that it's in fact the next-gen Viper, yes, with 600-650bhp, but from Dodge itself for the 2008 model year.

it is 100% the dev. mule for the 2008 Viper ;)

I'm hoping to get mothership knowledge from above this weekend regarding it... we'll see

[taygunho]

I have a fifthgear video about viper and corvette. Tiff Said viper has massive torque and power and it is fast because of them but at the track corvette is better than that. Maybe viper tuned by Mclaren would be better than orginal but I don't think Mclaren will tune viper enigne becaue like before said Mclaren don't knows about engines. Mclaren formula 1 race cars has Ilmor engines , Mclaren f1 has BMW engine and SLR has MErcedes engine. So it seems Mclaren will tune vipers chasis and gear or others not eingne.

[DeMoN]

Dont like the viper convertible or hard top. Before they came out, they had the concept. The Competition coupe looks awesome!

Man I remember seeing this pic:

http://www.usauto.pl/_starewww/tapety/dodge_viper_gtsr_concept_01_800x600.jpg

and being totally WOWed by it. Too bad they went for the ugly 2-balled roof on the coupe instead of this.

[DeMoN]

actually:

http://www.carx1.com/wallpapers/04/2000DodgeViperGTS-RConcept_800.jpg

This is the picture!

[ice]

Like I said, Id take the viper over any american sports car competitor., but that doesnt mean it is a rival for the porsches.

And no, lap times arent that important, whats important is how the car behaves and feels, not just outright performance. Sticking monster tires is enough to getgood grip, but it dilutes the feel of the car, the delicacy of the handling, its why the viper and vettes give up a whole deal of feeling to obtain higher skidpad numbers, or better lap times.Meanwhile, on the road u have a big, clumsy and awkward car to drive rund in, and when it comes to a nice, twisty road a much smaller, less powerful car is a hell of a lot more enjoyable.

Oh, and if the viper was concerned about lap times theyd change the front end of the car, just about the least aerodynamic front end of any sports car, its why they need all of those 8.3 litres to hit 200 mph, which if im not mistaken, a viper copupe still cannot hit stock.

[blah]

Do you think this one will still catch on fire???

THe Vipers problem is, it does not tell the driver how much grip is left, kinda like AWD, which is why AUDI blows. To get back on topic though, the viper is grip grip grip grip Death. No Inbetween, in the hands of an experienced driver it is a beast but anyone without a racing championship should beware.

BTW fuck AUDI.

[dutchmasterflex]

^ hahaha, had a little too much Haterade this morning?

I can pretty much agree with you though.. except I've never driven a Viper ;)

Although the only American Sports car I'd buy is the 65k Z06!

I really wonder how much McLaren can do with this viper.. Interesting to see they're workin on the convertible and not the roadster..

[nthfinity]

Like I said, Id take the viper over any american sports car competitor., but that doesnt mean it is a rival for the porsches.

And no, lap times arent that important, whats important is how the car behaves and feels, not just outright performance. Sticking monster tires is enough to getgood grip, but it dilutes the feel of the car, the delicacy of the handling, its why the viper and vettes give up a whole deal of feeling to obtain higher skidpad numbers, or better lap times.Meanwhile, on the road u have a big, clumsy and awkward car to drive rund in, and when it comes to a nice, twisty road a much smaller, less powerful car is a hell of a lot more enjoyable.

Oh, and if the viper was concerned about lap times theyd change the front end of the car, just about the least aerodynamic front end of any sports car, its why they need all of those 8.3 litres to hit 200 mph, which if im not mistaken, a viper copupe still cannot hit stock.

spoken like a true person who has never been in a true sports car. oh, and dont talk to me about aerodynamics... or prepare for ownage/learnage.

again, your definition of a sportscar seems to be based on puny miatas... sure they handle well.... but those will never be a true sports car, they are too unstable at speed, too low powered, and only available in drop-top form.

oh, and Dodge is concerned about such things as Feel, lap times, accelleration, braking, handling balance.... hence, people loving them to death.

oh, and in TG.... the viper seemed to behave quite nicely.... even Jeremy Clarkson says the car is raw, and visceral.... oh, and the Viper hasn't been so killer (grip grip grip grip grip, more grip, death) since the SRT-10 series came out, as Dodge reworked some key componentry of the chassis, and suspension.

I have no idea why people who don't even read about the viper like to think they suck because they dont like them. They are hot-tempered, and raw machines that other cars could only hope to be.

next your going to come up with something so profound, that you may decide "its not worth arguing over, i just dont like it.... i dont care that my reasons for not liking it are invalid.... but i will continue to not like it because i loath american cars" :wink: :roll:

[nthfinity]

Too bad they went for the ugly 2-balled roof on the coupe instead of this.

you mean the roof that is in the picture, and on the production SRT-10 coupe minus the air scoop?

[DeMoN]

Do you think this one will still catch on fire???

THe Vipers problem is, it does not tell the driver how much grip is left, kinda like AWD, which is why AUDI blows. To get back on topic though, the viper is grip grip grip grip Death. No Inbetween, in the hands of an experienced driver it is a beast but anyone without a racing championship should beware.

BTW fuck AUDI.

Oh oh! your in for it now when everso reads this!

[dannyroz]

^nth you couldnt have said it any better

The viper to me has always been an American TVR. Do you think maybe McLaren wants to create their next supercar using the V10 and using this mule to deal with cooling issues??? Interesting thought aint it :D

You guys need to remember one thing though when you are bickering over whats the better car and all:

1. Most of us won't ever own or drive any of these cars
2. You base your "knowledge of handling characteristics" on magz and other reviewers
3. If someone handed you the keys to a Viper, you will gladly accept it and thrash it
4. The day you have the oppurtunity to drive a Viper, you will come back to this forum saying how much of a beast it is and how much you loved it.

I could gladly say I have driven a viper when I went to Skip Barber performance school and that thing is just awesome. Best car to learn how to drift or learn car control, I owe alot to that car in my skill. Its a shame there arent more cars like those, and there are only 3 other that I could think of that are that raw (Old 911s, TVRs, and the CC8/R/X)

My dos pesos amigos

[ice]

spoken like a true person who has never been in a true sports car. oh, and dont talk to me about aerodynamics... or prepare for ownage/learnage.

again, your definition of a sportscar seems to be based on puny miatas... sure they handle well.... but those will never be a true sports car, they are too unstable at speed, too low powered, and only available in drop-top form.

oh, and Dodge is concerned about such things as Feel, lap times, accelleration, braking, handling balance.... hence, people loving them to death.

oh, and in TG.... the viper seemed to behave quite nicely.... even Jeremy Clarkson says the car is raw, and visceral.... oh, and the Viper hasn't been so killer (grip grip grip grip grip, more grip, death) since the SRT-10 series came out, as Dodge reworked some key componentry of the chassis, and suspension.

I have no idea why people who don't even read about the viper like to think they suck because they dont like them. They are hot-tempered, and raw machines that other cars could only hope to be.

next your going to come up with something so profound, that you may decide "its not worth arguing over, i just dont like it.... i dont care that my reasons for not liking it are invalid.... but i will continue to not like it because i loath american cars" :wink: :roll:


Hey, dont make generalizations about me friend, not only have i been in plenty of sports cars, ive driven plenty of them, and own one thats not too bad either. not to sound arrogant, but im from an affluent family with a passion for sports cars, so you are defintely wrong about that. And ive never driven a miata. Second, dont be so bloody personal about a car you are trying to defend.

Did you even read my post? I ddint say the viper sucked, i told you i liked it better then any of its american competitors, which is saying a lot nowadayd.

If you are trying to debate whether the Viper needs a hell of a lot of power to push all the air out of the way of its huge snout, then go on all you want. its frontal surface area is huge compared to Z06's, 911's or just about any of its competitors.

And sinc when does "people loving them to death" qualify a statement of the viper giving proper feedback, and allwing for adjustabiulity? Lap times are what you mentioned, and is a very distnct thing from road feedback and delicacy. People love the new pontiac GTO, but you might as well be driving the car from the space shuttle, the feeing you get from its wheel.

Raw and visceral were terms describing the vipers tendency to club you over the head with a small mistake. im not exactly sure what connection that has to allowing the driver to feel the road or make minute adjustments.

Again, im not saying the viper isnt fast, or isnt effective as a race car, i merely commented on you comparison to 911's f430's and the like.

The comparison to the TVR's and CCX is pretty good. Those cars give great one lap performances after tons of practice, but try doing that for 8 hours straight. Refinement isnt a bad thing in a race car, it only becomes an issue when it compromises the speed of the car to an extent where its in danger of beomcing too slow. It is what makes the latest 911's so damn good, they have consisntancy, they are forgiving and they provide a wealth of feedback so the drive is aware of what each tire is doing. Do you actually think the race prepped viper is the hooligan car that the road car is? You dont think they modified its character to be less threatenning, more consistant and less likely to throw its tail out, or crash?

[nthfinity]

Hey, dont make generalizations about me friend, not only have i been in plenty of sports cars, ive driven plenty of them, and own one thats not too bad either. not to sound arrogant, but im from an affluent family with a passion for sports cars, so you are defintely wrong about that. And ive never driven a miata. Second, dont be so bloody personal about a car you are trying to defend.
ah, now your real opinion comes out.... you are right because you are from some high-society social club that can only be entered through blood decendants.

When it comes to opninions, aristicracy has absolutely nothing to do with facts. Oh, where was I being personal? (before now)


If you are trying to debate whether the Viper needs a hell of a lot of power to push all the air out of the way of its huge snout, then go on all you want. its frontal surface area is huge compared to Z06's, 911's or just about any of its competitors.
The Z's frontal area (in C6 Z form) is quite comparable to the Vipers.... oh, and the Ford GT's, and the Lamborghini Murcialago, etc. you ought to know that the coeficiant of drag isn't the only aerodynamic que that makes a car have higher top end... oh, and with its current 505 hp, it does hit 196 mph (I've met the guy who set that record at the Chelsea proving grounds)

what does the 911 do with 500 hp in the GT2? about 200... the difference is extremely neglegable.... the flow properties tend to aid a lot more in top end in the end... hence why the CGT isn't faster top speed, and the F50 could only muster an extra mph then the F40... the flow properties at the cross section behind the cockpit.

And sinc when does "people loving them to death" qualify a statement of the viper giving proper feedback, and allwing for adjustabiulity? Lap times are what you mentioned, and is a very distnct thing from road feedback and delicacy. People love the new pontiac GTO, but you might as well be driving the car from the space shuttle, the feeing you get from its wheel.
The viper has home adjustable suspension geometry, as does the Corvette Z06. are you suggesting that people ought to go flat out as soon as they get their car and feel they are experts?

First off, since you are an aristicrat; you must be an expert on this; as well as everything.

what does a soft wollowy Monaro/GTO have to do with a hard edged sportscar? Absolutely nothing.

Again, you are spewing words out your mouth without any personal experience. Steering feel is determined by grip levels, steering, and suspension gemotries.

the cars that you cant drive by steering feel, are driven by the seat of your pants.

We have another JW member who posted how the Viper is the perfect car to learn how to drive by this feeling.... so dannyroz just owned your 'i must be right because i'm an aristicrat' opinion based on hard lined experience.

Raw and visceral were terms describing the vipers tendency to club you over the head with a small mistake. im not exactly sure what connection that has to allowing the driver to feel the road or make minute adjustments.
refer to above post by danny


Again, im not saying the viper isnt fast, or isnt effective as a race car, i merely commented on you comparison to 911's f430's and the like.

its another case of marketing, and personal taste, and has absolutely nothing to do with which could be the superior car.... just because Dodge under cuts them in price makes that a more tangable answer.

The comparison to the TVR's and CCX is pretty good. Those cars give great one lap performances after tons of practice, but try doing that for 8 hours straight. Refinement isnt a bad thing in a race car, it only becomes an issue when it compromises the speed of the car to an extent where its in danger of beomcing too slow. It is what makes the latest 911's so damn good, they have consisntancy, they are forgiving and they provide a wealth of feedback so the drive is aware of what each and every tire is doing.
it seems you keep missing people saying that the SRT-10 series cares are much more refined then that of the RT/10, and GTS era. The Viper is refined. Turbo is a car you can use all year... different markets, different purposes.

And hey, if you watch Le Mans, you tell me if a team would value a second a lap avantage or a a car which can maintain its pace over the entire race without worries of spinning or whipping the tail around. Thats what poorly prepped race cars tend to do.
this is what separates the good racers from the bad ones.

are you going to tell me the prodrive F550's were poor cars because of all the spins they encountered? Driver error becomes minute with a good driver.... why do you think the best teams coincidentally have the best drivers ;)

[dannyroz]

Consistancy??? First off if your going to make a comment like that I might want to have some info backing that up.

If you watch Best Motoring (which you apparently dont) they clearly show the new 911 losing grip and overheating its brakes after 3 hard laps. Consistancy on the race track means nothing to a sport car, its just a nice benefit to have.

As mentioned earlier by nth (once again :D ) it really comes down to suspension geometry, tire grip, and steering. Basically what you mentioned from the GTO is either its steering is over assisted or the geometry is misaligned and making it uncommunicative.

Feeling that we are getting off topic, could McLaren pleeeaase do some work on my civic? :lol:

[ice]

haha, i cant believe you would try group me into some social class, maybe to try discredit anything ive said, or maybe for some other reason. Dont be so childish as to try call me "an aristocrat" in hopes that itll have any use other then to show you cant have a discussion about a car, only an argument. You dont know a thing about me, stop pretending like you do.

The CGT, F50 and GT2 have something the viper doesnt have, downforce. This is the reason why the viper uses such thick tires, to give it a better coeff of friction to the road. Its also the reason why, when driving the viper at its limits, itll just give out with no warning.

What does your "explanation" of tire grip, geometry mean? Does it lessen the fact that the viper provides less feedback then any of its euro, and in the z06 case, american compeititors? Is it so easy as to say "why dont we fix the suspension geometry of this car to give it better feel"? Maybe you should be the engineer working on this viper then, and go to work for any fo the thousands of car manufacturers that find it so difficult to make communicative steering along the lines of Porsches Ferraris and the like.

And to say the new Viper is THAt signifiacntly more refined is a matter of relativity. Ive spent time in a new Viper, and will tell you as much progress as it has made from the previous gen, its still not refined to any degree whatsoever. Take a spin in the new Z06 to see what I mean. No performance disadvabntage whatsever, but you could drive it for hours and not even feel sore.


Again, to bring in somethign you previously mentioned, Jeremy in Top Gear uses the words Raw and Viceral not to describe the characteristics of the viper in a way to show how well it handled, but to show its a hooligan car which burns out, slides and overall is all over the road, being loud and mean in the process. Fun as HELL, but not traits well waranted on a track car.

Again, read my posts, i said poorly prepped race cars TEND to be less controllable, in no way does that lessen the impact of rain, driver error or anything else. Are you debating that a poorly set up race car TENDS to be less drivable????

I honestly think that it is your bias for Vipers, nth, thats preventing you from seeing that im not in fact insulting the viper in any way shape or form. How many sports cars can you genuinely say youve compared the Viper, in driving expericne, to. If youve read as many articles as you say, youd see that in no magazine has the Viper been held in anywhere NEAR the regard of the 911, the (LEAST of all)f430 or the murcielago. Drive a 911 c4s and youll know what i mean. Hell, the 911 trbo, as practical as it is, is consistantly heralded as one of the fastst point to point cars on the planet. Its refinement, its ability to be used to 90% in almost any envornment, is what makes it and the rest of the 911's such good sports cars. Drive a Viper down a challenging, tight road in comparison to one of those and the feel (or lack thereof) will show you the difference.

[nthfinity]

haha, i cant believe you would try group me into some social class, maybe to try discredit anything ive said, or maybe for some other reason. Dont be so childish as to try call me "an aristocrat" in hopes that itll have any use other then to show you cant have a discussion about a car, only an argument. You dont know a thing about me, stop pretending like you do.

only calling it like i see it. re-read your post, and perhaps you can see how pompus it really is ;)

you may be a gentleman... however, what does bringing money, and family aquisition have to do with how a car drives? you are trying to impress somebody; and naturally, money doesn't impress me... but people can.

I'm much more impressed with the man who transends social class to get where he wants to go then the trust fund babies... there are a few exceptions out there... a few are members here at JW.

BTW, depending on what track the viper is a superior track car to the Z06, and FGT.

each have thier own traits.

BTW, I'd choose an FGT over any of the aformentioned...

the Z06 is a brilliant car, and is engineered then the Viper.

the viper is a well balanced, and true sports car.

I am a tremendous porsche lover... but the 911 isn't worth thinking about until the Turbo... and even then... AWD spoils it a bit.... but i would group the Viper Coupe, Z06, Ford GT right in the same catagorie as the Ferrari CS, and 911 GT3.... not posh cars like 911 turbo

[martin100]

What a beast :shock: Maby McLaren can manage to make the car a little better :wink:

[nthfinity]

...Also, why is this dick measuring contest still going on between nth and ice...? !!!

i know, and am compfortable with my 'shoe' size :twisted: :wink: