Chevrolet Corvette ZR1's Official 'Ring Time is 7:26.4
 

http://blog.gmnext.com/?p=194

nice :thumbup:

Note how they got the "what tyres and alignment?" quesitons out of the way.

Nissan can learn a thing or 2 about PR from the GM ;)

Even thought the ZR1 is not in the Viper ACR's "track day" class, it better watch out... imagine the carnage if the ZR1 arrives on 80 wear rated Sprt Cups, instead of the mundae 220 rated PS2's? :)

I hope to snap up one of the used ZR1's that will be appearing after the "gotta havve it now" folks get bored with their cars and start dumping em.

Thanksfully it is just a Chevy and will plumet in value over the enxt 5 years hehehe

I was waiting for that! 1:26 :ohmy::-)

It's about time for GM to get back some money from development and sell ZR1 parts for Z06.....

got to love those vettes should silence some other car fans if true.

From what is said GM is apparently trying to be very honest about how the time was made. They should be applauded for doing that.

I was hoping for a lower time, but that probably will come in the near future as the car becomes available to mear mortals.

not believing until i see video footage, superimposed with te GTR's

haha. Nice time

You just dont believe it because you know Nissan couldnt come out and say "street tyres, pump gas and stock settings" - becaus eif they did, they would be lieing ;)

I say just to prove the point, GM should put some kinda DSG transmission into the ZR-1 as option and shave another few seconds off that time using pump fuel

I was reading that if you turn off VDC in the GT-R you void the warranty - so literally they will not allow you to drive your own car.. ;)

That must be because when the aids are off, the car can't stop, turn of go.. ;) hehehe LOL

Not bad for a $400,000 car.

Yes, that is how high it's going with mark up at dealerships right now.

What a bargain.

I'll believe it when I see it.

GM officially thought markup would be about 105% maxed out, then they announced they are going to build 4,000 of them..... markup wont last long at all.

^^^ I can already see my ZR1 sitting next to my Z07.... (jusy peaked into the future 4 years.. ;)) hehe

http://jalopnik.com/396780/dealer-go...rice-of-413000

"I put a deposit down for the 2009 ZR1 about 2 1/2 years ago at "my" chevy dealer from whom I have bought many GM cars, including trucks, vettes. I have probably bought 15+ GM vehicles over the years. I was told 2 1/2 years ago that the price for this "iffy" car would be around the same ratio as the 5K overcharge I paid for my 2006 Z06. I was called to order my ZR1 yesterday since I was #1 on the allocation list of this dealer's 4 allocations. I was told that by the way the price would be between 2-4 times the MSRP. Tadge Juechter, the Chief of Corvette Engineering, has urged GM ZR1 dealers to respect the MSRP. I am very upset with the greed and disregard for customer loyalty in a down economy. Is there any recourse?"

The selling price of each ZR1 will be determined by supply and demand.

Simple economics really - if people can afford to pay the asking price, they pay.. if no one wants to pay, the price comes down.

i imagine if u go thru a dealership instead of going thru kentucky u would run into that this like any other well built car theres not high production number and if u want one of the first its gonna cost u and as far as not beliving the time its already official

i wonder if it'll be as tuner friendly as the ford gt

Will the engines be tuner friendly? Absolutely... but who will tune it?

I met with a GM exec earlier... The ZR1 is really more then just the icing on the cake :)

Impressive, all i can say. Finally they posted some numbers to support their arrogance, and here i was becoming sceptical about their claims... Papa vette took the Ring, props to GM for creating such a vehicle.
Now honestly i doubt the 7:26 record will stay there for long, these days everyone seem to be so desperate about the record breaking time at the Nurburgring and we have a bunch of respectable contenders including LF-A, NSX, V-Spec, top of the line DPK 911s, the last Zonda rendition may take a try as well. And i certainly think Chevy themselves can best that time within another couple of sunny day timeattack attempts with Magnussen at the wheel. So, who'll be the next Lord of the Ring? All i can say is it won't be a new Toyota Prius, other than that i'm uncertain...

I wanna see them beat this :P

^ Well in Nissan terms and physics the ZR1 did it in 6:26 :mrgreen:

You could be waiting a while. It could turn into one of those collectors things where it retains it value better than other Chevys.

Anyway, I'd think you would be more than happy with your own creatiion that you're driving now :-)

I believe that the 1990 ZR-1 cost more in real dollar terms than the 2009 one does, and that had a $75,000+ retail (when regular Vettes cost $30K) to around $30K pretty quickly.

But I am patient ;)

Oh, I am - but yo uknow the "cost" of a modded car vs a stock car with the same performance - your modded car comes at the expense of all the creature features the stock car has hehe :)

Yeah but is the interior going to be better than the GTR.

If the economy is in the tank the cars may sell at retail. Shelby couldn't get rid of the last of his 427 Cobras. If gas keeps rising there may well be some bargins in the future on alot of the cars we like. But then we may not have the money to buy them.

Yes, save your dollars for the performance bargains that will result from the coming of the second Malaise! Obama does kind of reminds me of Carter . . .

I'll be looking for a Mustang GT, Solstice, and a 'vette, hehehe

Video of the 7:26 lap
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=128886

I knew it would look fast but JESUS. That is ridiculous.

It's a tuned car - just tuned right at the factory. No surprise it's fast like other tuned cars.

What's more interesting is that the 'vette with its huge 640hp engine for <1500kg of weight, i.e. 425 hp/tonne, did only a bit better than the GTR with measly 275 hp/tonne, and worse than the tuned GTR (V-Spec) with 345 hp/tonne.

And engine power is just a question of tuning, you can have as much as you want; even the small engines of the old Skylines have been tuned to over 1000hp.




They're both slowpokes, though. It's a comparison between Slowbro and Slowking.
Radical SR8, Ariel Atom - now these are cars which do have some speed.

Every engine is a tuned engine then. This engine is bespoke and purpose built, and mass produced. Find me a tuner that does that.

What is more interesting is that the ZR1 could easily go faster, but they didn't put the absolute Ring master's in the car, nor tune the suspension for the absolute NS lap... but rather for people who drive their cars. Looking at the video, there are often 1000 rpm left in a gear+ when the driver is shifting... allowing even more time to be "made up" for going all out.

What is more interesting is that the ZR1 is a drivers car, where the driver is responsible for what the car does, not a series of processors with 10,000's of lines of code to allow the car or disallow the car to do what the driver want's the car to do.

What is even more interesting is that it isn't a ringer. Power claimed is power made, was done in higher levels of heat then what Nissan did, wasn't using racing fuel, wasn't using hand-cut slicks, or semi-slicks even... or different engine tune to stock.


Is that why Top Fuel cars are all high displacement supercharged OHV engines, and none are boosted straight 6's, 4's, 10's, 12's ......?

Boosting + higher displacement yields more reliable power ;) How many 4 and 6 cylinders have you heard about being rebuilt when running over 20 psi ?? A much smaller number of high displacement engines ;)

Tuning you describe is solely what are known as "dyno queens"

Well done GM, well done.

Ralliart.


You can look at it two ways. In one way, it means what you imply. In the other, it means ZR1 is only fast thanks to its driver being a professional racer, and the GTR is fast even when you or me drive it.


Any links to the info? Referring to the 7:29 lap, not the old 7:38 one.




Top fuel cars need thousands of hp. 6000, 7000, 8000. They are crap, crap in every single aspect, except for power. They're primitive because raw power is all that matters.

And they're still slow. My 338 does quarter mile in less than a second. See a dragster match that.



The 1000-1200hp Skylines are reliable. It's just that they were built by smart people who know how to push the engine just to the limit, without breaking it.


True. So are all American Muscle Cars - all about power and torque. And even Corvette heavily depends on its horsepower.
Although it's different... Unlike the 1960s muscles, it's not a looker.

A truly fast car is one that goes fast even with little power.

When did that happen? I must have missed that one run.. Got link?
Its quite obvious it was. A 7:29 doesnt fit in with every other test of the car.

So..... High tech modern drag engines are primitive? Is that why they are still using them? I thought the goal was to go faster then your oponnent, obviously they must all be redneck retards.

So... Your 338 (WTF is a 338) does 1/4 mile in < 1 second. That means you must average over 900 mph with a flying start. So, you must be either retarded, or pulling sewage out yer' ass.

Nothing on the planet accelerates as hard on land as a Top Fuel car making in excess of 5000 hp for so few pistons/ displacement. On launch, they pull 8 G; and only a modern fighter jet can pull over 8g in a turn.... not from thrust like a Top fuel car.

Also, about those 1200 hp Supras, why is it on the drag strip, that the 700 hp Supra's are often faster then the 1200 hp Supras? They aren't the most reliable, or economic way to get 1200 hp, that is sure. Come to Detroit, and I'll show you real power, raw, primitive, and untamed.... and the guys who know how to work them.

Not built by the smart people who make 1500+ in street trim from the big displacement tuners.

If I wanted a small engine with little throttle responce, and mediocre power, and low bang-per-buck effect, sure... thats not so bad... Put them up on the track, street etc. vs. the 10,000's of LPE, MTI, LG, Heffner, Hennesey, and eons of private shops big displacement american iron, and sportscars... and then we can talk LOL.

Or you can look at it this way:
The ZR1 easier to cruise faster around the ring then the GTR is going balls-out.
Or, the Porsche mentality:
Don't show them something that is too incredible, as people may die attempting to match it.
Or, the Nissan meathod:
Ringer for the Ring, we did it before, we'll do it again.

You're more than welcome to drive those cars on daily basis; you're stating the obvious...

338 = gun (had to look it up :-))

Nice - a discussion involving a biased idiot, a Corvette and Vette supporters... and I wasn't anywhere near it.. ;)

Why doesnt this Evo8 clown give some details about where he is from - or what his basis of realworld road or track experience is - and specifically where his illinformed and ignorant bias comes from?

Better yet - how old he is, and how soon before he gets a drivers license? ;)

Well, you were wrong. But it's nothing to be ashamed about, we all learn things as we live.

The goal was to go as fast as possible with nothing more than a very primitive engine of a fixed displacement. They are low-tech and old-fashioned, not modern in any way.

Dragster power comes from their extreme focus on building an engine that can only run for a few seconds at a time and a few minutes total, as well as burning special fuel.


None of the above, actually.
What's more, the 338 is much more practical than any dragster.


Skylines, not supras.
And yes, in part you're right. Power is the single most meaningless thing in cars after top speed. Real performance lies not in power, but in how it's put down and handled.

Big achievement, pull 1500 hp out of an 8-liter engine, when others pull 1200 out of a 2.6-liter one.


I'm sorry. You were asking for an example of a mass-produced tuner, not a private shop. I didn't give you some Top Secret, I pointed out a mass-tuner.

Not really. It wasn't "cruised", it was driven extremely professionally for performance. It's just that it's hard to grasp from a video. The faster a driver is, the slower he looks on tape.

And GT-R wasn't yet tuned. It had a far lower hp/ton ratio. ZR1 is a tuned car, tuned by factory, but still tuned.

There is nothing primative or low tech about those engines. If they were their bhp wouldnt have changed in the last 50 years.. Something tells me your not going to win that arguement. That being said your displaying myth number 1.. Your new tech, is still based on something thats just as old a pushrods.

You may want to check your statement at the door. Lightenfelter engineering and hennessey aren't just some shop. They are a mass produced tuner. He didn't even mention Callaway.

Hows that swamp land in Florida treating you?

The 33xx lbs, independent suspension, carbon fiber body, alluminum and magnesium frame, a drag coeficient of .28 , 14+ inch ceramic brakes, and electro magnetic shocks have nothing at all to do with it. :-P

Seems you are showing your age, and bias; as my statement is quite far from wrong. Just because you don't understand the absolute upper limit of horsepower winning engines, does not mean I am wrong ;)
Exotic engineering yields competitive results. As with most forms of racing, very high dollar experimentation and research ...


So, if I build any engine to run only 1500-2000 rpm before requiring a rebuild, and put in race gas, I'm automatically as fast as the winning teams/ drivers? Think again.

"at least 900 mph" which translates to
"at least 1320 feet per second" So, if your 338 doesn't fire at least 1320 fps, it is not going as fast as you stated. So, either you are wrong, or you are wrong.

Replace "Supra", and insert "skyline" results stay the same. Skyline owner paid more.

Power to weight, and improving reliability is far more important to the driver then dyno queens you speak of.


The volume these "private shops" put out far exceed that of Ralliart, many of them do so individually ;)

Is that why it was being short shifted? Short shifting looks like cruising to me... oh, and feels like it too.

special ECU tune, weight reduction, and rumors of race fuel, and race tread (the 7:29 run was run with an "optional" tread that will be introduced as a Japan-only tire. )

From the wheel movement and car movements the ZR1 looks to be far more stable and composed than both the Zonda and GTR (low and high speed). I guess thats proof that the much hyped about Magnaride suspension works. Even with the headwind its also interesting to note that the 638hp ZR1 was only able to reach 179mph on the long straight, whereas the 480hp GTR reached 180mph.

At start of straightaway:
ZR1: 6.36
GTR: 6.48 Difference= 12 seconds

To the end of the straight where the bridge crosses
Times:
ZR1: 7.05
GTR: 7.18

Time to run back stretch:
ZR1: 29 seconds (ZR1 reaches near 180mph and holds back)
GTR: 30 seconds

I personally think it is LUDICROUS to think the ZR1 could only put 1 second on the GTR through this contest of flat out acceleration EVEN if the GTR had carried more speed into the straight. Hell, even a "measly" 505HP Z06 has been shown to put atleast that much distance on a GTR from 0-120mph.

It looks like the GTR was doctored with A LOT more boost even if the tires weren't doctored.

Technically, you are half right, in the part about exotic engineering. And the other half not, because the dragster engines are very primitive. The regulations are strict enough to limit experimentation to little more than tuning.


Or I am right, which, actually, happens to be the case. Finish your sentences, please, it doesn't take much time.

Although a better use of time would be to learn what the muzzle velocity of .338 is, and how much distance it covers before slowing down to 1320 fps.



I'm talking power to weight. 2.6 litre engines are lighter than 8 liter ones.


Sometimes a pair of quotes is the best answer.
---

No one drives a timed lap intentionally slow. Maybe it's better for this car. Or do you seriously think that if Chevy could post, for instance, a 6:50 time, they would say "Oh, we don't need it", and settle for 7:26?

Which, of course you are wrong, as I put a minimum velocity to indicate 1/4 mile per second. Which, I am right. But any fool can see that.


Whoa, somebody doesn't know about the effect of repetitive wear on cylinder walls, and how thick those have to be to maintain those "extreme" levels of "street boost" Higher pressure equates to more angular motion of the piston within the sleeve. Thicker walls equates to higher weight, higher boost equates to reduced reliability, stronger materials equates to reduced quality control, and over stressed specific points, and joints that isn't measured on a more malleable part.


Talk to Walter Rohl, that is exactly what they do at Porsche.He can, and does lap faster... but not for PR releases of lapped times.

Look at the video, and its quite easy to observe a large amount of short shifting; the end result, a slower lap time. .... that is incredibly fast.

Wrong there too. You do realize that the ls family of engines, despite being larger in deplacement by 2 liters then the similar bmw engine, is lighter by almost 100 lbs. Its not that simple.
valves have weight after all.

A fool can. A smarter person can see a different thing.

What I posted was "My 338 does quarter mile in less than a second", which is true. That means I'm not wrong. And so, due to the boolean nature of right and wrong, it happens to mean that I am right.

Don't dodge the point, you're not a viper. I've said that the .338 is faster and more practical than dragsters. Which is true. As anyone with at least one eye can check, I didn't say a world about the MV needed to have a sub-second quarter mile. You did, and you made an assumption that .338 doesn't reach 1320 fps. Sadly (for targets) - or fortunately (for shooters) - it flies much faster than 1320 fps.

Now, I never said you were wrong, until now, when you actually are: as seen above, I'm right, and you've mistakenly stated that I'm not.



He does.
They still last.
And they're still light.

Now, this is simply not true.

I don't even mention that tuners work on the original block out of the original material.

Good point. I do. However, it's not the case: the Jap low-displacement engines are still far lighter than the USian big blocks.

Since we are getting into this, your first post says "338" not ".338"

Have you ever worked on compents like Titanium, and exotic alloys of mixed metals? It is true, and considerably reduced quality control to well established, higher volumes produced, and cheaper metals used in production engines. Ever hear of Six Sigma? How about FMEA? Let alone the metallurgy.


Block, yes.... everything in the block, including the sleeves, no. You are naive to think otherwise.

Who is talking about a big block? We are talking about Small Block architecture. :D

Soooooooo.... what is the weight of a stock block Skyline 2.6 from the GTR R34?

Technically, it's .338", not just .338. So 338 is just as fine as .338. I intentionally made it less obvious, to test your knowledge on things that are really fast.


Now, you see, we're talking tuning here. Professional tuning. It implies quality control. It's impossible to reach high hp/liter ratio on a poorly built engine.


The block? ~60 kilos in the GTR.

Now, what a USian 8-litre block weighs...
:-P

Kirkham Aluminum FE block (with caps) 79 pounds!
~ 35.8 KG

i'm just going to point out a quick fact...
most boosted engines (like Skyline, Supra, the horsepower monsters) have iron blocks which gives them the ability to put out those numbers (600hp reliably, beyond that you're playing with fire).

P.S. Iron weighs a tad more than aluminum which counters the fact that they are using smaller engines. The motor that was in my GTI (1.8L) probably weighs in at the same as the 5.7 in my RX-7, see my point? It's a give an take, none of them lack flaws.

Its walls are so thin that I doubt it even can be up-tuned at all. And they probably didn't count the liners, rings, pistons, and other basic parts of the engine going with the block.

Stock blocks are much heavier.


An engine is more than just the block. While the blocks can be lightened a lot, the rest not so much. A small engine is still much lighter.

A cubic foot of iron is 491 lb
a cubic foot of Aluminum is 169 lb

However, Aluminum has 1/4 the sheering forces that iron has