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st-anger

08-07-2003, 11:13 AM

so what about the latest Porsche rumours....
i`ve seen that following topic on some sites today too, so it`s not only me dreaming :lol:
back to the roots, to motorsports??? head of Porsche W.Wiedeking postponed that topic for the developement of the Cayenne.
sometimes i hate the Cayenne because shortly before finishing off the development of the Porsche Carrera GT as a LeMans racing car, the development team was called to help with the development of the new Porsche SUV, so the CGT LeMans racing car died...for now ( in Weissach there are also some rumours to go back to LeMans after the CGT is running well as a road car )
so no new motorsports activieties for my friends at Weissach HQ but something Mr. Wiedeking promised that would never happen:
a Porsche with a diesel engine. Porsche`ll take the 5.0 V10 diesel engine from the Touareg and upgrade it to approx. 370hp.
this desicion has been made to satisfy the euro market due to the criticism of the high fuel comsumption of the petrol driven Cayenne.
so again this is only a rumour, but it makes really sense to me: donÂ´t get me wrong i don`t like diesel engines in sportscars, BUT the Cayenne is no sports car itÂ´s a SUV. and when Porsche is making profit out of it, and i think the will, i`m happy, because then they can invest in the real sportscars and motorsports.

1zippo1

08-07-2003, 11:26 AM

st-anger

08-07-2003, 11:35 AM

Some very interesting info. Didn't expected this, but it doesn't bother me either. If they would have done this with the 911... that would be a total other story. The cayenne is not a sports car as you said.

st-anger you really are a very big Porsch fan. I'm glad you are and other people like you (TT, ...) keep me updated on the car scène.

i´m glad you like my posts...
concearning to the Porsche fan thing....well maybe you don`t know, but some years back i worked for them at the EZW in Weissach (..the motorsport departement of Porsche ) and this was probably the best time of my life...and after that experience everybody`d love Porsche.
it`s the next best thing after my wife...or even the best j/k :lol:
:arrow: so if you ever have questions about Porsche, don`t hesitate to ask me... :wink:

jon_s

08-07-2003, 12:07 PM

(glad to see you got you avatar sorted mate! LOOKING GOOD........I can't help but make Broooooooooooooom noises to go along with it!)

st-anger

08-08-2003, 04:14 AM

(glad to see you got you avatar sorted mate! LOOKING GOOD........I can't help but make Broooooooooooooom noises to go along with it!)

yep thx mate, me too.....brooooom, broooom :lol: :lol:

st-anger

08-08-2003, 09:55 AM

the latest 997TT pics:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid73/p87ad1787434de6b7813b3fc5fa1f6060/fb72525b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid73/pe762d4fb216089c306d1c2421c67afb6/fb725263.jpg

winter testing 997C
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid73/pfc8bb689897ac1ef7c4428aba4697e20/fb724ffe.jpg

st-anger

08-08-2003, 12:24 PM

this is a good comparison to the 997TT pictures:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid73/pb877709ddf131b0f85d0743879468dcd/fb721af6.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid73/p07ab66eca5f797a42dac18cda33257d4/fb721b16.jpg

...those are looking quite equally, BUT this is the prototype of the 2005 987 Boxster seen at Porsche’s Weissach proving ground on the outskirts of Stuttgart. the roadster is estimated to hit the road in winter or spring ´04/´05 the coupe a year later.
the details for indicating of beeing a Boxster are:
-two seater
-mid engine layout (note the blacked-out rear side windows and firewall behind the seats)
-long wheelbase ( today’s Boxster have a 6.35cm longer wheelbase than the 911 )
-muscular hip line
-short rear overhang
-small spoiler

Porsche`ll again use the 2.7-liter and 3.2-liter flat-six engines but with increased power ( ~235 for Boxster, ~270 for Boxster S ) and a six-speed double-clutch manual gearbox similar to the system offered on the Audi TT. After the launch of the Roadster and Coupe, a series of performance modells are planned, including a stripped-out Boxster Clubsport model.

st-anger

08-09-2003, 10:10 AM

- Cayenne V6 Targa spotted in Leipzig factory -

a friend of mine arrived back from Porsche factory in Leipzig this morning and he immediately came over to tell me the latest news:
he saw a reference model for the Cayenne Targa V6 with 6-speed manual.
the handle seems to be quite large for a Porsche shift handle, and also some other interiour changes can be seen, like the ventilation system’s buttons. if you ever had the chance to look inside a Cayenne S or TT you`ll see two separated silver buttons to adjust airflow and temperature of the aircondition on each side. the V6 modell he saw has only one big silver button on each side, which indicates that automatic aircondition won’t be standard on the V6. The glass roof itself has two partitions upfront, one above the front seats and one above the rear seats. Both looked to be moveable. Next to it is a fixed large glass roof covering the trunk area. so he said that it`s quite as airy in the Cayenne Targa as it`s in the 996 modell because of the fact that really the whole roof consists of glass.

cameras are forbidden inside the factory, so here is a photoshopped pic of a 955TT Targa:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid73/p4252911637a6d80bbcc483d3fc02425b/fb703247.jpg

1zippo1

08-09-2003, 10:59 AM

I'm not so sure about the new 911 & boxster. I don't really like those air intakes behind the doors. But we'll just have to wait and see.

I think it's strange however that they changed the appearance of the boxster in such a radical way. I know folks who say the boxster is much more attractive then the 911. I don't agree, but won't porsche loose a lot of potential customers in the future when they make the Boxster look so much like a 911.

Well it's kinda normall that the standard equipement of the V6 cayenne is less then in the other models. Porsche is trying to compete with the Merc ML & BMW X5 off course, so they had to make a lower priced model. This Targa doesn't look that bad at first sight, but the back of the car still looks a bit weird, pitty.

Thx for all the info st-anger

st-anger

08-09-2003, 04:23 PM

IMO especially the new 911 generation will definately look very cool...a modern car with some "old style" elements from the 993. i`m really looking forward to its release. about the boxster....hmmm.... i`ve never been a real boxster fan..it´s like "i`d like to.... but can`t afford a decent Porsche"! i`d definately go for a BMW Z4 instead.
....well i really can`t understnd why ppl say a Boxster is more attractive than a 911either... :roll:
but something has to be done after 7 years with the old Boxster and over 6 years 996, just look at the production numbers:

2003:
Boxters ~ 20000 units
911 ~ 25000 units

2004:
Boxter -50% 10000 units
911 -30% 17500 units

and now just look at the figures for the Cayenne, which is IMO one of the smartest steps of Porsche and now launching a diesel Cayenne...respect.
so i can`t really see the point of some ppl who are complaining about the Cayenne nowadays, it`s good looking, faster ( "better" ) than any other SUV. and it sales as hell.
955 figures for 2003:
Cayenne ~ 25000 units

2004:
+37.5% 40000 units

so the main production won`t be sportscars in 2004, so nobody can say the 955 is useless, ugly, Porsche`s biggest mistake or whatever....
if it hasn`t that high fuel consumption i`d purchase one right away on monday... :wink:

08-09-2003, 04:28 PM

Hehe, I agree with you dude. The Cayene hit hard and bring home serious money! And now with a smaller engine and a diesel one, it would even improve IMO...

BTW, here Cayennes begin to be everywhere... look this pic.. I tried to take a Murci in pic, but the camera took ages to take the pic, so I almost missed the Lambo... but look what was there? LOL, a Cayenne! Just by chance... in some month, I'll try to take a random pic with my eyes closed in town and there will be 4 Cayennes in it :P

http://www.flytrap.it/public/ttsib/col032.jpg

sportVeloce

08-10-2003, 06:25 AM

In LA there are Cayennes everywhere. They are getting good penetration into that market. Its cool how they still maintain the real porsche look.

TT -> Nice pic. Thats funny... you nearly missed the Murceilago and got a Cayenne. Hehe... Nice to see you out with your cam ready for any Lambos. Was it a special trip or do you carry your cam everywhere?

08-10-2003, 06:39 AM

TT -> Nice pic. Thats funny... you nearly missed the Murceilago and got a Cayenne. Hehe... Nice to see you out with your cam ready for any Lambos. Was it a special trip or do you carry your cam everywhere?

Usually when it's a nice day, I bring the camera with me, just in case :)

st-anger

08-11-2003, 07:04 AM

- no mobile phones for visitors -
- 8 for 911-

due to industrial espionage with the new Mulit Messaging System mobile phones, Porsche can`t permit visitors with such a mobil phone to their factories.
the funny thing is that a ( ....now ex- ) employee made the picture of the GT3 RS
right after that VW and BWM also can`t permit MMS mobile phones for visitors any more....

this info is already quite old but maybe some don`t know yet...
the spy shots from the 997 indicates big news for Porsche enthusiasts:
flared wheel arches, door sill extensions and a significantly increased rear-track width.
the wider track will mean even more impressive handling, but more importantly, increased space in the engine bay would provide room for an eight-cylinder engine for the first time in a 911.
although Porsche isn`t confirming anything, instead the company has hinted an evolution of the existing 3.6ltr. flat six engine. this leads to the conclusion that the rumoured 450hp 5.0 ltr. flat-eight engine is a addition to the 6cyl. or the "S" version. but it would be nice to have a 5.0ltr. 8cyl. ..... even nicer after turbocharging it....
there are said to be no less than thirteen variants of the 997 scheduled, starting with the six-cylinder Carrera Coupe in spring 2004. new models will be rolled out at six-month intervals, with cabriolet and targa models to follow, and both Turbo and GT variants as well as the S. The S is likely to be more comfort-orientated than the all-out Turbos and GTs, and will come in coupe, targa or cabriolet form. Expect also Carrera 4 4WD models.

...another interesting info from german magazine "Auto Motor Sport":they recently talked of a two-door "Kombi-Coupe" to rival the BMW M3, powered by that V8 engine - mounted at the front...

AlienDB7

08-12-2003, 02:01 PM

http://www.supercars.net/cars/2004@$Porsche@$911%20Turbo%20Cabrioletg.html
2004 Porsche 911 Turbo Cabriolet

666fast

08-12-2003, 06:49 PM

i like where Porsche is headed with thier cars. i think they all look great and will no doubt have the performance Porsche is known for.
the 997, in my opinion, looks great. I love the wide stance.
The Boxster is very nice I think.
I've always liked the Cayenne. Hell, I have a huge poster of one in my room. I'm sure Porsche will make money off of it, I think they sold out the first year of trucks that will be avaliable here.

St. Anger, if you find anything about Porsche taking the Carrera GT racing, please post it! It's a great car and I've wanted to see Porsche take it racing in a factory backed effort since they first showed it.

1zippo1

08-12-2003, 06:58 PM

I've read in a car magazine that Porsche isn't "officially" planning to take it racing but Mazarati should go racing with their car (the one with the enzo engine in it) and maybe Lamborghini will have a racing version of the Gallardo. In that case, Porsche will probably follow with their GT. So lets all pray this happens :wink:

666fast

08-12-2003, 08:30 PM

And lets hope they bring them to my side of the pond!
:lol:

st-anger

08-13-2003, 10:56 AM

- new GT2 October 2003 -

well it`s not a new one but the flat-six engine will have 483hp (+21hp) and 472lb-ft ( 640Nm) (+20Nm)
0-62mph: 4.0sec, 0-124mph: 12.5sec, top speed: 198mph
av.fuel cons.: 12.9ltr
price: 184.674€

there`ll be modifications at front and rear axle, suspension and brakes which are more sensitive now with the new four channel antilock brake systems. the rear wing is imroved aerodynamical, is 2.8kg lighter and as an option it can be delivered non painted with carbon style.
in the Clubsport version the rear wing, sideview mirrors, and parts of the front wing are also in carbon. for braking PCCB is used and the wheels have GT3 style ( front: 235/40 R18, rear:315/30 R18 )

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/GT2_new.JPG

1zippo1

08-13-2003, 11:42 AM

That will surely be one fast track machine... as the current GT2 allready is.

It seems no drastical changes, just some improvements. Don't think those couple kg weight saved (maybe 5 in total) will matter so much... A more powerfull engine is off course allways an improvement.

st-anger

08-13-2003, 11:54 AM

St. Anger, if you find anything about Porsche taking the Carrera GT racing, please post it! It's a great car and I've wanted to see Porsche take it racing in a factory backed effort since they first showed it.

you guys`ll be one of the first to know...
what a pitty that you are from "the other side of the pond" because otherwise your chances of seeing one would be much higher.
i`ve seen the CGT racing several times during my work at Weissach, where Roland Kussmaul ( Weissach`s chief test driver ) and Michael Hölscher ( overall project manager CGT ) raced the test track with it and of course in the aerodynamic dep., sound dep. ..... i think you all know the vid with the yellow CGT racing around the Weissach test track in winter...it`s kinda like that.
but the best thing was when i`d been invited to attend the filming of a official presentation video around the test rack in Leipzig. test driver had been "the god" Walther Röhrl, the only person who really knows how to push the CGT to its limits. that laps have been the most impressive ones i`ve ever seen.
of course everybody can see it when there is a car show somewhere around but to see it driving is a very special moment.
i hope i can attend a presentation day that summer/fall. instuctors will introduce the customers to their new cars and they are able to take a round on the "hot seat" because there`ll be only two production CGT`s for that. and i think it`s better not to let the owners drive it for the first time on a race track....this might get expensive. the ppl who signed a contract to buy a CGT`ll have the chance to drive with a 996TT and/or a GT2.
the dates seems to be confirmed now, because the first presentation should have been on 2nd of july but all the dates were cancelled. now the first presentation starts on Aug.20th and the following two weeks.

but back to the main topic....
as i posted before motorsport activities are all postponed because of the 955 and 997 modells. just imagine how much work that would be preparing a CGT for LeMans .....or whatever. and the guys from the motorsport dep. at Weissach have enough work with the GT3`s from the Porsche Supercup. so i see no chance of a motorsport project with the CGT before 2007 to 2010. it depends on the 997TT.... some sources say it`ll appear right after the 997 C modells others say it won`t hit the road before 2006 or 2007.....

st-anger

08-14-2003, 05:42 AM

- Merc SLR vs. CGT -

some interesting news…
due to the development of the 955 modells engineers from the CGT project were called to help shortly before finishing the CGT racing car for LeMans.
the power output of that engine`d been 580hp. however, to see how competitive the CGT was against the SLR the two development teams did a test drive, and the CGT lost the race. hence the CGT has been upgraded to 612 hp as a result of this defeat, and Mercedes has responded by raising its horsepower to 626 hp. This is one of the major reasons why the SLR has been considerably delayed.

scubywrxr

08-16-2003, 05:27 AM

The CGT is more of a drivers car than the SLR..

the porsche is manual shift, mid engined and looks like it just drove off from the Lemans circuit.. SLR is too GT for my liking - they could have done so much with it. Its a pity that Mercedes did not push the boat out further.

Apparently the enzo is going to be lapped by the CGT around Nurburgring? Is there any truth to this? will there be porsche sport division performance upgrades for it as well?

st-anger

08-16-2003, 09:07 AM

Apparently the enzo is going to be lapped by the CGT around Nurburgring? Is there any truth to this? will there be porsche sport division performance upgrades for it as well?

i don`t think that there`ll be a supertest Enzo vs. CGT but i`m 99% sure the CGT would win that battle dur to its vast development testing on the Nordschleife. because of that Ferrari will never allow one of their Enzos to challenge the Ring, so anyone with an Enzo in the garage on this forum...
the only good chance of getting a head to head testing between Enzo, CGT and SLR is when german car magazine "Sport Auto" tests them on the Nordschleife.

some estimated but also likely figures:

Nordschleife: 07.20 min
Hockenheim: 01.07 min
0-124-0: 14sec (0-124: 9.6s 124-0: 4.4s)
aerodynamics: 124mph: front axle +60kg, rear axle +140kg
max. g-force: 1.45G

st-anger

08-16-2003, 09:12 AM

-997TT testing video on the Nordschleife -

i`m not sure if you guys have already seen this one ( it`s some days old )
a friend of mine sent me the link:

http://movies.autoexpress.co.uk/Porsche911Turbo-082003.mov

08-20-2003, 07:49 AM

Just stumbled across some wallpapers with the new GT2 ;)

-> http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/12/911gt204_01_1024.jpg
-> http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/12/911gt204_03_1024.jpg

They're done with the pics we already saw the official ones...

st-anger

08-21-2003, 05:07 AM

- the truth is near -

can`t wait for the next issue of "AMS"
just look at this unspectacular announcement:

http://www.auto.t-online.de/ams/?te_startPos=03

it´s german but it says that what we all are waiting for:

Ferrari Enzo vs. Porsche Carrera GT vs. Lamborghini Gallardo on the Nordschleife.

already marked sept. 3rd in my calendar.....

draak666

08-21-2003, 06:13 AM

It would be nice to know when they will test it, so we can be there and witness it LIVE. :P

st-anger

08-21-2003, 08:09 AM

i`m 100% sure the already did the comparison during a "industry pool" day....
but anyway i`d die to attend that battle when the CGT kick`s the Enzo`s ass...hopefully... :wink:
i don´t know why the added the Gallardo to that two, although i think it might be even faster than the Murc. around the Nordschleife...

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGTEnzoGall.JPG

your thoughts on that....

666fast

08-21-2003, 04:32 PM

My thoughts are hell yea! I just hope someone is there to record it! lol
We all know that the Enzo and the Carrera GT are fast cars, but I'm honestly not sure what will be faster around the Nordschliefe.
I love the Enzo, but I'm rooting for the Carrera.
Thanks for the awesome news St. Anger! I like your sig pic too.

1zippo1

08-21-2003, 05:29 PM

That's some very interesting news.

Plz try and make some scans from the article, I'm more then willing to host them for you on my webspace!!!
I can understand a bit German so.

I don't think the Gallardo stands a chance however... I don't quite understand why they took that as the third car. A Koenigsegg or a Pagani would have been a better choice. I would love to see a comparison between the Pagani and those other two.

To be honest I think the Enzo is gonna wip the CGT's ass big time (if we're talking about speed). But lets just wait and see.

st-anger

08-22-2003, 07:47 AM

well, you guys`ll be the first to know...

some new boxter pics:
don`t lile the look, but i don`t like the Boxter at all...

http://a298.g.akamai.net/7/298/5382/082103230811/www.eletra.com/autospies/word_images/4131070_image001.jpg

the interiour of all new Porsche modells`ll be a bit Cayenne like....

http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/30646.jpg

btw zippo ( ...everybody !!? ) what times do you estimate...????

08-22-2003, 08:22 AM

Actually this new coupé version is not bad IMO :)

1zippo1

08-22-2003, 08:25 AM

08-22-2003, 08:35 AM

What times... mmmm that's a hard one, very hard. Here's my guess:

Enzo: 7min 10sec (if they have a really really good driver)
Porsche CGT: 7min 20sec
Gallardo: 7 min 45sec

maybe a bit over positive... hard to tell... can't wait for the real results :D

Very hard to guess.. I think they'll be a little slower, but not sure... The 996 GT3 is around 7:55 or something like that... can the baby Lambo be 10 seconds faster... possible :D

As for an almost 7 min time for the Enzo, it would be amazing, but maybe it will be a little slower... but I'm not an expert and BTW, is there somewhere a site with all the times for the Ring, up to date if possible? I never found it...

st-anger

08-22-2003, 10:43 AM

now i`m a bit of an expert and mainly everything concearning Porsche, so i really don`t have an idea about the Enzo`s lap time, but from the technical view it might be equally fast than the GCT, but it would surprise me as hell if the Enzo`d be faster than the CGT.
i think it´s nearly impossible.

BUT guys.....
i think we`re expecting a bit too much of that test of AMS....
we don`t know anything about it.
my estimated lap time for the CGT is only possible with the right driver, such as Walter Röhrl or a equally good driver that can handle the CGT, Enzo.... ( is that possible...???? )
i think even for a decent and very skilled ring driver such as horst v. saurma it`d be impossible to drive such times without practicing a lot...
next chapter: the tyres...just look at the CSL vs. GT3....

btw a 7:10 for the Enzo ?????
just to compare: Clay Regazzoni clocked a 7:06 with a F1 Ferrari
and Olaf Manthey a 7:17 with a GTR3-MR in the 2002 VLN.

TT i think this is the site you`re searching for:
http://www.track-challenge.com/main_e.asp

1zippo1

08-22-2003, 11:46 AM

Oops, sorry. As I said, I'm not an expert on the ring... I only had a few times to base my time on. And the best was a X5 Le Mans with 800hp (7:30), but that thing was pretty high above the ground and weight a lot so I thought the Enzo should do a lot better.

I still think that the Enzo will do better then the CGT, but you know a lot more then cars then I do, so I'll probably be wrong :wink:

Oh and why, well the power to weight ratio of the enzo is better, or am I mistaken again?

08-22-2003, 12:26 PM

Thanks st-anger, but I already know that site :) it's simply not enough LOL :D

st-anger

08-23-2003, 05:53 PM

I still think that the Enzo will do better then the CGT, but you know a lot more then cars then I do, so I'll probably be wrong :wink:

Oh and why, well the power to weight ratio of the enzo is better, or am I mistaken again?

well thx for the compliment, but although i`ve studied that kind of stuff and always been working in the automobil industry my guesses can be completely wrong, but technically, the CGT should be faster, that`s for sure...

well, so lets take a closer look Enzo vs. CGT…
for me as a technician i immediately thought of the battle Porsche 959 vs. Ferrari F40 back in the 90`s. they were both brilliant cars but each in a very different way. the raw racecar sportiness and fury of the F40 vs the technologically ahead of its time and effective 959.
and history repeats itself: the Enzo again is the raw racecar with no compromises and the CGT is the state of the art car in terms of new technologies. Porsche registered over 70 patents on the CGT. Just think of PCCC, PCCB and the the first production car to feature a monocoque chassis and engine/transmission mounts made of carbon-fibre-reinforced plastic.
As said before both are incredible cars, but on the one hand the Enzo is a bit too much screaming “ohhh just look at me”, on the other hand the CGT doesn`t have to, I think it`s simply the better looking car, from inside and outside. I`ve only seen the CGT from inside but it just looks beautiful and it`s more streetable, again inside and to drive. Is it just up to me or are many Enzo customers more on the 'garage-queen'/'occasional track toy' side, because of its exclusivity. to be precise, more a collectors item. On the other hand the CGT has been designed to be driven for real due to it`s vast development on the Nordschleife. even engineers from BMW who were also testing on the nordschleife during “indurtry pool” sessions reckon that the CGT will be the first production car to break the 7:30 mark, not a single word about the Enzo. sure this has also been one of Ferrari´s goals but the main test track of the Enzo`d been Fiorano so this is really no comparison to the nordschleife, and the CGT has been tested there and at Weissach test track. so i think the Enzo might do better on “normal” tracks (flat, smooth, etc), but the CGT is going to be the best choice for the nordschleife, for sure. hopefully there`ll be no surprises....
i think i`ve posted that before but just to sum it up, there had been a secret comparison carried out by Porsche at the Papenburg proving grounds. the result: the two cars are very equal in performance, also in handling terms in the dry, but the CGT has a better wet grip and handling. so, the downforce of the CGT is more appreciated than a few extra mph or some seconds faster acceleration times, just look at the coefficient of drag: CGT: 0.39, Enzo: 0.37
996 TT: 0.31.
some other figures are interesting, the Enzo did 1.36gs of transverse acceleration on a 400m radius at Fiorano, Ferrari engineers claim it can easily do 1.4gs. to compare a standard GT2 can do 1.35gs ...no problem, a M3 CSL ( with michelin pilot sport tyres ) 1.4gs
concearning the weight there are many confusions every manufactorer claims their car is the lightest, has the better power to weight ratio or whatever.
The problem with that weight figures is the difference between EG and DIN measurement:
The DIN weight ist the curb or unladen weight, the EG weight includes a standard 65kg driver and 7kg luggage. So I´ve seen serveral different figures, by the end of 2001 the CGT had been ever 150kg lighter than the production car nowadays to make it more driveable after walter röhrl`s first test drives, but I´ll comment on that later…
So here are the ( hopefully exactely ) figures:

CGT DIN: 1380kg
EG: 1452kg
Enzo DIN: 1365kg
EG: 1437kg

So power to weight ration is about 2.25 kg/hp to 2.1kg/hp.
0-60 wins the Enzo, +48hp, launch control, F1 style shifting paddles, 0-124…we can only guess, but the CGT has a 1/4 mile time of 10.9 sec which is faster than the Ferrari Enzo's 11.1 sec. 0-60-0 or 0-186-0 would be interesting. top speeds…who is interessted in that…???
it`s a useless topic, but there`ll be test drives at Nardo or places like that, just for showing off and marketing...
so back to the things walter röhrl said about the CGT. one day the engineering team was about to cancel the a day´s testing at the nordschkeife because of bad weather but röhrl insisted the car had to be tested in slippery conditions too, and when he arrived back from that lap he was white. So that’s why the car is now 150kg heavier, due to several safety instalations such as TC and ESP…although originally Porsche had no plans to fit any electronically stabillity systems only röhrls insistence forced Porsche to develop these things for the CGT.
without all that stuff röhrl said before: "the first car in my life that i drive and i feel scared".
now the next statement is an interesting one as well: “at the nürburgring, i´ve tested the car with several tyre combinations and found that the 20-inch Michelin tyres, while excellent in the dry, were more of a handful in the wet than the equivalent Pirellis, on which I´ve been 20 ( !!!! ) seconds a lap quicker around the 22km circuit”
When he was asked to estimate a lap time he said: “ we develop the car to be the best we can possibly build and then put a stop watch on it. we don't come up with a time and say 'this is what we must achieve' because then you have a limit."
The best time so far during the test sessions`ve been a 7:36 but without any pressure of clocking a good lap, röhrl said.
now here`s something maybe only a hand full ppl know just to show on what level the test sessions are. i´ve the info from my very reliable source, because there were so many rumours about that accident.....very funny to read that some ppl are completely wrong and are thinking they know a lot....
During a testing session röhrl pushed a bit too hard, hit a curb you shouldn`t hit at “Kallenhard” and all of a sudden the airbags opened up. The airbag hit back the helmet of röhrl and he shortly lost control of the car, which touched a wall and was slightly damaged on the left side. the rumours said the car was completely wrecked, röhrl seriously injured ( ...because of the helicopter transport...)and it d been his fault. to be sure everything is fine with röhrl he was brought to hospital to Bonn by helicopter, but they found nothing and he left the hospital immediately, to look what`s happened to the car.
And the best is yet to come…when someone asked mr. kussmaul which car is faster, the Enzo or CGT, he replied “ the Enzo is a true racecar for the track, and the CGT with the setup it is sold to the customers, a streetable sportscar you can drive everyday. But we have another setup for the track too, so don`t worry ”

08-23-2003, 05:59 PM

Very nice little "walkthrough" :)

Just curious, not sure, but I guess Porsche did more hours at the Ring that Ferrari did :) maybe it can help too :D

st-anger

08-23-2003, 06:04 PM

what i know, the Enzo never laped the nordschleife during developement process...

08-23-2003, 06:18 PM

Really? Never? Dang, every car lap the Nurburgring lately, during developpement, even Maybach and such :P

fireguy

08-26-2003, 03:30 PM

i think the enzo takes it, but this will depend on how good the driver(s) are; wish i knew deutch.......my wife is german but i'm too lazy to have her teach me :lol: i'll just get her to translate it for me.......

st-anger

09-01-2003, 03:01 PM

well, i arrived back from holidays today and it seems like i really missed everything...
a former colleague during my time at Porsche Weissach mailed me on the 26th of october that he just attended the "CGT experience" for the customers the day before. sadly he won`t be a owner some time, but he managed to attend, we call this our "Weissach bonus"...
as i posted before there were two CGT´s a black and a silver one, with proffesional drivers to show the customers the true potential of the car. the customers weren`t allowed to test drive a CGT but a C2, C4S, TT,TT X50, GT2, Cayenne TT & S. many of the ppl attending were also Cayenne drivers and the instructors showed them also the real potential of the Porsche SUV around the track, and yes, you can drift with a 955TT properly.... the 955S was mainly for off road use...
my friend arrived at midday where the customers had lunch at that time. Porsche has quite a program for CGT customers, not only the standard Leipzig factory tour...
by the time they reached the airport ( ...when they were comming by plane...many customers were from usa or something like that ) a Cayenne picked them up and they were brought to a well known hotel in leipzig.
an exclusive dinner in a top restaurant with all inculsive. you can order what you want and as much you want. the following day`s programme: the standard video presentation of the facility and a special CGT vid, lunch at the restaurant, followed by a tour trough the museum. to sum it up a tour of the 7 production lines where the first production car`ll be finished in october. after that, 2-3 hours track experience with the cars i mentioned above. to sum it up, really all of the ppl who had the chance to get a ride in the CGT were speachless due to its performance and the driver`s courage to push it so far, must have been real fun, maybe i´m able to attend a "CGT exp. event" in late october, i´ve told the right ppl that i would like to...
then i`ll be able to provide you some pics too...

fedezyl

09-01-2003, 03:21 PM

st-anger

09-01-2003, 03:41 PM

St-Anger, I never cease to be amazed about your knowledge and connections at Porsche, it's very good to have someone like you on board and i'm glad you have decided to keep us up to date with accurate information about Porsche..
Now, I've read that you specialized in AWD transmissions, but I imagine your engineering knowledge is in all areas too...
Do you work on the automobile industrie now, or what do you do?

my pleasure providing you some infos, sadly ( for you guys... :wink: ) i can`t tell you everything i`ve experienced during my time at Weissach, there`d be so much to tell ( developement of Cayenne and CGT, testing on track, GT3 cup cars, engine/transmission developement....)
well i think i know quite some things concerning everything about cars on the technical and also practical side i learned a lot during my time at "Magna" but especially at Porsche. i worked there nearly 24/7 because it`s been so interesting and all the ppl working at Weissach are real proffessionals so it`s very constructive working with them, never boring and the fun when testing on the track has always been superb.
now i´m also working in automobile industry, at Bosch Motronic. we`re developing the next generation of common rail fuel injection systems. so from driveline technology to engine engineering, which is probably the most interesting part of all.

st-anger

09-02-2003, 11:40 AM

anyone interested...???? :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/p208bfa228917956bddacec89e72dbb68/fb347fd7.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/p031d6801ac4ce65adde81b79361b3ca7/fb347fee.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/p34e53769733295c52b47f80d89e0aa38/fb348006.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/p6ed08b39dacb8520582e47f0a9ae8838/fb348020.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/pd3df428345e116342cb464ebb451b20d/fb348047.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/p70d56a2e24e868112952dfcaf8b0f8a4/fb348064.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/pe1df3aa63fda2d2c5878781a51db18da/fb34807b.jpg

666fast

09-02-2003, 01:24 PM

I'm always interested!
The Carrera GT looks awesome in black.

scubywrxr

09-02-2003, 04:37 PM

WOW.. I did not realize that the CGT was that good looking - those camera angles do wonders for its wierd rear 3/4 section.
I like it very much and would take it over the nancy enzo - I know the porsche would survive at least 300 000 miles.. coz if I had it i would drive it every day, everywhere - at least 50 000miles a year :lol:

st-anger

09-03-2003, 08:47 AM

I know the porsche would survive at least 300 000 miles.. coz if I had it i would drive it every day, everywhere - at least 50 000miles a year :lol:

thats a very good comment, because the driver of the black CGT uses that one as a daily driver, so now you can imagine how driveable a supercar can be. i don`t think there are many Enzo drivers who ride their baby every day. he said even in heavy city traffic it`s no problem to drive the CGT properly.

....damm i think i´m gonna sell one or two houses and buy a CGT instead... :wink:

st-anger

09-03-2003, 01:18 PM

today`s the release date of the AMS issue with the test of the CGT vs. Enzo vs. Gallardo in germany.
a friend of mine ( liveing in germany... ) already has the issue and, as i said before...we expected a bit too much of that report. it`s all about general infos on that cars with some quite good pics, but that`s all. a bit disappointing. but the next issue ( sept. 17th ) will feature some real driving impressions from the CGT but again no data about anything...
i`m also still hopeing for a supertest of "Sport Auto" which is probably the best mag testing upper class supercars with pro drivers.
sorry guys...

....here`s something new instead:

- book about CGT -

right after the official release after the 2003 IAA a book about the CGT will occur.
it`s no technical report or anything like that, but the story about a "romantic trip" to the "ile de noirmoutier"
in france. the german high style mag "AutoFocus" has a world exclusive preprint with some of the best high quality pictures so far in mags.

it also features a very interesting interview with chris bangle, one of my favourite guys in automotive industry, although it seems like there are more ppl who hate his style but i simply love it..
otherwise i wouldn`t have two cars out of his collection, maybe a third for my wife soon.

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/AF1.JPG

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/AF2.JPG

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/AF3.JPG

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/AF4.JPG

st-anger

09-04-2003, 09:43 AM

now i`ve the latest AMS too, and it`s really all about...nothing...
the report only features some stuff we already know and the pics aren`t that good too. but again, i´m still looking forward to the next issue...
it would have been so nice to see some clocked times, bacause the drivers of all the cars were real pros, Giorgio Sanna driving the Gallardo, Andrea Favro the Enzo and the one and only Walter Röhrl the CGT.
although there are some rumours that the CGT`d been the fastest car of the "comparison"

here are the pics...

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/AMS2_1.JPG

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/AMS2_2.JPG

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/AMS2_3.JPG

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/AMS2_4.JPG

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/AMS2_5.JPG

st-anger

09-06-2003, 09:02 AM

something i`ve heared after the AMS test with the CGT vs. Enzo vs. Gallardo:
just look at picture number four:
the weights are 1365kg for Enzo, 1430kg for Gallardo and 1455kg for CGT
the funny thing is, and i`ve already written a mail to AMS because this is not the first time they made such mistakes, the Enzo weight is the DIN weight, the Gallardo weight is the dry weight and the CGT`s weight is EG or EU-Norm weight. so there are quite huge differences...
on the one hand the "lightest" of all three but on the other hand the Enzo touched the ground when driving through the famous "Karussell" and even after regulating with the niveau lift the problem with the suspension/chssis couldn`t be solved, so the next point why the Enzo can`t be faster than the CGT. btw, again Porsche enineers etimated that the CGT´ll be 20 sec. faster than the Enzo. i think that is a bit optimistic ( ...maybe they are talking about the ride with the Pirellis but not with the Michelin )
here a little ( ...but funny ) dialog during the AMS photo session...
AMS: "we want to have pictures of all three cars drifting out of "Brünnchen""
Walter Röhrl:" no problem, i´ll drive three laps with three different drift angles through Brünnchen, you can choose the best out of them. "
Giorgio Sanna and Andrea Favro: "no, we won`t do something like that"
W.Röhrl: " ok boys, just give me your cars and i`ll show you how to do that "
...the two didn`t let Röhrl drive and so only one car can be seen drifting in the mag: Röhrl with the CGT... 8)

1zippo1

09-06-2003, 09:46 AM

again Porsche enineers etimated that the CGT´ll be 20 sec. faster than the Enzo. i think that is a bit optimistic ( ...maybe they are talking about the ride with the Pirellis but not with the Michelin )
here a little ( ...but funny ) dialog during the AMS photo session...
AMS: "we want to have pictures of all three cars drifting out of "Brünnchen""
Walter Röhrl:" no problem, i´ll drive three laps with three different drift angles through Brünnchen, you can choose the best out of them. "
Giorgio Sanna and Andrea Favro: "no, we won`t do something like that"
W.Röhrl: " ok boys, just give me your cars and i`ll show you how to do that "
...the two didn`t let Röhrl drive and so only one car can be seen drifting in the mag: Röhrl with the CGT... 8)

Indeed, 20 sec seems to be very optimistic. I'm curious though. But are they gonne use the same driver? Otherwise Walter Rohl will obviously beat the others with the CGT, he knows the track with his eyes closed!!

That conversation was very funny :lol: Would have loved to see their faces when they said this :D

AlienDB7

09-06-2003, 11:38 AM

Not too familiar with the paper version of AMS, do you know if that test will be included in the Auto Motor und Sport show on VOX? Would love to see a video comparison between the 3 cars.... 0X

st-anger

09-06-2003, 11:45 AM

HoboPie

09-06-2003, 06:25 PM

could someone give a slight overview of the article even if it is just stuff we know, there must be some good comments in there.

AlienDB7

09-06-2003, 06:35 PM

666fast

09-06-2003, 06:43 PM

AlienDB7

09-06-2003, 07:24 PM

...AMS on VOX 07092003 at 5pm GMT +01:00

-BMW 530d vs. MB E320CDI
-the guy from poland with his self made SLR
-tuning cars at Nardo
-CGT vs. Enzo vs. Gallardo at Nordschleife

well zippo there won`t be a official comparison between Porsche and Ferrari, but as i said before german car mag "Sport Auto" will surely try their best to compare those two supercars.
Nice!!! Now I just have to wait a month or 2 for it to be shown in english :D

And capture it right? hint hint :wink: :wink:
Haha.. if I don't fall asleep :mrgreen: Most likely I'll have to time record. Just checked the schedule, the AMS on PBS is still showing episodes from early July. It'll be a long wait...

For those who can read german, http://www.vox.de/ams__sendung.php?mainid=20030907&area=faszination

st-anger

09-07-2003, 02:11 PM

the episode was really a special one, high speed runs at Nardo featuring MTM RS6, Brabus SV12, a tuned Maserati, MTM Audi Bimoto and one of my favourites a Techart Porsche GT street S.
as far as i could remember the MTM RS6 ended up with a blown up engine, just before it reached 177mph but the head of MTM Mr.Roland Meyr declared that it can reach 190mph. the Maserati reached 181,4mph, the SV12 203mph although Brabus estimated 205+mph. the Porsche reached 208mph although it should have reached 217mph. the fastest`d been the Bimoto with 232,3mph but MTM declared that it`ll be able to reach 248+mph. AMS is already working on another highspeed supercar test at Nardo so we`ll have to wait and see...

0-60/0-124 test:

Porsche: 3.9 sec / 11.1 sec
SV12: 4.5 sec / 13.9 sec
Maserati: 4.9 sec / 13.9 sec
Bimoto and RS6: no test due to engine problems

but the main reason why to watch that episode had been the vid of the "comparison" between the CGT, Enzo and Gallardo. thanks to god most of the time the CGT was shown and a little interview with Walter Röhrl: "the CGT is a pure racecar with it`s mid-engine layout. the body only makes very few movements has nearly no side inclination and has a very neutral handling."
some onboad driving, passing the camera before a corner, very nice drifting sequences and the sound....truely amazing for ppl who see the CGT for the first time in action.
the Enzo and the Gallardo....wasn`t really interested....just gimme that CGT !!!

SFDMALEX

09-07-2003, 02:33 PM

The CGT 20sec faster LOOOOOOOOL. 20 sec is huge, huge, huge.

BTW Why did they put the Galardo in that test? The car isnt even close to the performance of the CGT or the Enzo.

st-anger

09-09-2003, 04:50 PM

http://www2.porsche.de/german/deu/news/autoshows/iaa2003/default.htm

click "weltpremieren" and GT3RS......very good video....

09-09-2003, 05:15 PM

Great video! Dang, the original one seems so small :D

1zippo1

09-10-2003, 05:01 AM

Indeed a nice video!! Thx for the link st-ranger.

Does anyone know the exact specs of the GT3 RS? I wonder if it's much better then the normal GT3 or if it's just a attempt from Porsche to draw the publics attention because the old 911 RS was so famous.

Imre

09-10-2003, 05:07 AM

Nice video but the backround music sucks.If you want specs you should find those from Porsches website.I know that the rs is lighter than the gt3.

09-10-2003, 05:08 AM

Well, first of all the RS serves as an homologation model for various GT championships, so this is its main purpose. The engine is the same, it has around 380 hp, 0-62 mph 4,4s and top end will be around 190 mph, but the car is more than 100 lbs lighter, ence a best power to weight ratio.

1zippo1

09-10-2003, 05:28 AM

st-anger

09-10-2003, 07:56 AM

as TT said, there are quite some differences between the GT3 and RS. the 2004 RS should be the base of the successor of today`s international GT cup GT3.
the power to weight ratio is 4.86kg/kw wich is four percent better than the p.t.w.r. of the GT3 clubsport. although the DIN weight of the RS is only ~1350kg a Ferrari CS has a DIN weight of 1280kg, but Porsche advises not to take the optional A/C because without it the car is 20-30kg lighter. also the optional xenon headlights are not that good for ppl who`d like to drive it on the track only, because due to accidents or little stones on the track they might get damaged and to change them is quite expensive. not many ppl are going to install PCCBs because when racing only on tracks the wear rate of the pads is quite high, and just look at the Cup GT3`s. no PCCBs at all, although they`d be a lot lighter. the 2004 RS is delivered with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires as standard equipment, so on the one hand very high gs can be achieved ( e.g. 1.4gs with a M3 CSL ) but on the other hand again a high wear rate of the tyres.
the street version features some details which are exactely the same as in the upcomming race version, like the complete wheel carriers, shared transversal axis at front and rear axis, enhanced chassis geometry, rear window made of acryl, bonnet and rear wing made of carbon, also the connection between engine and gearbox takes place over a one-mass flywheel which has a smaller rotation mass than a two-mass flywheel.
the engine is nearly the same as in the GT3, the redline is at 8200rpm, it has a hp / Liter ratio of 105.83 hp, which is the same as in the GT3 but a special air collector under the rear wing provides more air to the engine, so that it can provide better power at high speeds. concerning speed, the RS is a bit cross-wind susceptibly at speeds over 155mph. 0-124mph: ~14sec. 0-60 and top speed as TT said. the handling is quite different between full and empty tank, so to sum it all up the overall handling is really compareable with a Cup race GT3. but it`s also driveable in everydays life, not just like the 964RS which carries the slogan: on the track unbeatable, on the way to the track undriveable...

1zippo1

09-10-2003, 08:03 AM

Ah ok. Now I must be up to date after all that info :P Damn St-ranger you really follow everything going on at Porsche.

So basically, the car will be different from the normal GT3 (lighter and more race-efficient).

st-anger

09-10-2003, 09:43 AM

Ah ok. Now I must be up to date after all that info :P Damn St-ranger you really follow everything going on at Porsche.

concerning "following everything", some GOOD news, some of you might find interesting...

i can`t promise you anything guys, but there`s something happening next month... 8)

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGT_2.jpg

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGT_4.JPG

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGT_3.JPG

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGT_5.JPG
^^^^^ :shock: :shock: :shock:

i´ll keep you up to date.... BUT...

....late october might get hotter than the whole summer.... :wink:

Imre

09-10-2003, 10:00 AM

I thougt that I know something about porsche but you st-anger are a real Porsche guru.

1zippo1

09-10-2003, 10:08 AM

Ah ok. Now I must be up to date after all that info :P Damn St-ranger you really follow everything going on at Porsche.

concerning "following everything", some GOOD news, some of you might find interesting...

i can`t promise you anything guys, but there`s something happening next month... 8)

^^^^^ :shock: :shock: :shock:

i´ll keep you up to date.... BUT...

....late october might get hotter than the whole summer.... :wink:

Now you made me curious. Is it possible that they will go racing with the CGT as I hoped... (because Lambo and Masarti most probably will).

PS: what do those ^^^^^^ mean???

st-anger

09-10-2003, 01:36 PM

...nice guess zippo but something like that might happen some years later...

- CGT infos -

after the press days of the IAA ( 09. + 10.09.2003 ) international press`ll be able to testdrive the CGT, so the earliest dates are later this week or beginning next week.
so far seven CGT`s ( no final production versions !!! ) are ready to drive, mainly for PR events and press. i know about one confirmed test drive of the CGT from AMS, comming into stores on 17th of sept. i`ll review it for you, and tell you the most important details.
it has also been said, that the first 1000+ orders are confirmed, and Porsche estimates that after the IAA nearly all 1500 units are sold or someone has an option on it. the first customer cars will start in production in late october at a rate of only two cars per day. this is not only because it`s hand made, but the provider of the carbon fiber body, an italian specialist, also delivers Ferrari for the Enzo with carbon fiber parts. next year the production`ll be three cars a day ( exactely 2.7 cars ) because then the production of the 299 Enzos will be finished.

i don`t know if anyone is interested into business matters but well, here we go:

- Porsche sales figures -

although the economic situation in germany is bad as hell and the economical overall situation is also weak, Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG achieved strong growth during the 2002/03 fiscal year. all the criticizer disappeared, because the Cayenne proved to be a motor for growth, with its excellent road dynamics and off-road capabilities the Cayenne earned worldwide praise and resulted in successful sales.
so sales rose by 23.2 percent to 66,803 vehicles in all, which are 12,569 units more than in the previous year.
73,284 cars were produced altogether, 33,1 percent more than in the previous year (55,050 units).
new sales and profit records were achieved as well. the Porsche Group’s turnover went up by 15 percent to 5.6 billion € (4.86 billion € in the previous year). there was also a significant increase in profit before taxes, despite the investment needed for the start of Cayenne production and its world-wide market launch.
despite the uncertain economic situation, Porsche is optimistic about the current 2003/04 fiscal year. new versions of its 911 model, including the Carrera 4S convertible, Turbo convertible, the GT3 RS and the “911 40th anniversary” special edition will contribute new sales impetus. the high-performance Carrera GT sports car will be the high-end addition to the sports car range. Porsche expects its sales and turnover to continue to rise, especially as a result of the addition of a six-cylinder version to the Cayenne model program.

Imre

09-10-2003, 01:57 PM

to st-anger:I`v heard that cayenne is going to get a facelift at the end of the 2004 year because it does not fulfill the expectations.Is it true or not?

1zippo1

09-10-2003, 02:09 PM

My god, you lucky m*****f*cker, you'll get to test drive the CGT. Amazing :D

Tell us all about it afterwards.

st-anger

09-10-2003, 03:36 PM

imre, i`ve no infos on that, but i think 2004 is not likely...
but i´ll try to find out something about this.

well zippo, this is all i´ll say so far: :D

st-anger

09-15-2003, 09:38 AM

My god, you lucky m*****f*cker, you'll get to test drive the CGT. Amazing :D

Tell us all about it afterwards.

just checked my mailbox and what do i see.... a mail from "Porsche Leipzig special vehicles departement" (SF=Sonderfahrzeuge):

i`ve a confirmed date for a test drive with the CGT on 21st of october 13:00 - 17:30 pm... :D :D :D
that`s all....
so keep an eye on the "Porsche news" here on JW where i´ll post an exclusive report just for you guys here, on the 22nd or 23rd of oct. :wink:

:arrow: a big thx to julia todt, who`s in charge of the SF public relations. she made this possible for me....i simply love that girl... :!:

09-15-2003, 10:10 AM

http://www.flytrap.it/public/ttsib/smilies/yippee.gif

Amazing dude!!!!!!!!!! You're lucky!!! Do you think you'll be able to take vids too? :P

draak666

09-15-2003, 10:15 AM

i`ve a confirmed date for a test drive with the CGT on 21st of october 13:00 - 17:30 pm... :D :D :D
that`s all....
Damn, that's still 36 days of sleep. :D

stradale

09-15-2003, 10:15 AM

I'm not much of a Porsche fan (although I greatly respect their abilities), but the CGT is one of the few I really like. Ever since I saw the prototype a few years ago I was very impressed. Also the mid-engine layout and a V10 instead of a flat six appealed to me.

So you get to drive it for two and a half hours?!? :shock: I'd be in heaven too. That is so cool... 8) Everyone on the planet is hoping to get a chance at driving it and you get to spend two and a half hours in it. Where can you drive it? Have they specially hired a track for the press where you can drive too or do they just give you the keys and show you the exit off the factory terrain?

I just saw it's not two and a half hours, but four and a half! Jeez, that's even better.

Johns

09-15-2003, 12:05 PM

dammm thats sick, u get to drive the CGT. congrats, take pics/video if u can :shock:

st-anger

09-15-2003, 01:21 PM

to answer some of your questions,
as you can read on site one of the "Porsche news" cameras and camcorders are prohibited due to the reason i`ve posted.
so this is not only for ppl who visit the factory grounds, even for me, who worked at Porsche, a rule is a rule, BUT i´m still negotiating with Porsche Leipzig to come to a good compromise for me and them.
so as you can imagine i`d cut off an arm to film the CGT racing around the track and take some pictures, which are unique, because the chance to get such a ride is nearly unique.

to stradale`s questions, i won`t have it for 4 1/2 hours and this event is not only for me there`ll be some other lucky bastards around.
and don`t you know Porsche Leipzig??? they`ve a test track right next to the factory, a off road for the Cayenne and a regular track for the CGT which is also manufactured in Leipzig.
they`d be kinda stupid to give anyone the key and let `em drive outside the factory grounds...i`d never be seen again.... :lol:

maybe this helps:

http://www.porsche-leipzig.com/en/default.htm

st-anger

09-15-2003, 01:29 PM

- the fourth Porsche -

The so-called fourth Porsche now under study by the German luxury sports-car maker likely will be positioned well below the company’s current range, CEO Wendelin Wiedeking disclosed at the Frankfurt auto show last week.

“We are thinking about a fourth model range, and we have good ideas,” he said. “But if the car we have in mind comes to the market, we will have fewer friends than we have today,” he joked, a reference to the competition the car would pose to other automakers.

He would not disclose the proposed vehicle’s body style.
Industry sources have said that Porsche has been studying a four-passenger coupe, code-named E2A, and a four-door sedan, code-named E2B.
Wiedeking also said Porsche will increase production of the Cayenne SUV by an undisclosed amount next year in the face of higher-than-expected demand. The company has capacity to build 25,000 Cayennes a year at its plant in Leipzig, Germany, but sold 20,603 in its first eight months on the market.

“It seems that existing capacity is too low,” he said.

The size of the production increase will be announced at year end, Wiedeking said.
Unlike the 911 and Boxster, the Cayenne derives far less than half its worldwide sales from the U.S. market. Demand for the Cayenne has been high in the Mideast, Asia and Eastern Europe, Wiedeking said.
U.S. sales of the Cayenne through August totaled 7,514, according to the Automotive News Data Center.
The SUV, Porsche’s first, is priced at $56,665, including destination fees in the United States. A turbo model stickers for $89,665.
Porsche will introduce an entry-level Cayenne equipped with a
250- hp Volkswagen V-6 engine next year, but Wiedeking dismissed speculation that potential buyers would shun the model because it won’t have a Porsche powerplant.
Two 1970s-era Porsche models, the 914 and 924, were flops in large part because they were built around VW components and powerplants.

“We have spent heavily to improve the VW engine,” Wiedeking said. “It will sell. What is more important will be the price.”

Wiedeking said Porsche anticipates that the Cayenne V-6 buyer will trade up to the V-8 model or to the Turbo, as buyers of Boxsters tend to trade up to 911s.

stradale

09-15-2003, 02:43 PM

to stradale`s questions, i won`t have it for 4 1/2 hours and this event is not only for me there`ll be some other lucky bastards around.
and don`t you know Porsche Leipzig??? they`ve a test track right next to the factory, a off road for the Cayenne and a regular track for the CGT which is also manufactured in Leipzig.
they`d be kinda stupid to give anyone the key and let `em drive outside the factory grounds...i`d never be seen again.... :lol:

maybe this helps:

http://www.porsche-leipzig.com/en/default.htm

Thanks for the info st-anger. I asked because it wasn't exactly clear to me how your day with the CGT was going to look like. As I mentioned I'm not really a Porsche fan, so this Leipzig business is new to me. Sorry about that. I imagine that the press is given the chance to drive it out in the open road too. Maybe not in october, but sooner or later that should happen, shouldn't it? I can understand Porsches point of view though. After a few hours all their CGTs would have vanished. All hiding out in garages of people like you :D

1zippo1

09-15-2003, 02:47 PM

i`ve a confirmed date for a test drive with the CGT on 21st of october 13:00 - 17:30 pm... :D :D :D
that`s all....
Damn, that's still 36 days of sleep. :D

I don't think I would sleep for the next 36 days if I were you. Too much anticipation :P

Thx for the info. So they Porsche will probably build a rival for the M3/S4... I'm very interested to see what they'll make of it. I hope everyone won't be too sceptic about it. After all it's not because it isn't a coupé that it isn't cool.

Chingachgook

09-16-2003, 06:32 AM

I've heard rumors about a 911 GTD... oh SHIT!

st-anger

09-16-2003, 10:22 AM

I've heard rumors about a 911 GTD... oh SHIT!

yep i`ve heared that too some time ago, but this is completely nonsense.
the article everyone is referring to this topic is from the "spiggl".
http://www.spiggl.de/spiggl_porsche_gtd ( sorry it`s german )
this online "newspaper" is making fun of the original "Spiegel" http://www.spiegel.de/ a well known german newspaper.

i think we won´t see a 911 with a diesel engine in the near/far future...

AlienDB7

09-16-2003, 12:29 PM

This week's Auto Motor und Sport on DW-TV:

Fascination: 5 tuned sports cars at the high-speed track in Nardo
Report: Opel Eco Speedster
Drive Report: The SsangYong Rexton SUV
Fascination: Part Two - Nardo Speed and Performance Tests
Cult: An SLR made in Poland

At the famous Nardo test track in southern Italy 5 customised cars are pushed to their limit: the Audi TT bimotor from MTM – can 2 engines make 400 kmh?

The Brabus SV 12 – can it hit 330?
The Audi RS6 – can a family car go faster than 300 kmh?
How much performance can you get out of the Maserati Coupé from the tuning company Modena?
And can the favorite, the Porsche GT Street S from Techart, reach 350 kmh?

I think the next broadcast today should be in English.

666fast

09-16-2003, 04:05 PM

I caught the last few minutes of that show last night Alien. Do you plan on capturing it? That would rule if you did. :wink: :lol:

Have you guys seen the 40th anniversary 911 yet?
All they added was a turbo exterior and 25bhp, but still pretty cool.

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=&content_code=08252508

AlienDB7

09-17-2003, 12:49 AM

I time recorded it with streambox VCR but the server keeps disconnecting. No problem watching it with realone player though. I'll try to cap it off PBS this weekend. It's one of the best auto motor und sport episode I've seen so far.

st-anger

09-17-2003, 09:04 AM

- CGT competitor !? -

Porsche-tuner Alois Ruf is developing a own sport car for end of 2004. based on the technology ot the 911 TT the RUF sportscar should deliver 700hp and should be able to reach 220mph. on the Salzburg ring in Austria a prototype turns its rounds, behind the wheel, the former Belgian formula 1 pilot Paul Frére.
the RUF sportscar is the frist one that Alois Ruf is completely developing on his own, based on the 911TT. i don`t have details on the price and how many cars will be made...

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/porsche_RUF_supercar.JPG

edit: i`ve made some phonecalls and one guy told me that there`ll be only 100 pieces available...

09-17-2003, 09:56 AM

Wow, interesting to see finally a 100% RUF car :) I hope it will be a hit :D

1zippo1

09-17-2003, 11:21 AM

Wow, interesting to see finally a 100% RUF car :) I hope it will be a hit :D

Yeah, cool that there will be a 100% RUF car, but they really should hire some good designers because I think this looks stupid. The gront and rear headlamps are too big. The lines of the car are unimaganative and it has little original features...

draak666

09-17-2003, 11:39 AM

There's still a lot of Porsche cues to be found, I think. The front lamps remind me of an old Ferrari. I don't really like the back, especially the lights. However, when I'll see it moving I'll probably like it. :D

Imre

09-17-2003, 12:00 PM

With minor mods it should look fine.The rear lights remaind me Isdera`s.

AlienDB7

09-17-2003, 01:04 PM

The head and tail lights make it look a bit 60s (the ferrari P3??), they really should hire better designers.

st-anger

09-18-2003, 02:21 PM

- CGT test drive -

german car mag AMS is one of the first mags that`s been able to test drive the CGT.
well to sum it all up nothing really special, it`s a summary of what we already know, concerning to the history, design, techs like engine, chassis and handling. sadly, again nothing about a comparison with its competitors, there are just some new infos but neverthenless i`ll try to point out the main things of the article in AMS and some other interesting tech details from the technical journal " Auto Technology"

so it`s not only the engine power that distinguishes a supercar, it`s all about how to reduce the weight on the one hand, but to have a powerful engine on the other hand.
and this`s been the main goal for the engineers in Weissach and they did their job better than any other manufactorer.
no other production Porsche has been stronger, faster, better...
aerodynamics:
the two roof halvings, that need the whole trunk in the front of the car ( 76 ltr. ), are generating the downforce that is needed, that the car is still stable at speeds of 185mph +. although this results in a not very impressive Cd value of 0.39, o the other hand the car is extremely stable even at top speed because it generates +400kg downforce at 205mph.on the one hand the main amount of the downforce is assured by the harmoniously integrated rear wing that automatically extends at a speed of 75 mph, on the other hand by the rear diffuser-shaped under body of the car.

engine and drivetrain:
the CGT`s engine is 214kg light, mounted midship on a , 40-valve V-10 with VarioCam variable valve control, titanium connecting rods and an aluminum twin-flow intake manifold and dry sump lubrication is fitted behind the cockpit of the Carrera GT is based on a 5.5- litre V10 normally aspirated engine which, as an all-out racing machine, might well have been featured in the Le Mans 24-Hour race. now, the engine capacity has been increased to 5.7 litres in the road car by enlarging the cylinder bore to 98 millimetres or 3.86". through its performance alone, the Carrera GT clearly stands out as a super sports car for the road. Maximum output is 450 kW or 612 bhp at 8000 rpm, while maximum torque is 590 Nm or 435 lb-ft at 5750 rpm. Top speed, in turn, is 330 km/h or 205 mph at 8400 ( !!! ) rpm. and as for acceleration, the Carrera GT really enters a new dimension, rocketing from 0-100 km/h in just 3.9 seconds and reaching 200 km/h in a mere 9.9 seconds. the optimised 68° V-angle of the cylinders, together with the crankshaft lowered to the lowest possible level, gives the engine a very low centre of gravity. this tight V-angle and the steep ducts within the engine block are necessary in order to provide enough space for the car's variousaerodynamic features, such as the air flow ducts and the diffuser. Porsche's engineers have chosen the 10-cylinder concept with 500 cc per cylinder since this configuration offers optimum conditions for the cylinder charge cycle.

the brakes of the CGT are also ahead of the game incorporating the use of ceramics: Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB). perforated and internally vented like metal brake discs, they weigh 50% less, further reducing unsprung masses. together with an innovative brake lining, PCCBs spontaneously generate extremely high and constant deceleration friction coefficients. with the first-ever application of an 8-piston brake calliper in front and 4-piston calliper at the rear in Porsche Monobloc design, brake performance advances well into motorsport dimensions. the ultra-light magnesium forged wheels improve handling, thanks to different sizes on front and rear axles. Wheel dimensions (19 inches up front, 20 inches in the rear), permit brake disc diameters of 380 mm - 50 mm more than on the 911 TT.

Porsche's engineers have benefited from their experience with PCCB Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes, developing this material to an even higher standard for use in a two-plate dry clutch, the PCCC Porsche Ceramic Composite Clutch. the particular fortes of ceramics are enormous strength, low weight and, in particular, an exceptional service life. the two ceramic clutch plates made of carbon fibre and silicon carbide measure only 169 millimetres or 6.65" in diameter, as compared to a clutch diameter of up to 380 millimetres or 15.00" on regular production cars.

chassis:
the CGT features a race chassis with two double wishbone axles. it is designed for agile performance, superior handling and high safety even in extreme situations. push rods are used on the rear axle for the first time on a road car. these allow the positioning of struts on the transmission and permit fine-tuning of the chassis as well as aerodynamically advantageous air ducting in the engine, transmission and rear axle area. additionally, they reduce overall weight and the unsprung masses for still better performance. with adjustable spring mounts on all wheels, wheel load can be perfectly balanced.

the engine and transmission rest on three mounts within the support frame made of carbon-fibre-reinforced plastic (CFRP) bolted onto the chassis. this support frame is part of the car's overall composite structure, teaming up with the chassis to form the backbone of the Carrera GT. the purpose of this unique construction is to keep the car sturdy and stiff in every respect, without adding to its weight. The threepoint mounting concept reduces the trans-mission of noise and vibration and serves at the same time to protect the car's occupants in the event of a collision. the carbon fibre structure is enhanced with H400 stainless steel deformation elements at the front and at the back. the bumper system is made up of an extra--strong aluminium
crossbar and impact tubes. Porsche's development engineers have attached particular significance to the suitable protection of the 92-litre fuel tank, finding the safest place for the tank, which is made of deep-drawn aluminium, within the monocoque between the passenger cell and the engine compartment. for the first time in a production car, the seat shell is made of
composite carbon fibre – or, to be specific, a non-splintering aramide fibre able to expand more flexibly than carbon fibre as such. the use of this material is a further example of the intelligent choice of various materials for different components, demonstrated at first sight by the reduction in weight: while a regular Porsche seat weighs more than 20 kilos or 44.1 lb and the bucket seats in the GT3 weigh 13.1 kilos or 28.9 lb each, the seats in the CGT each weigh in at a mere 10.7 kg or 23.6 lb. (rs).

handling and driving:
starting the CGT`s engine sound like an F1 race engine, beginning with some high revs, but the falling back to idling speed. but also when driving the CGT, the engine has a very agressive, high frequency sound just like a formula 1 race car. applying the clutch is a bit tricky due to the standing pedals, walter röhrl advises to keep the heel on the ground and apply the pedal like a whip. also the PCCC is a bit plucky, but after a few launches it`s no problem any more. even with TC and PSM off the CGT accelerates like a bullet because of its excellent diff lock. on wet road, it`s highly recommended not to switch the stabillity electronics off.
with the new Michelin Pilot Sport 2, that has two different rubber components on the inner and outer side, the CGT should be able to reach 1.45gs :shock:

i`ll tell you something more about handling after my test drive on the 21st of oct...

some pics of the article in AMS:
http://members.aon.at/st-anger/AMS3_1.JPG

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/AMS3_2.JPG

draak666

09-18-2003, 03:27 PM

Dude, did you write all that? The least I can do now is read it all. :D

I thought Porsche got rid of it's standing pedals? Guess I was wrong... :?

Johns

09-18-2003, 03:57 PM

those pics in the mag are sweet! too bad the article is not in english :)

st-anger

09-21-2003, 09:35 AM

IMO some of the best pice i´ve ever seen, just got ´em from a friend who has access the german Porsche media site.
the one at LeMans HAS TO BE the new desktop background pic....
hope you enjoy them :wink:

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGT_Leipzig.JPG

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGT_Lemans.JPG

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGT_track.JPG

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGT_city.JPG

alondahan

09-21-2003, 03:42 PM

great pics :)

that porsche building looks like an alien space ship :P
http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGT_Leipzig.JPG

st-anger

09-22-2003, 11:31 AM

29 days to go guys, just listen to this :!: :!: :!:

http://www.jabbasworld.net/cgt3.zip
http://www.jabbasworld.net/cgt2.zip
http://www.jabbasworld.net/cgt1.zip

Jabba

09-22-2003, 11:33 AM

Honestly that has to be one of the greatest sounds I have ever heard !!! 8)

Johns

09-22-2003, 12:22 PM

excellent pics, and the sound was INSANE!! :shock:

st-anger

09-22-2003, 02:23 PM

only one word:

:!: :!: U N B E L I E V A B L E :!: :!:

http://fara.cs.uni-potsdam.de/~frohloff/carpassion/Carrera_GT.AVI

IMO this has to be the best video of the year so far!!!
i ´ve seen it now min. 10 times and now i´m off to watch it again, and again, and......

1zippo1

09-22-2003, 03:01 PM

Indeed, very nice video!!!! Thx for posting.

You're really trying to make us jealous because you're gonna drive this beast, aren't you :wink: Doesn't matter, I think it's great that someone on JW can share the experience with us.

enjoy it!!!

st-anger

09-23-2003, 03:11 PM

quite impressive video, featuring a Porsche GT3RS, behind the wheel, one of the world`s best Porsche drivers, Frank Stippler.
two laps round the nordschleife and the GP track during a VLN race, some nice chasing while round one and that sound!!!
lap times were 8:45.078 and 8:44.070, not that bad.... :D

http://www.frank-stippler.de/de/motorsport/img/BFG1_4_300x198.jpg
http://www.frank-stippler.de/de/motorsport/img/BFG_springend.jpg

http://foto.nurburgring.de/web/video/Frank_Stippler.wmv 70mb file

enjoy... :wink:

st-anger

09-23-2003, 04:01 PM

for those of you who are interested, i`ve uploaded the first UK CGT test of the oct. issue of "Autocar"

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289043717

AlienDB7

09-23-2003, 06:20 PM

Very nice video indeed! Hopefully it'll be featured on top gear AND 5th gear next season. Can't wait to see tiff pushing the CGT to the limit.

Thanks st-anger

Johns

09-23-2003, 07:41 PM

that was a sweet vid around the track! thanks :D

scubywrxr

09-24-2003, 03:48 PM

The carrera gt is the dogs danglies! super cool vid , thanks you lucky devil :wink:

cho_888

09-25-2003, 06:11 AM

does any one speak german? can they translate that video for us english folk.

st-anger

09-25-2003, 03:29 PM

to celebrate 1000+ views :lol: :

some pics from the factory edited "PORSCHE CARRERA GT" brochure, which is kinda rare :wink:

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGTbroch_1.jpg

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGTbroch_2.jpg

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGTbroch_3.jpg

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGTbroch_4.jpg

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGTbroch_5.jpg

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGTbroch_6.jpg

and cho, i´ll see what i can do about that translation...

st-anger

09-25-2003, 04:17 PM

the result:

....10 cyl, 612 hp, 0-124mph in 9.9 sec, top speed 205+!!! mph
unbelieveable to get that power on the road, walther röhrl`s able to manage that, and he assisted Porsche with his knowlege as a race driver, that everyone can handle the CGT without getting into real troubles. rohrl:" you`ll have to do some practicing with the clutch pedal, but then the CGT drives just like a 50hp VW Golf, but only for the time, the connection between right foot and brain is ok."
the price 452000€, only 1500 CGT`ll be available, and roumours say all are already sold. ( ...i know +/-300 are left ) but who`s able to buy a CGT ( ...the young guy with the blue shirt and suit sitting in the CGT at IAA ) he says the price is ok:" of course the car isn`t low-priced, but the CGT is just unbelieveable and unique, a car like this won`t come out the next 10 to 20 years in automotive engineering"
the guests at the IAA can only stare at the CGT and admire it: (first girl)" for me this car is a kind of art", second girl:" superb, must be like a dream to have one", guy in the suit: " Porsche`s building the world`s best cars!" the chance of seeing one for real is quite low, so walther röhrl again show us the capabillities og the GT:" pure race cars have the characteristic that they have a high speed, but difficult to handle, and Porsche won`t offer that to the "normal" customers, so our main goal was to keep the characteristics of a race car but on the other hand to make the car driveable for anyone who`s using his brain while driving. (... some tech features we already know...)
the last statement: when you really want to push the CGT to its limit, you need to be a pro driver because of the race car characteristics, and you should always think of what happens when you go "pedal to the metal"...

st-anger

09-29-2003, 09:16 AM

...again, my boys at weissach have done a great job and Porsche Motorsports is now offering the GT3RS-R for private teams:
it`s 1100kg light and`ll have ~445hp
the price`ll be around 300k€

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/Porsche_GT3RS-R_1.jpg

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/Porsche_GT3RS-R_2.jpg

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/Porsche_GT3RS-R_3.jpg

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/Porsche_GT3RS-R_4.jpg

1zippo1

09-29-2003, 11:07 AM

Wow, impressive car. I bet that's a real fast car on the track!!

A friend of mine knows some people in the GT world. And he's going to have a drive on the track of Zolder (in the passenger seat off course) in a Porsche 911 996 race version (stripped down...), forgot the exact name of the car, with 600hp. Damn, I envy that guy!!

By the way st-ranger. I like porsches but there has been some argument conserning there policy on electronical safety systems. I've recently read an article where they compared the 911 Carrera with a Corvette and the last one was the most fun on the track. The PSM annihilates any form of provoking oversteer with braking when entering a turn. Shouldn't it have been beter to install a locking diff instead of a PSM that works on the brakes... What's your oppinion about this? I know PSM is safer but it's annoying that it autimatically re-activates when you touch the brakes.

666fast

09-29-2003, 04:00 PM

st-anger

09-29-2003, 04:10 PM

By the way st-ranger. I like porsches but there has been some argument conserning there policy on electronical safety systems. I've recently read an article where they compared the 911 Carrera with a Corvette and the last one was the most fun on the track. The PSM annihilates any form of provoking oversteer with braking when entering a turn. Shouldn't it have been beter to install a locking diff instead of a PSM that works on the brakes... What's your oppinion about this? I know PSM is safer but it's annoying that it autimatically re-activates when you touch the brakes.

well, it`s their opinion when they say they had more fun in the vette, i won`t…
and that the PSM annihilates any form of oversteer when braking into a turn is kinda new to me...

as far as diff-lock is concerned all Porsches that really need a diff-lock ( e.g. GT2, GT3..) has an asymmetric differential lock that delivers 40% lock under power to improve traction, and 60% lock on overrun to stabilise the car. for those cars PSM isn`t even available.
also the "40 years" anniversary edition is equipped with an extra mechanical rear diff-lock and PSM to improve handling...
but IMO PSM is ( one of ) the best systems, even to drive fast around a track, not only for safety matters.
and when you want a track car, simply don`t order PSM, it`s only standard in the C4, C4S, TT and all 955 modells, but the following report should show you, that i´ve experienced that PSM is quite good for track use.
as i mentioned before i´ve driven a C2 as a company car during my time at weissach, and due to my work in the driveline departement i also had the chance to ride some modells on the test track at weissach, so, luckily, i´ve quite some experience with racing Porsches.

i think everyone is quite familliar with the basic principle of the PSM, so i needn`t explain all the tech. details.
so it doesn`t really depend on what you´ll do with your Porsche, just for showing off or to race around a race track, IMO when PSM is available and you can afford it, take it. don`t get me wrong, if you are looking for a street-legal race car, like a GT2 there`s even no PSM available, it needn`t need it, but this car has other handling characteristics than a C2 or something like that.
with PSM a level of safety can be provided, that´s impossible to achieve by driver skill alone, even for a professional.

tell me if you want to know how PSM is functioning in detail, i won´t explain it at that point...

as zippo mentioned you can turn the PSM off. when you "turn it off," you are taking only the outputs offline. the PSM system is still collecting data from the ABS system, the yaw sensor, the lateral acceleration sensors and the steering wheel position sensor. if you have
PSM off, and the levels of slip are exceeded, and you do not touch the brakes, the car will continue to slide. if you have not exceeded the
levels of slip allowed, and apply the brakes (no matter how hard), PSM will not active its outputs. however, if you have exceeded the levels,
AND apply the brakes (no matter how hard), PSM will activate until the car has regained control or you get off the brakes, at which point PSM stops outputting. PSM assumes that since you hit the brakes that you are not comfortable with the level of sliding and that you want it to help. so concearning PSM and racing, PSM can be a good asset, because it allows you to explore the limits of traction on the first few laps at a new track more confidently. when PSM activates you can feel it, much like you can feel ABS. it will show you where you are losing traction while keeping you on the track if the loss was unintentional. when it engages, it may slow you down where you might not want it to later, i.e., where you really do want more oversteer, but on those first few practice laps, who cares? IMO that has been the "problem" of the test driver zippo is refering. you can actually throttle steer the car quite well with PSM on as long as you are
smooth, the yaw is not excessive, and the corner is fast enough to allow smooth inputs.
so far, so good. since you can turn PSM off, why wouldn’t you want to buy it, even for a car you intend to race? it seems like the best of both worlds. however, remember above where I said that when PSM is off, it is still collecting data and if you hit the brakes when the levels of slip are exceeded, it will intervene. that could be a negative in one racing technique, trail braking, where you are obviously on the brakes and turning. there are two reasons to trail brake, one in which PSM is neutral or even a positive, and one in which it can interfere with the driver’s intention. the first is when you are trail braking to lengthen the straight or to maintain a higher speed through the first part of a turn. in this case, you want the car to stay on its directed path. if things are going as intended, PSM is very unlikely to engage even though you are on the brakes. if it does, it is probably because you lost rear traction in a pretty big way. by engaging it didn’t cost you time since your intention was to slow down anyway and it may have saved you from spinning. the second use of trail braking serves a different purpose. if you are trail braking to induce some oversteer intentionally to tighten the corner, PSM could interfere in the same way as when it is on and you lift to oversteer.
Porsche wanted the car to perform like a Porsche not a family saloon, so the PSM has been designed for minimal intrusion, its limits are really high and you can reach the same lateral g-force number with the system in or out on a steady state cornering circle. thus, if you are a good driver, you can keep the power on in a drift and even adjust the car’s attitude on power in a corner without interference. but if you lift off suddenly or brake, and the car is in danger of destabilizing, the system will reach out and save you.
but the best argument is yet to come, the difference is small around the Nurburgring for a skilled test driver. only within one second a lap in fact. this is the way the car is made. if you are smooth, there is no interference from the system. but if you are ragged, the system will be cutting in all the time to stabilize the car, so an aggressive driver will be slower with the system on.

i hope this answers some of your questions zippo... :wink:

as always, if there are any questions left, don`t hesitate to ask :!:

st-anger

09-29-2003, 04:14 PM

The brochure looks quite nice, you know what would be awesome st. anger? If you sent me the brochure! :lol:

Thanks for all the pics and info, I really appreciate knowing all of this before my friends!

i think there are some around on e-bay, the only problem, the price: 200$ :shock:
so if money is not the problem for one of you guys, buy one it`s worth some money :wink:

1zippo1

09-29-2003, 04:38 PM

:o I'm impressed st-ranger. Is there still any man who is stupid enough to question your authority on porsches... that man must be crazy!

I understand you point st-ranger but the test driver had a car with PSM on it and I suppose he dislikes any computer system interfering in his driving. I don't question the quality of the PSM system and the fact is that it allows most people to go faster on a track because they can come close to the limits and still controll the car. In some situations however I can also understand that there are people who just want a system that you can shut of completely to do anything they want. However I suppose Porsche rather keeps their customers alive :wink:

Thx for your proffessional explanation!! I wish I know 1/10 of cars technology that you know!!! Good to have you here.

st-anger

09-30-2003, 12:28 PM

- the fourth Porsche -

so that´s no breaking news, it`s been under discussion some weeks now, but for those who haven`t heared it, Porsche is planning to add a fourth model line, to take the company towards 100,000 units/year.
there had already been some signs back in 2002 when mr. Wiedeking said in an interview after the Cayenne was introduced: "it's very simple: after three comes four and we have good ideas.... but if the car we have in mind comes to the market, we will have fewer friends than we have today." some sources have said that Porsche has been studying a four-passenger coupe, code-named E2A, and a four-door sedan, code-named E2B, which should compete with MB E55,BMW M5, or Audi RS6.
there are some rumours, that it`ll launch in 2006 but these are only speculations. there are some speculations an what platform the 4th Porsche´ll be based on, building a new one´ll be way too expensive to develop, and there´d be no place where it would be built. by outsourcing, it`s likely that porsche is assigning Magna ( BMW X3 ) to build the car, but in the other hand it can also be based on a lightened version of the Cayenne platform, where the chassis weight can be reduced significantly since it will not require the underside durability built into the Cayenne.
this would save money, because the Cayenne uses, thx to a joint venture with VW, VW stamps, welds and they´re painting the body.
about the engine, the 911`s flat six would be unlikely to fit in a front engined bay. more likely, if the E2A & E2B modells are priced nearer the 911 than a Boxster and are 5 series sized, is the V8 of the Cayenne with the power kit ( ~ 500+hp )
another engine might be the V6 from the Cayenne V6.
Porsche management have stated that they will give an update on their plans for a 4th model in early 2004...

scubywrxr

09-30-2003, 04:06 PM

I read that W. rohrl`s unofficial time in the CGT around the `ring was about 7min25s .. a radical turbo did it in 7 mins 13s!

thatts 2 freaking fast cars!

If its a dedicated lap in a specially prepared CGT - uh 10 secs faster?? :twisted:

st-anger

09-30-2003, 04:32 PM

I read that W. rohrl`s unofficial time in the CGT around the `ring was about 7min25s ...

where did you get that info from???

scubywrxr

10-01-2003, 11:42 AM

A local South African magazine called DRIVE published an article about fastest laps around the nordschleife. road car record was last held by a gemballa 600 that was subsequently beaten by a british team running a radical turbo (officially factory backed) - the time was actually 7 min 19 secs not 13 secs as stated above- I made a mistake :oops:

Interesting facts are that the Radical turbo equipped with AP racing brakes achieved 1.65g maximum deceleration and 1.6g maximum cornering force! this was on standard road tyres and not slicks!
The gemballa was slightly faster on the straights but could not come close around the corners or braking areas..

The magazine says the quickest ever lap was in 1985 done in a porsche 956/962 in about 6 minutes and a few seconds over!

They say that W R did the unofficial laps in about 7 min 25 s whilst developing the CGT at the `ring and was not an ultimate lap! so we can expect more...

st-anger

10-01-2003, 12:21 PM

i think that`s what you mean:
Stefan Bellof in a ROTHMANS Porsche 956C clocked a 6:11min in 1983 but on the 20,832 km track, not the 25km!!!
i´ve seen a vid of Derek Bell clocking a 6:41 in the same car, and when you know the Nordschleife, and see this vid, it`s simply unbelievable...

what i ´ve heared, the best time W R clocked during developing the CGT on the Nordschleife had been a 7:37, as i posted in the "Porsche news".
this is the time W R confirmed when he`s asked.

but the figures of the Radical are really quite nice, 1.6 gs are quite a lot with std. tyres :shock:
but in relation to the weight...hmmm....can we say it´s a true "car" and compare it with a CSL, GT3 or GTR 600???

SDK2003

10-02-2003, 02:04 PM

---> View the EVO Porsche GT article here (http://www.sdk2003.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Porsche_gt/page1.htm)

SDK2003

10-02-2003, 02:06 PM

I read that W. rohrl`s unofficial time in the CGT around the `ring was about 7min25s ...

where did you get that info from???

Read this - http://www.radicalmotorsport.com/News_Folder/nordschliefe/index.htm

Another good read - http://www.radicalmotorsport.com/News_Folder/roadsr3/

Also

A top speed of over 160mph was recorded on the Döttinger Höhe straight, and even with the Dunlop Formula R road tyres, a cornering force of 2.1g was not uncommon.

st-anger

10-02-2003, 02:47 PM

---> View the EVO Porsche GT article here (http://www.sdk2003.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Porsche_gt/page1.htm)

thx for the nice article SDK, i really enjoy it !!!

st-anger

10-04-2003, 09:36 AM

http://www.retromotorcompany.co.uk/selecta/ps.htm

10-04-2003, 10:04 AM

Very nice site, thanks dude!!

Chingachgook

10-04-2003, 11:21 AM

Thanks for the links!
Evo article is so good....

st-anger

10-05-2003, 11:27 AM

GT3RS around test track in Weissach, not that spectacular like the one with the CGT, but who cares....

http://content3.eu.porsche.com/prod/911/gt3rs.nsf/deugerman/experienceontrack

SFDMALEX

10-05-2003, 01:27 PM

GT3RS around test track in Weissach, not that spectacular like the one with the CGT, but who cares....

http://content3.eu.porsche.com/prod/911/gt3rs.nsf/deugerman/experienceontrack

WOW. Thanks St.Anger. That was lovely 3 different views....

From the looks of it the steering looked super light, plus the driver turned the wheel quite alot for the car to turn(not anything negative, I just though its going to be more race car(ish).

Great Vid.

st-anger

10-06-2003, 10:18 AM

st-anger

10-08-2003, 02:49 PM

- “Porsche 550 Spyder” 50 years anniversary -

one of my favourite Porsches, the legendary Porsche 550 Spyder becomes 50 years old, so happy birthday old lady!!!
in oct. 1953 the first particularly racing car from Stuttgart was presented at Paris car salon to the public for the first time.
undoubtedly, Porsche has the most successful history in motor racing among all car makers. since the early 60s, we saw countless of racing cars came out of weissach and dominated endurance racing and GT racing. in racing circuits, from LeMans to Nurburgring, from Sebring to Daytona, we saw at least half of the field was filled with Porsche's machines, most of which were private enters. to the competitors, the word "Porsche" meant nightmare while the numbers 911, 917, 935, 956 and 962 were ... well, just like counting the number of victories. All these success started with the 550 Spyder.
before this, Ferdinand Porsche created several awesome racing cars, including Mercedes SSK and Auto Union's V16 mid-engined Grand Prix car. however, as Ferdinand was half-retired since WWII, while Ferry was concentrating on creating the company's first production car, the first racing car was not developed until the summer of 1952. although Ferry was more a “road car man”than a “acing man” unlike Enzo Ferrari, he still had the ambition to dominate the motorsport world like his father.
however, Porsche was still a small company then. although some money was earned by engineering consultant service to subsidise the programme, they still had to use the existing suspension parts and wheels from the 356, incorporated in a ladder chassis which was also modified from the 356. engine, again from 356, was tuned to 78 hp from 1500 cc. nevertheless, 550 Spyder was still unmistakably a racing car because of its aluminium body and the mid-engined layout, a first for Porsche.
Porsche engineer Wilhelm Hild constructed the first 550 in 1953. he designed the 550 just like the “Glöckler Porsche”, which also had a flat frame welded of pipes, the 550´s successor the 550A presented in 1956 received a new space frame chassis which was not only lighter, but added 3 times torsional rigidity over the ladder chassis. engine was boosted to 135 hp and the 550A handled a lot better than its predecessors.
Porsche built eight racing prototypes before selling the car to the public in 1954. the first generation “public” 550, called 1500RS, featured a new engine - a 1500 c.c. boxer four with 4 camshafts and twin-spark plugs per cylinder. this was very advanced by contemporary standards. with 125 hp and a still-outstanding 1320 pounds weight, no wonder it continued to dominate class racing. please note that the “public” 550 was still primarily designed for racing although it was finished in road-legal trim. driving it too hard in public highway may lead to tragedy, one of the examples was James Dean - in 1955 he crashed his 550 Spyder on a californian highway and died.
as the 550 Spyder remained unbeatable in the 1500cc class for nearly a full decade, Porsche became a famous name in motor racing. from 1960 it terminated all development of the 550 and started to take a new challenge in F1 ...
to sum it all up, a little insider info, many ppl say that the 550 is named after its weight, 550kg, but the reason why it`s called 550 is simple: it had been Porsches 550th construction.

http://www.rapidcars.com/550spydersilvr.jpg

1zippo1

10-08-2003, 04:28 PM

Still like the looks of that car. Thx for the infor, but sorry, no time to read it all now.

st-anger

10-10-2003, 01:20 PM

- CGT vs. Enzo update -

Walter Röhrl test drove a Ferrari Enzo and when a reporter of a german car mag asked him what he thinks about the Enzo in comparison to "his" Porsche CGT he said: "the Enzo really has a great engine, the handling is good, and it`s easy to drive, but the steering is too light and you have no knowledge of the position of the front wheels, especially in the wet, when the traction control cuts in too soon."
he claimed that on the Papenberg racing circuit the CGT`d be 1.3 sec. quicker under dry conditions, but in the wet a staggering 11 sec.
faster. Röhrl added: "when pushing really hard, the Enzo doesn`t handle as precise and smooth as the CGT, more expertise is required from the driver"
no infos if Ferrari invited Röhrl to test drive the Enzo which is IMO bloody unlikely, but it would be interesting to know that, because Ferrari is not that happy with the idea of comparing their supercar with the one of Porsche, so i think ther`ll never be a head to head comparsion Ferrari vs. Porsche. luckily there are car mags like "Sport Auto" which is my first adress for that comparison to take place, time will tell.....

btw....hardly any recognition for the "550", the most important Porsche of all time :?

1zippo1

10-10-2003, 01:34 PM

To be honest, I wasn't expecting the CGT to be this fast... If what you've heard turns out to be true of course. That's something we can only know for sure if car mags actually test it and professional race drivers try and set the best time on a track.

The same thing Rohl said, was mentioned in the EVO article (Enzo vs Zonda vs Koenigsegg). The suspension is very stiff and the steering isn't very communicative. I still wonder, if driven in the right hands... wich one would be the fastest.

Fastest isn't everything of course. I like the looks of the CGT way more then the Enzo.

nice info st-ranger!

st-anger

10-10-2003, 01:37 PM

I like the looks of the CGT way more then the Enzo.

nice info st-ranger!

yep me too....
and it`s st-anger, with an A :lol:

1zippo1

10-10-2003, 01:44 PM

ah sorry, that's like the metallica song ...

st-anger

10-10-2003, 01:47 PM

exactely... :D

st-anger

10-10-2003, 02:24 PM

CGT vids... :D
quality is kinda bad, but IMO worth the d-load
...shifting @ 8250rpm... :shock:

http://www.autovisie.nl/

scubywrxr

10-10-2003, 03:40 PM

You really are the Porsche informer ;) Are you a secret agent man or something.. where do u come up with all this fantastic news.. personal emails from W R I bet :wink: Thanks St -anger

st-anger

10-10-2003, 04:51 PM

You really are the Porsche informer ;) Are you a secret agent man or something.. where do u come up with all this fantastic news.. personal emails from W R I bet :wink: Thanks St -anger

again, my pleasure m8
it`s all about passion, when you`re into Porsche for such a long time as i am, it`s quite easy to get some infos, there`d be so much more to tell, especially from the time during my work at weissach, but unfortunately i´m not allowed to talk about certain things.

so as i don`t have the time to search the internet for everything related on Porsche all the time, i`ve some friends all over the world :lol: who are sharing this passion with me, and we`ve our own little "news mail" thing running...

Johns

10-10-2003, 05:52 PM

with that 550 u could loose ur head :lol: :lol:

Chingachgook

10-11-2003, 03:31 AM

thanks for the info st-anger!
I'm not so sure that the CGT is faster than the Enzo, because Rohrl is speaking!he's the man behind the dynamic of the CGT, it would be strange if he said that the CGT is slower!
Same thing with the GT3 and Challenge Stradale. He sais Ferrari is difficult to drive on the limit because of the sudden snap to oversteer...but what about the GT3 with the engine BEHIND rear wheels??

When a driver, not involved in factory activity will test both cars, then we'll all know the real potential of the Enzo and Carrera GT

st-anger

10-11-2003, 11:12 AM

hi Chingachgook

don`t get me wrong, i don`t know it either who`ll be faster I can only guess as everyone…
but as I said before i`ve acsess to some information that you won`t find in mags or on tv, and from what i`ve heared from that sources, the CGT IS faster than the Enzo, regardeless what WR says or not, but Porsche has always been quite honest with their performance claims either. for the time being, I'll trust WR…
but you´ll have to define “what is fast”, better “where”….
i´ve posted my opinion on that topic here some time ago, I think the “where” is the point…

When a driver, not involved in factory activity will test both cars, then we'll all know the real potential of the Enzo and Carrera GT

...that´ll be “Horst von Sauma” from “Sport Auto”…

but again, only time will tell...

Chingachgook

10-11-2003, 11:33 AM

Well, when Horst von Saurma will test both cars I'll be more sure that the CGT is faster. Now I doubt it because I love Ferrari...my heart is "Rosso Scuderia"....
I'm sure the CGT is a great car with a great sound, and will be very involving to drive (I don't like the paddle shift), and now that I know that you have access to infos that can't be found in mags...I have to change my mind.
And finally we have Ferrari and Porsche supercar

st-anger

10-13-2003, 10:07 AM

I'm not so sure that the CGT is faster than the Enzo, because Rohrl is speaking!he's the man behind the dynamic of the CGT, it would be strange if he said that the CGT is slower!

When a driver, not involved in factory activity will test both cars, then we'll all know the real potential of the Enzo and Carrera GT

i´ve done some investigations on that, how WR could know that the CGT is better or the Enzo, and here`s what i know now:

Porsche is going to lend a CGT to Ferrari for approx. a week in oct, so mr. benuzzi can find out who`s done the better job.
Ferrari already borrowed an enzo to Porsche, so that`s how WR can say "his" car is better, but i think we all know what benuzzi`s going to say about the CGT....
so not some news at all concerning CGT vs. Enzo but just to inform you...

10-13-2003, 10:10 AM

Anyway interesing to see Ferrari and Porsche swapping cars ;)

st-anger

10-13-2003, 10:23 AM

1zippo1

10-13-2003, 11:25 AM

10-13-2003, 11:40 AM

st-anger

10-13-2003, 02:34 PM

Anyway interesing to see Ferrari and Porsche swapping cars ;)

...not a big deal in automobile industry, even when it`s Ferrari and Porsche.
e.g. Porsche and MB made a secret comparison to find out which car is superiour, the CGT or the SLR, this meeting has been one of the main reasons why the SLR has been considerably delayed, and got some more power...
i think it`s clear which car have been ( IS !? ) better...

Hasn't the Porsche increased the power of their CGT. I believe it was 558hp at first.

By the way st-anger, I'm searching for a metallica song, one of their last songs. They've used it as a soundtrack in episode 302 of smallville and I think it's one of their last singles.

on the one hand you`re right zippo, but the power increasement of the CGT has nothing to do with a comparison with other supercars like Enzo or SLR.
on the other hand I can tell you something, probably only some ppl know who´re not into Porsche officially:
the project CGT was born an 14th june 1998, Porsche started developing it in fall 2000,
so when i`d been in weissach too :D ( Dec.1997 to Jul. 2001 ) and i even got some insights into the LeMans racing car project which should be able to win the 24h race for the 17th time…
as I said some times before I can`t tell you all the details, I think you understand that…

after a double victory for the GT1 at 1998 24h race in LeMans, Porsche cancelled the 1998 GT-racing season because breathing asthmatically through restrictors, its turbocharged engines were denied the power that could have made them competitive.
especially lacking were the mid-range torque and response needed to accelerate away from the slow corners that proliferated on the latest race-track designs back then.
so Herbert Ampferer (Porsches motorsports chief ) drew a line under the turbo-blown era and recommended that Porsche face its racing future with naturally aspirated engines.
work on the new LMP ( Le Mans Prototype) car, named LMP 2000, started immediately.
in nov. 1998 Horst Marchart, chief of Weissach R&D facility, announced at its annual motorsports gathering that it would not compete in 1999 but would have a new racer ready for the 2000 season, he said that Porsche decided to stop for one year to develop a complete new car.
it was mr. Ampferer`s task to develop an engine first, and due to his former work for the Footwork Arrows F1 team where he designed the Type 3512 V-12´s sucsessor, a 3.5ltr V10, he scaled up the concept of this engine to 5.5ltr., but kept the 68-degree vee angle, a novum in a Porsche engine. twin overhead cams for each cylinder bank were gear-driven and opened four valves per cylinder. the main castings were aluminum, using a nikasil coating directly on the cylinder bores. the cylinders were cast integrally with the block to keep the engine as short as possible ~60cm long and also stiff enough to be used as the rear portion of the frame. Porsches new V10 grouped its pumps and accessories in a case that extended across the front of the crankcase below the crankshaft nose, whence its train of gears was turned. a single water pump on the right side served both cylinder banks. the left-hand bank was offset forward of its mate to accommodate the side-by-side titanium connecting rods. butterfly throttles controlled the motronic generated mixture to an engine capable of revving to 10.000 rpm and producing 680 horsepower. drive train and suspension were carried over with improvements from the ´98 GT1. Porsche then designed a new carbon-fiber frame tub and it was produced by “Lola Composites”. after some delays the prototype of the LMP 2000 was ready for tests at Weissach by Nov. 1999. first test driver`s were Allan McNish and Bob Wollek, both calling the it an excellent car. BUT on nov. 21st Porsche announced that the project would be halted due to a business decision to concentrate all engineering resources on the development of the Cayenne. in 1999 the accountants have finally triumphed over the engineers and everybody at weissach was disappointed to hell, the car that might well have been Porsche's 17th Le Mans winner was dead. …“profit comes before pride“
but after some provocations e.g. from AM with its Vanquish and MB´s SLR, BMW`s Z8, VW`s takeover of Lambo, the revival of Bugatti, Bentley´s Hunadieres concept car and, most outrageous of all, the Volkswagen W12 open two-seater with its 500hp W-12 engine CEO Wiedeking HAD to act. so he announced: ”In recent times, the giants in the business have discovered the sports car, serving, you might say, some special cream on top of their big cakes. more and more companies are now rounding off their model range with high performance vehicles claimed to be “sporting” and “dynamic” Porsche won`t play second fiddle to these upstarts!”
so it had been up to Harm Lagaay, chief designer, to design the Porsche supercar. there were no design restrictions, and no need to use any carryover parts from existing projects, the only brief was to make a strong statement in the field of top end sports cars, which Porsche had not made since the 959. borrowing from other projects wasn't prohibited, so use could be made of the 5.5ltr V10 that Herbert Ampferer's racers were developing for the LMP 2000. it kept its small diameter racing clutch, which made driving the concept CGT somewhat tricky, and was detuned to 558hp at 7500rpm and 442 lb-ft of torque at 4500rpm. development of the Carrera GT for production was assigned to Weissach`s motorsports group, backed up by other resources at the engineering center. Herbert Ampferer was in charge of the project, which benefited greatly in its later stages from the involvement of veterans Norbert Singer and Roland Kussmaul. the V10 was converted from its noisy gear train camshaft drive to quieter chains providing a VarioCam system for the inlet valves. Instead of the sequential shift racing transmission a gate type manual shift for the transverse six-speed gearbox was used because the Americans prefer it. Only 17cm in diameter, a twin disc ceramic clutch coped with 435 lb-ft of torque at 5750 rpm from the 5733cc (98 x 76 mm) V10, which produced 612hp at 8000 rpm in production form. replacing the provisional aluminum structure of the prototypes was a monocoque of carbon fiber reinforced resin, manufacturer is ATR in italy, the same company delivers Ferrari for its Enzo monocoque.

i know, again it`s a long, long article but there`s so much to tell, and it always makes me happy when thinking back to that times…
I believe it was 558hp at first....just one simply question and now you`ll need an hour to read the answer....i`m sorry :lol:

i´ve no idea of a “soundtrack in episode 302 of smallville” but ´Tallica`s last single is named “Frantic”
http://www.metallica.com/index.asp?item=1331

1zippo1

10-13-2003, 03:47 PM

Thx for your answer st-anger. You were right about the song, that was the one I was looking for!!!

I'm convinced the CGT will be amazing, there is no doubt in my mind about that. Surely not after reading the articles about it but I would still love to see a comparison between the new supercars to see how they'll stack up. I don't think that there was a time before this, when so many amazing cars appeared at the same time.

Chingachgook

10-14-2003, 03:31 AM

Originally posted by st-anger
´ve done some investigations on that, how WR could know that the CGT is better or the Enzo, and here`s what i know now:
Porsche is going to lend a CGT to Ferrari for approx. a week in oct, so mr. benuzzi can find out who`s done the better job.
Ferrari already borrowed an enzo to Porsche, so that`s how WR can say "his" car is better, but i think we all know what benuzzi`s going to say about the CGT....
so not some news at all concerning CGT vs. Enzo but just to inform you...

Thanks, really thanks!! :D
You're a gold mine man! :wink:
We all know what Benuzzi is going to say. The Enzo's setup has been developed by Benuzzi, so he feels at home in the Ferrari. Same thing for the CGT and WR (one if the greatest drivers of all time)
I hope the Enzo will be faster....I love Ferrari!
Ps:You know that Benuzzi is faster than Shummy at Fiorano in the 575M maranello? 3tenth...but still faster. :lol:

alondahan

10-14-2003, 05:49 AM

Ps:You know that Benuzzi is faster than Shummy at Fiorano in the 575M maranello? 3tenth...but still faster. :lol:

Benuzzi is faster than Shumy in all of the production cars :P

He's an amazing driver. I saw him driving a 360 Challange Stradale in Fiorano. Very impressive to se him driving.

Chingachgook

10-14-2003, 06:33 AM

Benuzzi was faster than Gerhard Berger also in the F1 car :lol: :lol:

Imagine how cool a ride in the old 'Ring in the F40...
Ok ok stop imagination

st-anger

10-14-2003, 01:21 PM

Imagine how cool a ride in the old 'Ring in the F40...
Ok ok stop imagination

i´ve already experienced that...
it was a present for my 30th birthday from some of my colleagues, thx for that again guys!!!
so in a Ferrari F40 with a pro ( Giuseppe Timperanza ) behind the wheel two laps round the Nordschleife, an amazing experience, so when you´ll be in germany some time, be sure to book on that site:

http://www.timpi.de/index.html

http://www.timpi.de/pix/f40-2.jpg
http://www.timpi.de/pix/timpi-lizenz.gif

sorry it´s only in german, but i´ll tell you some things worth to know:
driver: Giuseppe Timperanza, finished third at the 24h race last year, has lapped the `ring over 10000 times...
car: Ferrari F40 640hp...
price: 250€ per lap, but really worth it!!!

if anyone is interested and has problems with the site or communication with timpi, i´ll see what i can do....

:arrow: BTW, SEVEN DAYS TO GO.... :shock: 8) :D

stradale

10-15-2003, 10:54 AM

:shock: ... :shock: I'm speechless... Wow, I would really like that.

You're a lucky man, st-anger. And in seven days, you'll be lucky again!

st-anger

10-15-2003, 11:33 AM

:shock: ... :shock: I'm speechless... Wow, I would really like that.

You're a lucky man, st-anger. And in seven days, you'll be lucky again!

well i suppose the ring isn`t that far away from where you`re living, isn`t it???
250€ per round is a bit much, e.g. two laps with a M3 CSL is about 190€, but it`s a Ferrari F40, a legend in automotive history!!!
and it`s really worth the money, even for a non-Ferrari fan...

well, of course i´m lucky, but it has also been a lot of hard, hard work i had to do in my life so far, and only because of that hard work my life is pretty comfortable now...

and yes, SIX days to go and my dream´ll come true.
i´ve always been dreaming of driving the CGT since i saw the design drawings and early concepts when i was working in weissach, and you heared from colleagues: " you´ve heared about the latest news:....this`ll be on the CGT...it`ll have this and that...."
so i´m really excited, and i can`t wait to hear from Porsche Leipzig, i´ll get a phonecall at the end of that week how it`ll take place exactely...
maybe i should bring the €50k with me, that you have to deposit when you want to order one.... :wink:

stradale

10-15-2003, 05:11 PM

I think the Ring is about 600 km from here, but if you take the cost of getting there and back and add 250€ (or 500, after one lap I know I'd want another one), then it's some serious money I'm looking at. At least, for a student. It's gotta be worth it though. If I would be doing something like this, there is no doubt in my mind it has to be in the F40. Maybe in a couple of months, when I'm hoping to have my degree and have a job...

We all want to hear from you what it was like driving the CGT and pictures/video would be very welcome as well. Are you going to sleep at all this week? :)

It could be very tempting to desposit. That is, if they're not all spoken for. You could deposit and see if by some miracle you have the rest of the money by the time they've finished building your CGT... :wink:

Chingachgook

10-16-2003, 03:44 AM

st-anger, I don't have words to say...old Ring+ Ferrari F40+Great driver at he wheel=a dream come true!

My compliments :wink:

st-anger

10-16-2003, 02:10 PM

We all want to hear from you what it was like driving the CGT and pictures/video would be very welcome as well. Are you going to sleep at all this week? :)

It could be very tempting to desposit. That is, if they're not all spoken for. You could deposit and see if by some miracle you have the rest of the money by the time they've finished building your CGT... :wink:

sleep, what is sleep??? i`ve a 24/7 job man.... :lol:
sure i´m very excited but those few hours i can sleep, i´m sleeping like a baby, not even time for my wife in bed...j/k.....:wink:

as i said before, you guys will be one of the first to know how it was like, and as i posted before it`s actually not allowed to take some pics inside the facility, but i´m confident that i can manage something, so no worries, there`ll be some pics, i can`t promise about the vids...
i think i´m able to sort all this out tomorrow, when i´ll get the phonecall...

...and trust me, if i´d be single, my deposit would have been made a year ago, the money won`t be an issue and i´m not speaking of the 50k...

:arrow: BUT

my wife`d leave me if i`d buy a 452k€ car, and i love her more than anything else, even when "anything else" is a Porsche Carrera GT...

10-16-2003, 02:20 PM

Hey, you sure you can't tell her it's just a 50k car? :P

st-anger

10-17-2003, 04:42 PM

so, as promised i got a call from miss Todt from Porsche Leipzig today, and here are the formalities for tuesdays CGT event:
we`ll meet up at 1 pm, optional i can have lunch there too for free if i´ll come earlier. i decided to go by plane because on tuesday early morning i have some work to do in the firm and i think i can leave at nine am. the airport in Leipzig is quite near to the Porsche facility, but no problem, Porsche`ll have a shuttle service.
that`s how the day`ll unfold:
after lunch we`ll see a presentation video regarding the facility and the CGT, a tour of the museum and a visit of the production facility, the rest of the time ( ~6 pm ) track activities with CGT, 996 GT2, 996 TT, 996 4S, 955 TT & S, because there`ll only be two CGT`s, so that no one is "bored" while waiting, we are able to test drive some 996`s and 955`s, not that bad either IMO... :D
in addition to the CGT ride, i`m definitely looking forward to test drive a 955 off road, i think this`ll be quite fun :wink:
the pictures issue is as follows, i´m allowed to take my digi-cam with me, but i´ll have to show all the pics to a Porsche official first and i´ll have to name a purpose for the pics. taking pics at the production places is definitely prohibited.
so only FOUR days to go, i´m getting a bit nervous.... :wink:

10-17-2003, 05:01 PM

Superfucking cool! Very very nice from them to throw in some more Porsche to play with!!!!!!!!!

I'm nervous too!!

st-anger

10-19-2003, 11:12 AM

quite interesting comparison set up by "Motor Trend"
Porsche 955TT vs. 996TT X50, so both with 450hp:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suv/112_0310_frst_porsche/index1.html

some interesting figures IMO, a ~5200 pound SUV does the 1/4 mile in less than 14sec and it only needs two feet more than the X50 from 60-0...

as i`ve always said, the Cayenne is just unbelievable...and not only for a SUV...

TWO days to go... :D

stradale

10-22-2003, 05:32 AM

Has anyone heard anything of st-anger yet? Yesterday was his day with the CGT (and some other toys).

novass

10-22-2003, 05:37 AM

maybe he didnt want to get out of the CGT and just kept going LOL

10-22-2003, 05:41 AM

LOL, I hope he'll be back soon!!! We need to know, we need to droooool :D

1zippo1

10-22-2003, 06:38 AM

maybe he didnt want to get out of the CGT and just kept going LOL

hahaha. So maybe he's still on the run with the car. He's probably somewhere in Moskou by now :lol:

stradale

10-22-2003, 07:43 AM

If I was on the run in a CGT I'd head for the mediterranean region. Better weather, better roads and in Monte Carlo nobody will think you stole it.

st-anger

10-22-2003, 09:21 AM

...stay tuned for the whole story, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow... but i promise at least `till friday you`ll get a FULL REPORT :!:
you know, i`ve experienced a lot, but these two days... i still can`t find the right words!

here`s the FIRST pic, that i´ve taken out of my cab which picked me up from the airport: a Porsche Cayenne TT ....just a starter...

entering "Porsche town"
http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CGT_Leip_1.JPG

10-22-2003, 09:22 AM

Shit, welcome back dude!! I really can't wait to read your story! Take your time, but please, do it quickly :P:P :D

draak666

10-22-2003, 11:27 AM

Looking forward to it. If you want to dedicate a whole website to it, let me know. You can use mine. :D 50MB available for all your pictures and video material. :D

scubywrxr

10-22-2003, 02:33 PM

DAmmmmn .. I was away for a few days almost missed this one off event!
St-anger give us intel pleeeez.. :mrgreen:

st-anger

10-24-2003, 04:15 AM

- new spy pics 987 Boxter Coupe and 997 -

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/987_Boxter_Coupe_1.jpg
http://members.aon.at/st-anger/987_Boxter_Coupe_2.jpg

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/997_911_1.jpg
http://members.aon.at/st-anger/997_911_2.jpg
http://members.aon.at/st-anger/997_911_3.jpg

a german car mag called “Autozeitung” set up a comparison 360CS vs. GT3 RS

http://www.autozeitung.de/heft/images/teaser23.jpg

0-100kmh:
CS: 4.2sec.
RS: 4.6sec.

0-120kmh:
CS: 6.2sec
RS: 5.4sec.

lap times:
CS: 1.39:9
RS: 1.39:3

the RS is superiour in overall handling but the CS looks and sounds better concerning to the editor.
but we`ve to wait untill “Sport Auto” is going to publish its test to know exactely…

:arrow: NOTE: i think the CGT report`ll be finished in a couple of hours, the pics too, we ( jabba & I ) may need a bit longer with the vids...

stradale

10-24-2003, 05:15 AM

We'll be waiting patiently :) Oh hell, no. :| We'll be waiting though... :P

10-24-2003, 09:05 AM

In the Boxster coupé there seems to be some Photoshop work...

st-anger

10-24-2003, 12:26 PM

yep it`s definately a computer retouching...

draak666

10-24-2003, 01:30 PM

AutoBild.de do that a lot. They have someone to make images of how a car might get to look.

scubywrxr

10-24-2003, 01:56 PM

new boxster looks like it has audi tt crossed with 911 lines.. huh?
best handling in class i guess...

st-anger

10-24-2003, 05:54 PM

for those who aren´t in the DL/RV club, here`s the report:

- Porsche Leipzig Carrera GT experience -

so where should i start… oct.21st , 22nd 2003, two days i won`t forget in my entire life, that´s for sure…

i arrived by plane at approx. 11am at leipzig airport, being met there by a Porsche representative and were transferered to the customer center with a Cayenne TT :shock:
the facility is just some minutes away from the airport, so i took the opportunity to have lunch at the customer center’s restaurant, which is on the third level of the center’s tower.
it`s very contemporary, stylish and really relaxing with a marvellous view over the factory’s area. the 100 foot diamond-shaped tower is the centerpiece of the leipzig facility, which can accommodate up to 500ppl. on the ground floor is the reception area where cars ( 955 ) are prepared for customer collection. there`re four delivery suites on the right where brand new Cayennes were waiting inside to be collected by their owners. there`s also a VIP lounge with a bar and flat screen TV´s where you can enjoy personalised service and a first view of the test track layout. on the first floor is the Selection shop which offers a wide variety of accessoires on disply, including a range of clothing and other products. on the next floor a 54-seater cinema is located where the presentation videos are watched. we saw a film about the facility in leipzig and the Cayenne, a technical overview of the CGT, and for the very first time, the official CGT video featuring Walter Röhrl. that floor also holds the test track control center and the small seminar room. the control center has 32 monitors and four additional ones for the offroad track. the race track is FIA certified, 3707.109m long and 12m wide. as you might know, the track is a combination of several racing circuits around the world featuring corners like the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca, Parabolica and Curve di Lesmo at Monza, Loews at Monaco, Bus Stop at Spa-Francorchamps, the Mobil S at Nürburgring or the S`s at Suzuka.

http://www.porsche-leipzig.com/de/erfahren/strecke.htm

on the third floor is the 900m² auditorium with a capacity of 500ppl including a full size stage. right behind the auditorium is the restaurant, where you can choose from an extensive buffet or à la carte menu and enjoy spectacular panoramic views of the proving ground. on the top floor is a vehicle exhibition which provides a fascinationg insight into Porsche engineering, past and present: a 996TT cutaway, several Cup racing cars, a rare 917, the GT1 which won LeMans in `98, the 959 which won Paris-Dakar, a F1 car with Porsche engine, one of the first 911`s from 1963 and some others.

we immediately got some soft drinks, but guess what, you can also order a “Cayenne” wine ( from Argentina, red or white )
lunch itself was very good, including starter, main course and a dessert finishing with an espresso, and everything for free!!!
time for some small talk with the other participants, all in all we only were 8 ppl on the first day. at 12:50, our host, a really nice and cute lady greeted us and told us the program for one of the most exciting afternoons ever...
first, we were guided into the cinema where we saw the vids I mentioned obove.
after that, it lasted approx. an hour, we went outside to walk over to the production factory, but before we all had to switch off our mobile phones and weren´t allowed to take cameras with us.
there was a Porsche photographer who took pics when you told him, and he also took some pics from every participant. at the end of the day we all received a personalized DVD with a Porsche cover and all the pics on it from inside the production and the pics he took during the driving event, they are really well done a very professional…
unfortunately i´m not allowed to show you these pics. :? to the left of the entrance is the casino for the workers and engineers, to the right the modern and airy offices of the engineers, really not comparable with the one`s at Weissach.
i can`t remenber the exact figure but i think there are ~300 workers and only 50 or 70 for the CGT. passing the door, there´s the production line itself. to the right the 955 is assembled to the left the CGT. only 10% of the Cayenne is produced in leipzig the rest of the components arrives mostly by train either from the VW factory, from Porsche suppliers or from Porsche in Zuffenhausen, e.g the engine. the production line itself is very clean, everywhere quality control and post-production adjustments, you can see the marriage of the engine and chassis…
next was the CGT production which is completely different than the 955`s, because there are no big machines, everything is made by hand so no traditional assembly line.
there are seven platforms, on the first one the naked carbon fiber shell is nearly the only thing you can see, and after all seven stations the car is ready for the final test drive. we saw the cars "0012" and "0017" in production process and one which just came in from the test lap, being checked with a laptop. the whole tour was very interesting especially for me as a technician, i asked hundreds of questions, but I think most of the other ppl were a bit bored too…
we went back to the lounge, again were offered some soft drinks, coffee or tea and then it was time for the main event:

:arrow: THE DRIVING
there where three boxes and behind the workshop, in the boxes were two CGT`s a GT-silver one and another in Fayence-yellow. the yellow one is for the us-market and had the smaller seats installed, the silver one is for euro-market and had the wider ( +15mm) seats.
in addition there were two GT2`s, a TT X50, two new GT3`s, a C4S, a Cayenne TT and five Cayenne S for off-roading, so quite an expensive parking lot ( ~2.3 million € :!: :!: :!: )
next we were introduced to the proffesional drivers ( Timo Bernhard and Roland Kussmaul )
who were piloting the CGT`s and to the instructors. everyone got a helmet and we were ready to roll… first, I grabed the TT X50, because this is the car I know best of all of them, drove a few laps, very interesting with that Corkscrew Corner combination but i`m too familiar with the TT that it was a real surprise/experience. as i´ve heared before you hardly recognise the X50 package the engine is a bit more spontaneous but you can`t really feel a big difference, the TT is a perfect car just like it is. the C4S was also nice, but nothing compared to the GT2, no TC, no PSM just a true racing machine, and with it`s RWD real fun. i think all in all i´ve driven nearly 15 or 20 laps with it, it`s been just such a pleasure… but the one which impressed me mainly, except the CGT, was the Cayenne TT :!: . i asked an instruktor to drive me around as fast as he can, and damm, that thing IS fast, what a marvellous V8, simply unbelievable for a 5200 pound car. my instructor really pushed hard, every corner with a nice AWD drift, and you really have to push hard, because it seems like the 955 has endless traction.
after some laps it was my turn, and it was so good, i even missed that the others were gone for offroading and that it started to rain quite heavy. so i drove back into the pits and asked Timo Bernhard if we can hit the road with the CGT, but he told me that it`s too dangerous in the wet for us “unskilled” drivers now. he said that it`s no problem if i want to be on the passenger seat, but I came to drive the CGT and I wouldn`t have left before this.
…of course I took the opportunity to take a ride on the passenger seat with a pro driver in the CGT in the wet, and even on wet pavement the grip level was fascinating, but Timo said afterwards “tomorrow we`ll find out” …just smiling… :D
so, business as usual with Porsche, everything is possible and the lady at the reception told me that she`ll book a room in a hotel in leipzig for me and all the other ppl who haven`t had the chance for the ride. and indeed, after dinner in the “Porsche restaurant” we ( four ppl ) were transferred to a very nice hotel ( ***** ) at the outskirts of leipzig.
we spent a very nice evening at the hotel bar and I found some new friends, because all of them were really nice, decent and relaxed, just great ppl…
after a call with my wife I went to bed…but can`t sleep the whole fucking night… :wink:
next day, the weather seems to be ok and at 9am two Cayennes picked us up from the hotel and drove us to the track. after a cup of coffee we entered the boxes by the time Timo and Roland had just finished to warm up the engines.
but again we had to wait, because the ambulance which is always present when such events are taking place was stuck in a traffic jam :? but after 20min or so they arrived too and the show began: :arrow:

for starting the engine just turn the key, which is Porsche typical on the left of the wheel, so no trendy “Start” button. the engine revs up to about 2000+rpm and then falls back to idle speed, just like a true racing engine…
a sound that makes the hairs on the back of your neck tingle, and from that time on i slightly realized what i´m about to experience… 8)
entering the CGT is not a real problem and surprise, surprise even a person like me who`s nearly 1.90m tall has no problems, even when the roof panels are on, there´re still 5cm left.
the steering wheel is in perfect position but also adjustable, the seats are like a second skin, simply perfect with some nice features to adjust. the whole interiour looks very sporty, clean but also innovative with carbon fibre and magnesium elements in combination with that brown leather, very nice.
the driver´s seat is seperated from the passenger´s one with an elegant central spar which holds the 917-style gearlever, and some controls for air con, window lift, centralised door locking, TC, and a “must try” when you see it for the first time, a switch for the rear wing.
at the top there`s the display for the “Porsche Online Pro” system, e.g. BOSE sound system, navi...
to reduce weight, aircon, audio and navigation systems are all available as no-cost options.
the car without these things has 50kg less weight, because there`s also a smaller battery installed.
so chief designer Harm Lagaay did a real good job on the one hand with the interiour, no cramped cabin everything is there, where you expect it to be, but also from the outside the whole car looks amazing. just like the Enzo, no ugly aerodynamics with huge wings or something like that, it just looks lovely and immediately like a Porsche.
but back to the main experience, the driving:
the CGT has an extremely short clutch pedal travel, and it requires a very sensitive but also powerful foot. one participant brought a device to measure the force that is needed to depress the clutch pedal, an engineer claimed that it`ll need 17kg of force to depress it, after measuring we knew that you´ll have to apply it with 22kg. just to compare, in a F40 34kg are needed.
next apply the lever to he left of the wheel right under the one for the indicators and full beam, the one for the info system which has the display under the rev meter. check tyre pressure and the most improtant thing, switch to “track mode” :twisted:

nothing is as embarrassing as to stall the engine during the driveaway…
:oops:
so this how to properly launch a CGT: put in first, rev to about 3-, or 4000rpm and step off the clutch pedal with a bit more grinding than on everydays cars, you truely feel it when the PCCC clutches in, it`s a bit tricky because of the standing pedals in combination with the higher pedal forces but with a bit of practice it`s not a real problem.
and what`s then going on is truly insane:
in first 44, in second nearly 90, in third nearly 120….not km/h, but mph!!! and the best, shifting @ 8200+rpm, i`ve nothing experienced something like this before. an exhaust sound like a Formula 1 car ( but Euro 4 exhaust standard ), the engine response is unbelievable, it`s compareable with a racing bike with 200hp. accelerating away from zero isn`t only cool, it`s a fucking experience. put in first, rev @ 4000 and after dropping the clutch there´s hardly any wheelspin, the car seems to have endless traction, the first two gears are gone in seconds, shifting @ 8000+ is giving you goose bumps because of the unelievable howling of the marvellous V10, you can hear the screaming of the gear-driven cams…unbelieveable!!! i´ve never heared such a sound before in a street car, it´s simply unique.
there are some cars acc. faster from 0 to 60, but everything after 60 to 150+ is beyond anything i´ve experienced in my life, and i´ve driven, or been on the passenger seat of nearly every Porsche, or any other decent sports cars.
accelerating up to third, fourth….unbelieveable, 0 to 124 in under 10 second seems to be possible with some more training with the tricky ceramic clutch, still accelerating, up to speeds of 155+mph. on long straights at speeds of nearly 200mph the car`s stability is superior you hardly notice the speed. 0 to 186mph in something around 20 to 25 seconds. this is GTR750 level (0-186:21,7sec!!!) who`s the one to beat in that discipline, although Edonis claims their supercar just needs 12sec from 0-186 (0-60: 2.9sec, 0-124: 5.7sec) just to compare a McLaren F1 needs 23.4sec, a SL55 32.5sec and a Lambo Murc 34.2 sec from 0-186mph
braking…just fabulous again, those enormous ceramics are braking like a real race car, and the CGT truly is one. and again the sound when shifting down…so sexy!!! and for those who still have doubts, the first corner is on the way…
I thought that a GT2 is the one to beat on the track , but in comparison with the CGT…there is no comparsion. on every lap you try harder to push the car to its limit, but you are the one who is at the limit first… those lateral g-forces aren`t to believed but the whole structure is extremely rigid, no roll because of the low center of gravity, the engine lies entirely ahead of the rear wheels and it`s really record-breakingly low to the ground, the steering is totally linear, sharp, fast and the feedback is just amazing, in combination with the long wheelbase, handling is predictable controllable and agile …
accelerating out of a corner in second or third again is an experience with the V10`s terrific torque range the CGT just pulls away like nothing else in any gear. the Michelins, which were developed exclusively for Porsche, are really fighting against the V10, but fail. burn baby, burn… btw, this is the first production use of a tire with two separate rubber compounds, a softer outer optimized for handling, and a more durable inner designed for wear.
high speed cornering is no problem with the CGT, the handling is extremely good even at higher speeds, due to it`s very good aerodynamic drag at a Cd value of 0.39.
you`re thinking you are very brave when entering a mid corner in third, but the CGT just peels into it, not a real effort for the pushrods, you immediately try harder, depress the accelerator to top end, and it`s like...wow….although the springs compress a little, you`ve to countersteer as fast as you can, in the meantime TC took away just enough power to keep things together and again the engine revs up to about 8200 in a fucking nanosecond, shifting up into fourth and hell yeah, sometimes driving a car is really better than to have sex...

but when a real pro like Roland or Timo is behind the wheel for an demonstration lap in the DRY and he switches TC off, goes sideways with all four wheels and countersteers drifts you`ve never experienced before in such a beautiful car, even one-handed, to demonstrate the handling abilities of the CGT, then you really notice that first: you can`t drive, although you thought so, and second: you are just amazed of the potential of the car…insane...in the wet but for sure in the dry!
accelerating out of a hairpin is a real pleasure, shifting through the gears, hardly any traction loss because of the perfect performance of the TC, just pulling away like going ballistic, and again that sound especially in first, when there´s some wheelspin and pushing hard up to the limiter, you`re thinking the control light of TC´ll burn in any second….this is something you can`t describe, you just have to feel it…no video can describe this, which is a pitty, because i´ve watched them immediately afterwards on my laptop, but there´s no way to feel the speed, the g-forces and of course the sound.
but the CGT can also be a very smooth ride, although the suspension is better than on any other supercar, i remind you of the suspension problems of the Enzo round the nordschleife, it`s not bumpy or uncomfortable. to be honest i haven`t expected that.
the pushrods with double wishbone suspension allows more leverage over the damper strokes which reduces the effects of friction it rides firmly but with great finesse, smoothing away all the sharpness and judder, simply perfect one the one hand on the track but also on the other hand on the road.
when driving at normal speeds there`s quite some wind noise, but not much, just like in my Z4. with the panels on the roof, there`s hardly any wind noise due to the sound deading material of the panels, and even at higher speeds ( 120mph+ ) wind noise is always way overruled by the beautiful engine sound.
you can drive the CGT in sixth at 35mph so IMO also very suitable for everydays life even in cities, although i`ve to admitt that parking`d be a problem, also the clutch isn`t very suitable for city driving, but maybe after some more practicing this won`t be a problem any more…

in total i´ve driven 22 laps myself, another 6 with Roland behind the wheel and on Tuesday again 6 in the wet with Timo.
btw average fuel consumption: 25,8ltrs, IMO not that much…
to compare, Cayenne TT: 41,2ltrs!!!

while waiting for the CGT i again tried a Cayenne, this time a “S”, also very nice although there´s a huge difference between 450 and 340hp, but the sound of the “S” is better because as you might know, turbochargers aren`t the best friends of a exhaust sound engineer
at midday we again had lunch in the restaurant and then we went downstairs to the lounge to have a cup of coffee and I had some interesting talks with the drivers, technicians.
again, very exclusive material: there has been a comparison on the nordschleife, this is now confirmed and it´s also confirmed that the CGT was ~20 sec. faster than the Enzo under semi-dry conditions, so the Pirelli/Michelin tyre is another topic in that connection.
one technician uses a CGT as a daily driver to test the quality, he already drove 20k+ km with it without any problems.
I had a very interesting talk with one of the chief techs who were there to explain all the tech-details to those who don`t know much about it, and he told me that there`ve been a head to head comparsion on the Leipzig test track. the CEO of Infineon bought the 349th Enzo, the one of Michael Schumacher and one day in summer he came along with it to the test track, because he wanted to know what`s the better car. after some Porsche engineers from the CGT production had studied the Enzo from the technical view they immediately criticised the bad working up. the gap dimensions of the doors, and chassis parts were way above the standard measures, the bonnet seems to have 50kg, the whole wiring is a bit of a chaos, hardly any cable conduits where they should be, especially at the gullwing doors and engine compartment, he showed us detailed photos as a proof and when i compared them i really have to say, that there`s quite a high quality difference in the details between the two cars.
and after a test drive the guy from Infineon was really surprised that the CGT handles so good compared to his Enzo. he allowed a driving dynamics engineer to test drive it and after a few laps the engineer came back into the pits and said something like this: “just gimme the CGT”
he couldn`t tell me some lap times, but said that the CGT was faster, especially on the slower layout with lot`s of corners.

after a very nice and cordial good-bye i was transfered to the airport
so i hope you enjoyed my little report, and i´m looking forward to tell you some good news in some weeks time when I´ll know exactely, because I took some time to talk about business too there…

:arrow: here`s how it`ll work out with the pics and vids: :!:

plz keep in mind that this event was very exclusive and even more specail for me, so the most important thing is that the ppl who save the pics/vids DO NOT post them anywhere else on the web. this should be a special for the JW ppl only!!!
i´m not supposed to show you my material and I think I can expect that from you guys!
so again, there`s a own thread for my media, only for the “decent” JW ppl, for those who are members of the DL section/reviewers club. I think those ppl who are in there´ll respect my guidelines and won`t break `em. on every pic/vid `ll be a copyright notice as well and a “JW exclusive” sign!
sorry for all that, but these pics/vids are too important for me, so I decided to put it like this.
I took nearly 200pics and over 25min of vids, you´ll just see parts of all this, I hope you understand, on most of the pics there are participants or myself shown too, and i´m not going to publish this material!
i´m sorry for the quality of the vids, sepecially the sound, it`s far away from the real one...
so i think/hope we all can live quite well with these restrictions. :?: :!:

if there are any questions left, don`t hesitate to ask!!!

fedezyl

10-24-2003, 06:23 PM

st-anger.......
WOW you are THE MAN! you are sooo lucky!! really I've been so looking forward to your report and you don't know how happy it makes me to finally have it here!!

Jabba

10-24-2003, 06:26 PM

I will add you to the reviewers club for now so you can enjoy the pics and videos....as I know you have been around for a while and have posted some good stuff in the past....its up to you if you stay in the group however... :wink:

fedezyl

10-24-2003, 06:33 PM

Cool, thanks jabba! I really appreciate it!
I'm kinda struggling with my ISP right now, they are fixing some issues with the bandwith, so my dowload speed is a bit better than 56k but not much...so I can dowload a couple of vid's a day only...but thanks again jabba!!

st-anger

10-24-2003, 06:38 PM

fedezyl

10-24-2003, 06:42 PM

LoL
...fedezyl is my old tech m8

Still working on that tech part though...
You know, I was talking to GIS a few days ago on MSN and though it would be cool to have a track day with JW members...maybe an idea for the future...who knows...

HoboPie

10-25-2003, 06:06 PM

I can't say I'm overly surprised by the Enzo Nurburgring time. In the recent EVO they seem to have problems with the handling which was in the wet/semi wet. I'm not sure exactly what semi-dry is, but I would like to see something in the very dry because from everything I have heard the CGT rapes in anything remotely wet.

Don't worry no fanboys here, I just want to see a completely neutral comparison. By that I mean if someone like Walter Rohrl tests the CGT for 100/1000s of hours which do you think he is going to be faster in. It will effect him even on a subconcious level. As far as I can tell the CGT is easier to drive which is definitely a plus also.

edit: Also wasn't it Walter Rohrl who said the CGT was faster, but not by as much as Porsche would like us to think(CAR magazine maybe). Well if it is 20 seconds what was Porsche hoping for?

I do however have a ridiculous respect for this car. It moved from what I thought was going to be just another supercar(sort of what the Enzo appeared to be with at its launch because of the accel figures) and become what appears to be an Enzo toppler.

Bilal786

10-25-2003, 06:31 PM

St-anger, what is the exact 0-300km/hr time?

st-anger

10-25-2003, 06:55 PM

St-anger, what is the exact 0-300km/hr time?

sorry, i can`t give you any confirmed infos on that, but 20-25sec is likely...

Bilal786

10-25-2003, 07:40 PM

as in your opinion likely, or even walter's, or from what the porsche people say? :D And can you confirm that the Mclaren f1's time to do it is exactly 23.4?

HoboPie

10-25-2003, 07:53 PM

Sorry I missed some info earlier on and I tried to rad through it all, but I only found a small snippet. What is the issue with the Michelins and the Pirellis?

I couldn't tell if it had to do with the Enzo or the CGT or both.

st-anger

10-25-2003, 07:59 PM

:wink: no, as i said, this is only a guess from myself, no confirmed figures from Porsche, but with all the infos and talks i´m quite sure that it`ll be something like 20-25sec...
i´ve made a note of the F1 figure, so it`s a confirmed, tested time and no guess unfortunately i can´t remember where i got it...

HoboPie

10-25-2003, 08:15 PM

Is there info on the tire issue?

Bilal786

10-26-2003, 07:15 AM

Thanks.

st-anger

10-26-2003, 08:11 AM

st-anger

10-26-2003, 08:12 AM

997 Cabrio spy vid @ nordschleife

http://movies.autoexpress.co.uk/porche997.mov

10-26-2003, 08:44 AM

Oh wow, thanks :) I always love spy vids :D

HoboPie

10-26-2003, 12:50 PM

st-anger

10-26-2003, 01:27 PM

Is there info on the tire issue?

what do you mean exactely???

i´ve posted some infos on that topic in the "Porsche news" some time ago, but here`s what i know:
as you´ve read in the report, the CGT is equipped with the special Michelins in the production version, BUT during testing at the nordschleife the Pirellis were 20sec+ faster per lap, and 20sec faster on the nordschleife is so damm fucking much, i simply couldn´t believe it, but Porsche technicians confirmed that. but the`d choosen the Michelins, because under semi-wet conditions the Pirellis were a bit tricky, with the Michelins the car was more driveable...
any questions left, just ask...!

Sorry, I just put tire issue because it was so close to my first post which addressed the actual question. Anyway in(absolutely amazing) review you mentioned the pirelli/michelin issue and I didn't know exactly what you meant.

I guess now that you were referring to the fact that the CGT was 20 seconds faster on the pirellis, but also about 20 seconds faster than the Enzo on Nordschleife in the semi-dry. My question is, is that compounded so the CGT is POTENTIALLY 40 seconds faster or are they about the same speed when the CGT uses Michelins?

Also I'm not sure if I missed this or if it is just unknown, but which tires did the CGT do the 7:3x with?

Thanks for any info you have or at least tolerating my complete ignorance.

it always makes me happy to share some infos, especially about Porsche, so really no problem...
so, the early Prototypes of the CGT were using Pirelli tyres. with that tyres, the car was 20sec faster than with the Michelins in the DRY!
but because of the better overall handling, Porsche decided to go for the Michelins, although with that tyres the car would be considerable slower...

the other ~20sec is another topic, the production version, equipped with the Michelins had been that 20sec faster than the Enzo under semi-dry conditions, so this has nothing to do with the Pirellis...

and during testing, WR clocked a 7:37 with the Michelins.

HoboPie

10-26-2003, 02:31 PM

Ok, I didn't originally think there was a connection, but in your review right after the info about the Enzo, you say something about the pirelli/michelin connection.

Maybe I just read it wrong.

So the Carrera GT COULD have been about 40 seconds faster than the Enzo on the ring if they had gone with the Pirellis? wow. And the Enzo is only getting mid 7:50s? Ouch.

alondahan

10-26-2003, 02:47 PM

st-anger

10-26-2003, 03:18 PM

So the Carrera GT COULD have been about 40 seconds faster than the Enzo on the ring if they had gone with the Pirellis? wow. And the Enzo is only getting mid 7:50s? Ouch.

there's no way the cgt is 40 (or even 20) sec faster than the Enzo, and there's no way the Enzo laps in 7:50. a Jag XJ220 laps the ring in 7:46, and the Enzo (and the F50) is much faster than the Jag. also, I think the Enzo will be faster than the cgt in the ring (and everywhere else for that matter). the cgt maybe faster in wr's hands, but that's understandable. he knows the car like the back of his hand, and if he drives the Enzo, I'm sure he'll be much less motivated to put a fast lap.

i think you missed the point: under semi-dry conditions!!!
i´ve never said, that the Enzo is 20sec. slower in the dry, this´d be impossible...
i still think the CGT´ll be faster also in the dry, but maybe just some seconds, and in the dry 2 or 3 seconds a lap is VERY much!!!
about the WR thing, would be nice to see how`s Dario doing against Walter, but i don`t know how familiar Dario is with the nordschleife...

HoboPie

10-26-2003, 04:30 PM

Yeah, my first post in this thread was about the semi-dry conditions, but I had almost forgotten about that myself, but my prior post was more incredulity rather than statement.

And that is a good point about knowing the ring well. Dario may be good, but dealing with someone who is at least his equal in talent, but much more experienced would be impossible.

scubywrxr

10-28-2003, 03:59 PM

dario would not have a chance against WR - WR knows the `ring like the back of his hand.. Dario laps a tiny Fiorano test circuit :wink: .. He may be faster than Micheal Schumacher in a 360 but he will be fooling himself if he thinks he can beat ring master WR...

st-anger

10-28-2003, 04:04 PM

sad but true for Dario...

1zippo1

10-28-2003, 04:59 PM

the early Prototypes of the CGT were using Pirelli tyres. with that tyres, the car was 20sec faster than with the Michelins in the DRY!

and during testing, WR clocked a 7:37 with the Michelins.

Now ok I know you were talking about the early prototypes so this 20 sec difference in the dry between the Michelins & Pirellis might be a bit smaller but should still make a significant difference

Might I conclude about this that 7:37-20sec = 7:17... (or is my reasoning wrong - I might be I know :) )

Oh and one other thing, If these two (Dario & WR) really would meet for a duel, it should be on a neutral track, like euhm Francochamps. That's a good track and I would be able to go and watch :P IMO I think these cars will be pretty close but if I look at the specs (I know that's not everything because they don't tell you all) my guess is that the Enzo will be slightly faster...

st-anger

10-28-2003, 05:00 PM

- latest infos on 987 and 997 -

nothing really special but just to keep the "Porsche news" running...
the upcomming 987 Coupe, internal termed "C7", won`t appear till end of 2005. the standard Boxter´ll have its premiere in Jan.`05 at the Detroit Auto show, this is very likely because the US market is the biggest market for Porsche. there are still some minor problems with the lead-away of the heat which produces the engine, that sits right behind the seats. on the other hand the boot of the 987C´ll have 300ltr, which is a lot for a car like this, it`s compareable with the loading space of the 350Z and Audi TT.
the seats´ll be bigger, better cushioned and outlined, Porsche´ll also stay with the intergated headrests. the instruments´ll look like the ones in the 955, and the quality´ll significantly increase. that`s why the estimated price of 40k € won`t be possible for the 2.7ltr base modell, this one´ll be ~ 43,500€, the “S” version 51,500€, so again on SLK, TT, Z4 level.
power output´ll be +15hp in the “S” version, because the displacement´ll increase from 3.2 to 3.4 ltrs. the base modell´ll stay with its 2.7ltr, but´ll also have more hp. sadly (?) the DSG won`t be available with the Boxter ( maybe in one of the 997 modells later... ), there`ll be 6speed manu or 5speed tiptronic, from 2006 on a 6speed tiptronic´ll be available as an option.
also as options, PCCB, adaptive headlights and even 19” wheels are possible.
sadly ther won`t be a 300hp Clubsport version, and also no “Boxter Cup”...

the 997 is now estimated to appear in july 2004, starting with the C2 and a interesting new modell, the C2S. it`s like the C4S now, which has the 996TT optics, so the 997C2S ´ll have wider fenders, sport suspension, 19” wheels and 10 to 20mm less ground clearance.
2005, the C2/S convertible as well as the C4/S will follow.
2006 will be a good year to buy a car, the new ~400hp GT3 and the ~ 460hp TT will be launched, one year later the Targa and the GT2.

as i mentioned before the 997 won`t be a new developement, “just” an improvement of the 996, a completely new 911 modell range is likely for 2008, the 998 series...

what a nice picture a colleague sent me today:

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/CarreraGT_10.jpg

1zippo1

10-28-2003, 05:08 PM

st-anger

10-28-2003, 05:34 PM

st-anger

10-29-2003, 03:39 PM

Indeed that's a nice pic.

St-anger, so the next one is the 997 and by 2008 there will be a 998 but then, after the 999??? What are they going to call it :P

What I'm also interested about is the new engines. For the 997 will they stick with the traditional boxer6 3.6? no V8 like the Cayenne perhaps... You didn't tell us about that :wink: Sorry for my curiosity, I'm kinda catching up tonight on things going on at JW...

after 999....i don`t care that much about such things, it`s marketing stuff...

on the other hand the engine topic is an interesting one :D
the are so many rumours about that, but it seems likely that they´ll stick with the flat-six engines possibly pushing them to 3.8 ltrs and ~350hp with the std. version. it`s really hard to guess what they are going to do, because they need an engine for the E2 modells too, so it`s very likely that these modells´ll use the modificated 955 engine, but rumours suggest that Porsche is working on a 5ltr flat-eight, which produces 450 hp even in normally-aspirated form. this engine may be used in the 997, because it`s not likely to install a V-engine into a 911...
i ´ll do some investigations on that issue, but IMO it`s more interesting how thing`s gonna work out with the "fourth Porsche :shock: " as Mr.Wiedeking called it...

f0racer

10-29-2003, 09:51 PM

Check out this Ebay auction for the Porsche Carerra GT: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6058&item=2438757187#lg

scubywrxr

10-30-2003, 05:28 PM

fantastic photo of that fender ST! The detail of the wheels and the yello caliper through the vent are amazing! thanks for sharing

st-anger

11-02-2003, 10:28 AM

- Carrera GT "Sport Auto" video -

http://194.221.99.230/elise/carrera_gt.mpg

it´s from the „Sport Auto“ Supertest.
i already know the lap times ( nordschleife, hockenheim ) and nearly all the other test figures, but i´m not allowed to post ´em here because the “Supertest” will be featured in the december issue of “Sport Auto”
maybe i´ll post some infos in the "secure" thread of my CGT report...

11-02-2003, 10:43 AM

Thanks for another CGT vid! Downloading now :D

1zippo1

11-02-2003, 12:31 PM

aha, that's one review that we've been waiting for. Thx st-anger

scubywrxr

11-02-2003, 12:51 PM

dl now.. thanks st.. please let us know the times.. the elite 30 or so wanna know.. :mrgreen:

st-anger

11-03-2003, 01:47 PM

:D OH BOY!!!
i just had a VERY VERY VERY interesting conversation with my contact from Porsche Leipzig, unfortunately i don`t have the time to tell you all the stuff, and tonight at 11pm i´m leaving to Leipzig again by plane, i don`t know if i´ll have the chance to inform you, because i don`t know the hotel where i´ll stay and if they provide an internet access on the rooms, but as soon as i´ll be back i ´ll write a full review for you guys...
i can´t believe all this, things are going quite well these times.... :D

...as always, i can´t promise anything, but maybe we`ll have to re-activate the CGT-report again, to add another experience :wink:

we´ll keep in touch guys :!:

stradale

11-03-2003, 01:58 PM

Damn!! Are you going to drive it AGAIN?! When does it end????

Sweet Jesus, the man's off to Leipzig again. That can only mean one thing, if you add his clue to the CGT report. Lucky, lucky guy...

Have fun, st-anger!

scubywrxr

11-03-2003, 04:45 PM

DAMMMMN St... U are on a lucky streak man (or as a wise man once told me u make ur own luck - I am pretty sure ur hardwork, blood, sweat and tears has got u into a pretty well connected, highly respected position ;) )
... and I thought I was on a roll in the last few days :mrgreen:

stradale

11-03-2003, 04:52 PM

I think the two of you used up the entire 'world luck reserve' for the next month, LOL! :D

scubywrxr

11-03-2003, 05:05 PM

I hope not coz I am call on friday.. dont wanna see too many sick babies "in the middle of the night"... :wink:

st-anger

11-04-2003, 05:07 AM

well, nice guess guys but for the time being i won´t get a second chance to get a ride with the CGT, BUT…
i´ve posted something related to this back in summer, and even in “good old” RF times, when i said something like this: “there`s something on the way” and i´ve been wheeling and dealing since then, and today it´ll be official:

I´LL BE WORKING FOR PAG AGAIN :!: :D :D :D

now you might understand better, why i had the chance for the CGT event, because beside the event i mainly went there for business…
as you might know, i only stopped working at the EZW because of my wife and i´ve only taken the opportunity again, because now she`s 100% fine with my decision.
she knows that when i´m honest, the work at Bosch isn`t a real pleasure, it`s too much office work, and i hate that
also very important is the fact that we won´t have to move to germany, so my wife can keep her real est. office here and i´ll be able to fly home every three to four days…

so what about JW…
believe me i had major concerns, and i even though of stopping all this, because up to now my “job” on JW had been to inform you about the latest news on everything related to Porsche, some appreciated it, some didn´t care, but everytime someone was interested, i´ve been glad to do all this… so i won´t get the infos from my m8´s at Porsche any more, i´ll be one of them again, and in that position it´s hard to provide information because when you are an insider, it´s better not to talk too much, i think you all understand what i mean...
but after finishing thinking about all this i came to the conclusion, that i ´ll go on like it`s been before, finding a way to provide you with everything you´ll be permitted to know, and maybe something more… :wink:
so the procedure for today, i´ll be picked up from my hotel at 11:30, at 12:00 lunch at the customers center and afterwards i´ll sign the employment contract. then i´ll fly home again, sort the things out with Bosch, and on Dec. 1st i ´ll start working for PAG...

so we´ll have to wait and see, how it`ll work out, i´m really looking forward to my new challenge, glad to have my dream job back, and i think we can all benefit of the new situation.
as soon as i know something more i´ll tell you, of course i already know my first project, but i´m afraid i can´t tell you the details so far...

so i´ll get dressed now because in one and a half hour it´s time to leave... :D

11-04-2003, 06:41 AM

Marvellous news st-anger :) It's so nice to see JW is always in your thought ;)

st-anger

11-04-2003, 09:07 AM

Marvellous news st-anger :) It's so nice to see JW is always in your thought ;)

IT`S DONE :D

...well really not always TT, but sometimes :wink:
i hope i´ll be able to frequently post something here, because now i know quite all my new tasks and there`ll be so much to do, but i´m really looking forward to all the hard work :P
so, i decided to stay that night, because i´ll have my first unofficial business dinner that evening here in Leipzig with some of the ppl i´m going to work with...i´m really curious...

11-04-2003, 10:22 AM

Yay! Congrats! :) we will understand if your JW time will drop :) but I'm sure we'll get some tasty infos from you :)

stradale

11-04-2003, 10:36 AM

Congatulations st-anger!

You had me going there for a while when you referred to the CGT report, LOL!

So what kind if job is it? You don't have to disclose any info on projects you're going to work on or anything, just what kind of job it is.

Forgive my ignorance, but what does PAG stand for anyway. Porsche Auto Gruppe? I'm just guessing here...

Again, congratulations!

fedezyl

11-04-2003, 10:55 AM

WOW!!! CONGRATULATIONS St-Anger!!!!!! :D It's nice to see that you are working at your favorite company again!!!!
Maybe when I buy my Porsche someday i'll go pick it up at the factory and we can take a few laps at the track!! man again CONGRATS I imagine how happy you are that everything worked out so well!!!

Also, like Stradale, i'd love to know what you'll be doing in your new job, surely working on future Porsches!! :D

Jabba

11-04-2003, 11:03 AM

Congratulations (from daddy) 8)

st-anger

11-04-2003, 01:12 PM

first, thx for the kind words, man i´m really excited...
although i´m happy like a little child at christmas it`s been a very hard desicion as well. i mean most of you aren´t married and can only imagine the situation we´ll be in from dec. on. although we both are used to it that we only see each other at weekends i can`t say that it´ll be better in the future, probably even worse...
and no worries TT, i think my time here on JW won`t drop that much, because i already know the working procedure from my time in weissach, so there`ll be plenty of time to go online, the working atmosphere is very very good at Porsche...
ah, sorry i forgot, PAG stands for "Porsche Aktien Gesellschaft" in english Porsche stock corporation, simply the name of the whole Porsche company. and i ´ll use this term as well in the future: EZW.
this is where i´ve been working for 2 1/2 years some time ago and stands for "Entwicklungszentrum Weissach" it`s the R&D and motorsports HQ from Porsche and approx. 22km away from the main HQ in Zuffenhausen/Stuttgart.
....arghhh, you greedy bastards :lol:
i can tell you that, i´ll be working in Weissach again, but also in Leipzig on a project that´ll be very interesting but primarily extremely fun, and it won`t be a completely new thing, just an improvement :D !!!
so when you´ve carefully read the "Porsche news" all the time and filtered out what i enjoyed mainly during the CGT event, you probably know what it`ll be...
but i can tell you, after finishing it´ll be a freaking beast :twisted:

1zippo1

11-04-2003, 02:14 PM

Great news for you st-anger!!

I hope you can arrange all this without having too much troubles because a busy life isn't allways easy on the relation with your family or your wife. But for some reason I think you'll crack it :wink: just like you seem to do with your job!!

I admire you! That you've gotten so far is amazing and there seems no stopping you 8)

Good luck with everything!!!

scubywrxr

11-04-2003, 02:31 PM

WOW.. All the best with the new job - I know that u are going to have tons of fun!
Please tell the engineers at porsche to start making lighter cars overall (not just the GT/RS variants).. Going back to the roots is not necessarily a bad way to gain performance in all areas plus we will be kinder to the environment by needing less fuel to move a lighter car for the same speed :wink: :mrgreen:

By the way I think that ur wife is a fantastic lady to allow u to pursue this opportunity in ur career.. u need to treasure her man.. dont be led astray by ur mistress - the Carrera GT :lol:

st-anger

11-04-2003, 03:00 PM

By the way I think that ur wife is a fantastic lady to allow u to pursue this opportunity in ur career.. u need to treasure her man.. dont be led astray by ur mistress - the Carrera GT :lol:

you`re 100% right man...
if you like, read my post in the thread "can money buy happiness" in "general", then you know what my "lady" means to me...

jon_s

11-04-2003, 03:16 PM

so when you´ve carefully read the "Porsche news" all the time and filtered out what i enjoyed mainly during the CGT event, you probably know what it`ll be...
but i can tell you, after finishing it´ll be a freaking beast :twisted:

I am thinking something to do with the Porsche Cayenne, but I could be wrong, I just remember you being impressed with it. humm, I think I will go back and read it properly!! :P

fedezyl

11-04-2003, 03:36 PM

mmm, I think you are in the right path jon_s I also think it has something to do with the Cayenne...we'll see though... :P

jon_s

11-04-2003, 04:18 PM

Perhaps a 'GT3' version lol, imagine that! A luxuary 4x4 without the luxuary!

fedezyl

11-04-2003, 04:20 PM

and without the weight!!

stradale

11-05-2003, 06:50 AM

Porsche is probably upset about the BMW X5 Le Mans being so fast around their backyard, the Ring... :D

st-anger

11-05-2003, 05:09 PM

- RUF R40 -

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/picture_library/dir_24/car_portal_pic_12263.jpg?3391

At the recent 40th anniversary celebration of Ruf Automobile GmbH, held in Austria :D , Alois Ruf gave guests a first glimpse of the mid-engined sports car that the company will launch next summer.

The prototype R40 did two laps of the Salzburgring with racer-cum-journalist Paul Frere at the wheel. Ruf says many details will change between now and production, but the company is keen to scotch speculation that the R40 is based on a Boxster because it's mid-engined. In fact, the bespoke chassis is designed in-house, married to a lightweight bodyshell and powered by a modified 911 Turbo motor with over 600bhp. Ruf declined to discuss numbers or performance figures, but if you consider that the 911 Turbo-based Ruf R Turbo was officially clocked at 218mph at Nardo last October, the R40 is potentially even faster.

Ruf believes there's a gap in the market between the 911 Turbo and the Carrera GT. The R40 aims to combine supercar presence with the driveability of a 911 Turbo. Ruf is registered as a manufacturer by the German Transport Authority and has 25 years' experience in building cars from bare shells. Despite the top speed records his modified Porsches have set over the years, Alois Ruf has always said he would build his own car one day. That day has now arrived.

PATo355

11-05-2003, 06:44 PM

Cool , ruf make some really mad shit , so being their first car they made wow !!! must be extraordinary , i think it looks awesome too

st-anger

11-07-2003, 05:30 PM

- first CGT test -

... i think you all`ve heared about the first “real” test of the CGT set up by german car mag Auto Moto Sport (AMS) which was published a week ago…
sorry for being late with the infos, I know I promised you some interesting figures too, but i´ve been so busy currently because i´ve to sort all the things out with my job at Bosch to find a adequate successor for my position...

so here´s what`s important to know about that test:

0-60: 3.8sec
0-125: 10.9 sec
top speed: 205+mph ( not measured )
weight: 1472kg
av. fuel cons.: 18.6 ltrs ( max: 24.5 )
ISO-evasion test : 97mph
rating : 5 of 5 stars ( the CGT mixes pure racing athmosphere with road capability and the
Porsche typical integrity. sensational is the acceleration, the brakes and handling, breath taking the price )

so what is to say about this??? first off, everybody´ll say “i´m quite dissapointed”, that`s been exactely my thought too, because Porsche has always been very conservative with their performance claims and for a non-insider this test might damage the the credibility of Porsche. nowadays 0-60 figures aren´t interesting any more, there are so many sub 4sec cars, so the main acceleration test is from 0-124,223 ( 0-200kmh ) and with a time of 10.9 sec it`s a second slower than Porsche claimed, so it`s been absolutely clear to me that there must be something wrong, because i know Porsche since...ever...and 99% of their claims about performance were true or better..
sadly they didn`t measured the top speed, but i think it won´t go much faster than the 205mph, although when i ´ve been driving it in 6th at around 185mph and it still accerlerated i thought it`d go easily way above 205, well who cares if 205 or 220...
exceptional is the speed of the ISO-evasion test, because with a speed of 97mph it`s faster than anything else i´ve seen so far in that category, to compare a Zonda S and the Lambo Murc reached 85mph in that test...
fuel consumption is kinda low for a car in that performance category, a min. of 12.4 ltrs is amazing, the 24.5 for max. consumption is quite the same figure we reached at test track in Leipzig ( 25.8ltrs ).
also the brakes are unrivalled with a deceleration of 12.5 m/s²
37m from 60-0 doesn´t sound good, but AMS introduced a new breaking measurement, now they don´t measure the way when the full deceleration is reached, the reaction time is also added, and for that, 37m are quite impressive.
and finally, the reason of all this: the weight...
...1472kg....my first thought: what the fuck.....???
in case you´ve forgotten, the DIN weight is 1380kg withouth the optional A/C, stereo and smaller battery. all these options would add another 50kg, so the car would weight 1430kg, so what about the remaining 42kg???
i immediately asked the right ppl at PAG and they´ve told me some interesting facts...
first, the car for the AMS test wasn´t a car directly supplied from Porsche which is common for something like that, because the manufacturers are always keen on providing the best material for satisfying results, and the AMS car had been one of the cars from the pool of press cars, and how they are treated are well known, i remind you of the journalist who managed to destroy the engine of a CGT on the first test ride on german autobahn when he selected 2nd instead of 4th, the engine reved to about 14000!!!rpm and….died….
second, the seven press cars have pre-production parts installed and a press finish with more colour layers, so they confirmed me that the production cars for the customers´ll have a DIN weight of 1380kg without the options.
and another interesting thing, the CGT prototypes of the production version were way lighter that the production version now, they only weighted 1150-1200kg, but because of the high number of units, e.g. in comparison to the Enzo, PAG had to deal with several compromise and had to change the product specification: effortless entrance, more comfortable passenger compartment (e.g. el. window lift ), complete safety features, full road capability (e.g. higher ground clearance), EURO4 exhaust standard and worldwide specifications added ~200kg...sadly, just imagine that car with 200kg less...
to the test figures, all tests that where made was with two persons and a full tank of gas furthermore the test conditions weren't very good. it was pretty moistly, pavement wasn't completely dry and the test drivers left the ASR turned on during testing.
i´m afraid we´ll have to wait untill next summer or so to see a real test under good conditions, because i already know the figures from “Sport Auto” too, which is the most decent german speaking car mag, and features the kinda unique “Supertest” which is IMO the best of all car tests, and the conditions during their test were also very bad, raining as well and 0 degree centigrades…

…so it`s quite funny to read what the “experts” on the other forums´ve to say about the “dissapointing” AMS test figures, i hope non of you has ever believed one of them… :wink: :!:

i´ll keep on doing some investigations on that topic and tell you then…

http://members.aon.at/st-anger/AMS_1.JPG

11-07-2003, 06:17 PM

And anyway in the next months we will see more tests and other results as always :) and of course even a perfect supercar of the modern days like a CGT can be, can sure have different results from a car to another ;)

BTW st-anger -> http://www.jabbasworld.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1232 photoshop?

st-anger

11-07-2003, 07:04 PM

photoshop?
...definitely, i´ve seen them too on "supercars.net" i think...
the CGT´ll only be available in
black, basaltblack, seal grey, GT silver, guards red and fayence yellow...

btw...i´d definately go for basaltblack with the brown interiour 8)

11-07-2003, 07:15 PM

I'm relieved :D and I agree with you for the color choice :D

scubywrxr

11-08-2003, 10:38 AM

st-anger

11-08-2003, 11:41 AM

Its a bit diasppointing to see these results but they are still stunning relatively speaking! Can we specify no window lifts or airbags please.. at least 100kg lighter and then that will be a quick car!

...i´m not dissapointed by these figures any more, why should i, now that i know all the circumstances, and IMO the figures ARE stunning under these conditions...
and believe me, the car is already a VERY quick one, even with window lifts, airbag, A/C, stereo,....

scubywrxr

11-08-2003, 01:13 PM

yes i see ur point.. some enthusist like their steaks a little lean though :wink:

look at what mclaren achieved.. and it even had gold in the engine bay...