Saleen S7 (0-62mph in 2.9sec)...

[dons5]

well im pretty sure this car doesnt come close to the downforce of an enzo but i could be wrong, im gonna try to figure out and ill let you all know when i do

[dons5]

well i cant get any numbers on pounds of downforce, but i read the same thing about being able to be upside down at 160, that means that at 160 mph it creates, what is it? 2700 pounds or around there, i dont understand how that works because f1 cars make around 3-4 thousand pounds of downforce i think, and trust me they have wayyyyyy more downforce even without ground effects, well saleen just prob got there race saleen s7r or whatever its called and barely changed any of the aero work underneath the car, one article said the saleen was too low to drive on almost an normal road, so i guess saleen doesnt care if there car is too low to even drive, as long as the numbers are better then anyone else there happy

[nthfinity]

its not exactly about having better numbers in a supercar..,. although it cirtainly helps. Steve Saleen wanted a no compromise road car, and people jumped at the opertunity to want a race car before the road car...

the road car had almost an additional year of develpment to go into the road car.

the saleen has hannels through its body to create downforce. each gill is funtional

the enzo was designed by Pininfarina... its beautiful, and produces 1600* lbs of downforce at max, and adjusts to much less to somewhere around 1100* lbs for top speed.

saleen was less concerned about looking like an F1 car.


and let me talk to that aerdynamisist, or thurmodynamisist, as i would tend to think i know something about it as its only directly related to my major... i can assure you, it is quite possible to get those downforce numbers, just not likely with just the outter body shell

[coombsie66]

God damn it, why do u guys have to work in imperial units! Gets me all confused .

From those pictures the road car sits a lot higher (2 inches odd) than the FIA car, now doesnt the downforce from the ground effects increase with a squared relationship with the underbodies proximity to the ground, so even if the FIA had a flat bottom, it would produce more ground effects than the road car!?
These are assumptions on my part, i am not planning on taking saleen to court

A 20 inch penis!? Wats that in metric? I might be impressed then

[nthfinity]

how botht he Enzo, and Saleen produce such vast downforce is by ducting the air through the body in channels. both the enzo, and S7 have them in front of the front tires, wiht ducts leading all the way to the rear.

on top of that, they have ground effect, (which is cirtainly greater on the FIA car) and great airflow around the cockpit.

of course, basic aero states (bernuli's principal) that air traveling a greater distance above then below creates lift. this is why being lower to the ground helps minimze this effect...i could go on and on, but thats enough

[SFDMALEX]

You know what screw it...if you want to believe that this car produces 2750lb of downforce at 160mph then let it be. If your happy stay happy. The reality is that the racer Saleen produces roughly 2200 at way over 160. And the FIAs underbody restrictions wont harm the original underbodys downforce capabilities trust me.

Its common sense. Most the rear end downforce on the racer Saleen comes from the rear wing. The rear end accounts for at least 50% of the entire cars downforce. The road car doesnt even have a wing!

And look at the point coombsie66 made which is correct.

There is simply no way this car produces more downforce then the racer. And the racer cant reach 2700lb at its max speed.

"the FIA rules dictate the shape of the underbody" where did you get that information? The only real rule about underbodys is that the minimum ride hieght should be 40mm.

"All I am saying - is that with the prospect of a bankcrupting lawsuit if you make false claims on your docuemntation - for a car you are only selling to the most wealthy/powerful people in the USA who would be the most likely to bring suite against false claims - you don't lightly make a claim such as this - without it being true... (at least partially ) "

Well this information was provided by ahmedgiyab and I doubt that the source was Saleen the company. Saleen can say what ever they wont to the public and magazines but in the official information they cant lie. But its not like manufacturers dont get proven wrong about their digits all the time.

[coombsie66]

Originally Posted by nthfinity how botht he Enzo, and Saleen produce such vast downforce is by ducting the air through the body in channels. both the enzo, and S7 have them in front of the front tires, wiht ducts leading all the way to the rear. on top of that, they have ground effect, (which is cirtainly greater on the FIA car) and great airflow around the cockpit. of course, basic aero states (bernuli's principal) that air traveling a greater distance above then below creates lift. this is why being lower to the ground helps minimze this effect...i could go on and on, but thats enough

Please go on, i am revising for my 2nd year fluids exams at the moment, and bernoulli's is very much first year.
Isnt it due to the longer distance over the top of the aerofoil which results in a higher stream velocity, which through mass continuity results in a lower pressure above the wing than below it, resulting in lift.

So in order to create effective underbody effects the flow beneath the car would have to be of higher velocity (shorter path than over the body, and smaller cross section through which to pass) than over the body.

Therefore the increase in rideheight of the road car over the FIA car means that it would have a lot less downforce, due to underbody effects than the FIA car.

I dont know the figures for the downforce levels on the FIA car, but going on whats been said, i find it quite difficult to believe what has been stated about the road car's downforce levels.

EDIT: And i dont quite understand how the ducting of air through the car would effect the cars downforce huge amounts, i was always under the impression that these ducts are for brake/engine cooling purposes!?

[blah]

that car has a working penis. thats where the extra 1700 lbs comes from.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by SFDMALEX "the FIA rules dictate the shape of the underbody" where did you get that information? The only real rule about underbodys is that the minimum ride hieght should be 40mm.

Here they are - in all their altered glory (altered to no doubt try give advantage to some production homologated GT "super cars" that have full ground effects underbodies - rumour has it, it was to favour the Ferrari and Lambo entrants... )

Originally Posted by Article 258 3.5 Bodywork 3.5.1) Between the front and at least the rear wheel centre lines all bodywork visible from directly beneath the car, with the exception of wheel arches and exhaust tunnels, must lie on one plane. This plane, called Flat Bottom or Reference Surface, must be a uniform, solid, hard, rigid (no degree of freedom in relation to the body/chassis unit), impervious surface, under all circumstances. The periphery of the surface formed by these parts may be curved upwards with a maximum radius of 25 mm. To help overcome any possible manufacturing problems, a tolerance of +/- 5 mm is permissible across this surface. No sprung part of the car is permitted below the flat bottom. No air may pass above this surface. However, two circular openings of not more than 200 mm in diameter are permitted in the flat bottom for the purpose of cooling the exhaust, as well as minimum openings allowing the use of air jacks. It is permitted to add the following elements : • A flat panel to the front of the flat bottom : On the flat bottom plane, between the front end of the flat bottom and the vertical and transversal plane tangent to the front of the complete front wheels and between the front wheel arches. It may be included in the flat bottom. "Naca" or louvre type air inlets may be made on its surface. The part of the bodywork situated forward of the complete front wheels must be independent of this panel or of the flat bottom if the panel is included in it. To help overcome any possible manufacturing problems, a tolerance of +/- 5 mm is permissible across the surface of this panel. • An inclined, flat panel to the rear of the flat bottom : - between the vertical planes formed by the inside faces of the rear wheels. - between the rear end of the flat bottom and the vertical plane formed by the rearmost vertical panel of the bodywork. This panel may be cut to adapt this extractor. No point of this inclined panel is permitted more than 150 mm above the flat bottom. Vertical fins are allowed, provided that they remain parallel to the longitudinal centre line of the car and that they exert no aerodynamic influence. A minimum opening allowing the use of one air jack is authorised. To help overcome any possible manufacturing problems, a tolerance of +/- 5 mm is permissible across the surface of this panel. For cars from the list of "Super Cars", the bottom part of the car must <-- must is now struck out in the current rules may alternatively comply with article 257-3.5.1.

and...

Originally Posted by Article 257-3.5.1 3.5 Bodywork 3.5.1) The bottom part of the car cannot be modified and must remain identical to that of the original car (including the tunnels if fitted on the original car), with the exception of openings the sole function of which is the cooling of mechanical parts and the total area of which must not exceed 360 cm2.

The FIA pretty much dictates the colour and density of your under-wear and condom diameter as well as fuel and allowable engine components...

[dons5]

Whatever, the fact is every Enzo was sold out before anyone knew what it would look like, showing just how famous and Loved Ferrari is, but u gotta give credit to Saleen, because it scores awesome on the cool factor for sure. but the looks i think are too typical supercar looks you know what i mean?? its still beautiful of course, they could of used a little less holes/gills in the body work, but then again performance comes first

[blah]

People bought the Enzos cuz they needed something to get them past their small penis's. They bought those cars cuase it would be the cool new hotness. Unlike jabba who has the worlds largest british penis EVAR. :has dreams of jabbas penis: :shock:

[dons5]

ummmmm, ok

[blah]

You SHall Fear Jabbas Mighty Penis of Steel! BOW DOWN NOW!

[mit5005]

Originally Posted by dons5 Whatever, the fact is every Enzo was sold out before anyone knew what it would look like, showing just how famous and Loved Ferrari is, but u gotta give credit to Saleen, because it scores awesome on the cool factor for sure. but the looks i think are too typical supercar looks you know what i mean?? its still beautiful of course, they could of used a little less holes/gills in the body work, but then again performance comes first

I don't understand why people think the look is typical. I have never seen a car with as many gills as the S7, and It doesn't look anything like the McLaren F1 (which some people say it does) except for the roof scoop. I don't even think there is another supercar that has a similar appearance to this one. Let's face it, the car is gorgeous.

[dons5]

Well of course it doesnt look identical to the mac, no cars look identical, but if you know anything about car design, or design (art) in general u can see that the mac played a big influence on the cars design, maybe it was just coincedence, but i doubt it, but if you think the saleen is not typical supercars look, then u must think the zonda and enzo are from mars