Go Back   Sports Car Forum - MotorWorld.net > Automotive Brands Forum > Car Chat



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-18-2009, 01:20 PM   #1
fordgt84
Regular User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 523
Default Saab is no more. RIP.

Saab is to be closed down by General Motors, after no new buyer for the troubled Swedish firm could be found. Some 3400 people employed directly by Saab are expected to lose their jobs, and 1100 dealers worldwide will have to find new franchises.
GM’s European president Nick Reilly said no deal could be reached with the sole remaining bidder, Spyker Cars.


“Despite the best efforts of all involved, it has become very clear that the due diligence required to complete this complex transaction could not be executed in a reasonable time. In order to maintain operations, Saab needed a quick resolution,” he said.
Unresolvable issues

In a press conference shortly after the announcement was made, GM Vice President of Corporate Planning John Smith said that “during the course of the negotiations with Spyker, unresolvable issues arose on both sides.” He declined to explain the exact nature of the particular issues, but added that “there comes a time in these kind of discussions when it’s clear that no further progress can be made. At that point, the best course for everyone is just to move on.”
Smith did confirm that the failure of Spyker’s bid wasn’t due to lack of support from either the European Investment Bank or the Swedish government. “The EIB supported our negotiations right until they ended this morning.”
“The Swedish government also worked particularly hard to secure a future for Saab,” Smith continued “and was disappointed with our decision to wind down.” Smith went on to suggest, however, that the Swedish government’s refusal to act as an investor in Saab, but only as a potential guarantor of a loan to a separate bidder, made GM’s task to save Saab considerably more difficult.
Economies of scale

Summing up GM’s ownership of the troubled car-maker, Smith said that there had been “no shortage of effort on behalf of GM, over 20 years, to put Saab on a good footing. It was always difficult to integrate the company into GM,” Smith went on, “and to find the bigger economies of scale that would make its business more profitable.”
“We do take responsibility for what’s happened to Saab over those 20 years,” Smith admitted, “but in the end, there was really no more that we could do."
Spyker's reaction

Spyker boss Victor Muller was disapointed a deal couldn't be reached.
Victor Muller: “We sincerely regret that we are not able to complete this transaction with GM. We worked 24/7 for three weeks, but the complexity of the transaction, in combination with the strict deadline, simply did not allow us to complete the transaction in time. Our thoughts are with the wonderful management and employees of Saab in these challenging times.”
Winding down

The next step for GM is for the Saab business to be wound down, its production and distribution facilities to stop and its employees to be made redundant – a process that’s expected to begin in January and take months.
However, General Motors will not put a timescale on the winding up of the company or say how much it will cost. GM Vice President John Smith said, “there’s no definite plan of how long it might take.”
Smith also said that GM had an idea of how much the closure would cost, but wouldn’t disclose the amount. However, it is likely to be considerably more than the short-term cost of keeping Saab open.
It only has one manufacturing site, at the firm’s Trollhatten base, but the 9-5 and 9-4X were due to be made in Germany and Mexico respectively. Both of these cars would have been factored into the factory’s profit forecasts – pulling them out will affect the future of the plants.
Smith suggested that many of Saab’s assets would be sold off piecemeal. In that vein, GM has already agreed a deal with Chinese firm BAIC for the rights to the current 9-3 and old 9-5. The new 9-5 was due to reach UK showrooms early next year, and alongside the 9-4X, is expected to look like a particularly attractive asset to other car-makers seeking to profit from Saab’s demise. However, Smith said that no plans had been made to sell either of these unreleased models.
GM's troubled year

Pontiac and Saturn suffered similar fates to Saab's in the US when GM failed to find a buyer for the firms. GM's remaining European brands are Opel and Vauxhall.
“We will work closely with the Saab organisation to wind down the business in an orderly and responsible manner,” said Reilly. “This is not a bankruptcy or forced liquidation process.”
"Consequently, we expect Saab to satisfy debts including supplier payments, and to wind down production and the distribution channel in an orderly manner while looking after our customers.”
GM also said it will honour all existing warranties for Saab owners.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...ab-9-5/246077/
fordgt84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2009, 01:44 PM   #2
pitfield
Regular User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Mayfair/Brighton
Posts: 1,262
Default

They haven't made a good car for 20 years, to be expected. GM totally ruined the brand, it's a shame the Americans ever got hold of it. Losing Saturn is no biggie, Pontiac maybe. Rover was no loss either, they hadn't made a good car in 40 years.
__________________
MINI MINI MINI MINI MINI MINI MINI MINI
pitfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2009, 02:17 PM   #3
HeilSvenska
Regular User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The OC™
Posts: 4,881
Default

Originally Posted by pitfield View Post
They haven't made a good car for 20 years, to be expected. GM totally ruined the brand, it's a shame the Americans ever got hold of it. Losing Saturn is no biggie, Pontiac maybe. Rover was no loss either, they hadn't made a good car in 40 years.
I'm afraid Saab is much like Jaguar. It doesn't matter who owns it, American, European, Asian, it's going to be screwed. And it won't matter if they make "decent" cars. Unless they make something that's going to blow away the competition, they're still ruined. And seeing how those companies always seem to be on the brink of bankruptcy, no one's really going to pour money into them. If they do, there's never a guarantee. Just look at BMW with Rover and Land Rover. They really did build good cars under BMW, but it was never enough. Now it's Tata's turn with Jaguar. It's going to crash and burn.
__________________
HeilSvenska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2009, 03:16 PM   #4
nthfinity
Regular User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Detroit
Posts: 9,929
Default

The Saabaru and Saablazer didn't help the brand at all
__________________
www.nthimage.com
Car photography website
nthfinity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2009, 12:06 AM   #5
loliea
Regular User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Prius land ... :(=
Posts: 393
Default

Can Spyker buy just the name Saab?
__________________

loliea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2009, 02:13 AM   #6
Mattk
Regular User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 6,610
Default

I always liked Saabs although I have never drive one personally. You could get objectively superior vehicles, but it had some innate coolness about it, unlike an Astra Diesel, for instance (which I have driven).
__________________
One stumble does not constitute total failure;
One victory does not constitute total success.
Mattk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2009, 11:20 AM   #7
pitfield
Regular User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Mayfair/Brighton
Posts: 1,262
Default

Originally Posted by HeilSvenska View Post
I'm afraid Saab is much like Jaguar. It doesn't matter who owns it, American, European, Asian, it's going to be screwed. And it won't matter if they make "decent" cars. Unless they make something that's going to blow away the competition, they're still ruined. And seeing how those companies always seem to be on the brink of bankruptcy, no one's really going to pour money into them. If they do, there's never a guarantee. Just look at BMW with Rover and Land Rover. They really did build good cars under BMW, but it was never enough. Now it's Tata's turn with Jaguar. It's going to crash and burn.
It's true that Jaguar aren't in the best condition financially but you can hardly compare JLR to SAAB. How many new vehicles has JLR brought out in the last 5 years? JLR will survive.
__________________
MINI MINI MINI MINI MINI MINI MINI MINI
pitfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2009, 02:45 PM   #8
black_diamond
Regular User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 49
Default

What ever happened with the Koenigsegg deal was it GM that didn't want it or Koenigsegg?

They would be better off letting GM kill the brand then Koenigsegg come in and buy the rights to the brand name and setup their own company.
__________________
You Know Who I Am. We've met before.
black_diamond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2009, 08:17 PM   #9
RC45
Regular User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,413
Default

Originally Posted by pitfield View Post
They haven't made a good car for 20 years, to be expected. GM totally ruined the brand, it's a shame the Americans ever got hold of it. Losing Saturn is no biggie, Pontiac maybe. Rover was no loss either, they hadn't made a good car in 40 years.
You ignorant hatred for all thing US is so telling sometimes...

A little history lesson is in order here. GM SAVED SAAB from a deserved death 20 years ago.

G.M. to Buy Half of Saab Car Unit

By PAUL C. JUDGE, Special to The New York Times

Published: December 16, 1989

DETROIT, Dec. 15— The General Motors Corporation surprised the auto industry today by announcing it would buy half of Saab-Scania A.B.'s troubled car-making operations. The move enlarges G.M.'s European presence and plugs a hole in the company's product line, which needs models that can compete with imports like BMW and Mercedes-Benz.
G.M. attributes Saab's trouble primarily to its small size and figures it can bring economies of scale to the Swedish company, benefiting both partners. G.M. will pay $500 million for 50 percent of a new company, Saab Automobile A.B., that comprises Saab's auto making assets.
Saab has been looking for a partner for several months as its sales and profits have dwindled, and even some company insiders were betting on Fiat S.p.A. Volvo A.B. and the Ford Motor Company also made offers for Saab, but it rejected those three, reportedly because it was unwilling to give up a controlling interest.
Instead Saab approached G.M., which only six weeks ago lost out to Ford in a bid for Jaguar P.L.C.
Saab-Scania will keep its profitable truck making, aircraft and military operations. The joint venture requires approval by the Swedish and United States Governments, and is expected to be completed by mid-January, G.M. officials said.
In addition to its equity investment, G.M. is committing $100 million to the company for use as operating capital to cover salaries, materials and equipment purchases for Saab, a G.M. spokesman said. Saab's sagging car business lost $188 million in the first eight months of this year.
The cars built by the new company will be sold under the Saab name through Saab's independent dealer network both in the United States and abroad, an attempt to preserve the prestige and customer base that Saab has built up, analysts say.
''It's less expensive for a car company to buy a luxury division than it is to make one from scratch, mainly because of the high costs of setting up distributors,'' said Scott Merlis, an auto industry analyst with Morgan Stanley & Company. Advantages for G.M. Debated
Analysts said the financial advantages of the deal were less compelling than the improved position it provided for G.M. in Europe.
''G.M. will lose money on this in the first year, but the numbers are small enough that it's not critical,'' said Harvey Heinbach, an analyst with Merrill Lynch.
But some analysts questioned the wisdom of the deal.
''I don't see what G.M. has gained,'' said Maryann N. Keller, an analyst with Furman, Selz, Mager, Dietz & Birney. ''The Opel product line in Europe is already very strong, with models that aren't all that different from the cars that Saab sells.''
Unlike Jaguar, which can bring out new models in a year or two with the help of Ford's investment, ''Saab has nothing in the pipeline,'' Ms. Keller said. Manufacturing costs in Sweden are among the highest in Europe, she noted.
''G.M. will probably make Saab profitable in a year or two if the currency situation is favorable, if component costs are saved and if costs at Saab's plants are cut,'' Mr. Merlis said. Saab's View
''Our problem has been that our volume is too small,'' said Kai Hammerich, an executive vice president with Saab-Scania in Sweden. The company's market share in Europe is less than 1 percent. G.M. already has an 11.4 percent share through its Opel and Vauxhall subsidiaries.
''With a strong partner, we can get the resources to expand our business,'' Mr. Hammerich said, adding that Saab expected to increase production and broaden its product line.
The deal does provide G.M. with an option to make cars at Saab's three plants. In North America G.M. has too much car-making capacity, but in Europe, the only place it has earned profits on car-making operations this year, G.M. believes it could use more. Saab's Potential Output
G.M. officials estimate that the three Saab plants - two in Sweden, one in Finland - could turn out between 180,000 and 200,000 cars a year - about as much as a single American plant. But the Saab factories have been running at half to three-quarters capacity since the mid-1980's, because of slumping sales.
With the company's future uncertain, Saab's sales in the United States have fallen 16 percent so far this year from a year earlier.
G.M. also plans to acquire a large stake in Saab's automotive electronics business, which will be spun off into a separate company, Saab-Scania Automotive Electronics A.B. Saab will retain majority ownership of the electronics business, which is of interest to G.M. primarily because it makes a new direct ignition device that improves cold starting and prolongs spark-plug life.
Photo of a new Saab-Scania automotive plant in Malmo, Sweden. (AP)
RC45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2009, 10:12 PM   #10
pitfield
Regular User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Mayfair/Brighton
Posts: 1,262
Default

Propaganda is nothing new in the U.S. Also, show me any Saturn ever built that is any good. Then do the same with Pontiac. Then try to explain which of the above actually happened and show how SAAB's range expanded and improved during their ownership.
__________________
MINI MINI MINI MINI MINI MINI MINI MINI
pitfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2009, 11:29 PM   #11
RC45
Regular User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,413
Default

Originally Posted by pitfield View Post
Propaganda is nothing new in the U.S. Also, show me any Saturn ever built that is any good. Then do the same with Pontiac. Then try to explain which of the above actually happened and show how SAAB's range expanded and improved during their ownership.
Your trolling is getting really tiring... refute my contention that SAAB was a failing company in 1989 at the time of the purchase... or just keep quiet.

SAAB was on the brink of failure and collapse and was SHOPPING for a saviour.

It must be terrible to always have your flawed and incorrect and biased views smashed to pieces by facts - time after time.
RC45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2009, 02:30 AM   #12
Mattk
Regular User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 6,610
Default

GM saved Saab, briefly. I don't think you can say it improved its competitiveness greatly, although that is due to a variety of factors not necessarily within GM's control.
__________________
One stumble does not constitute total failure;
One victory does not constitute total success.
Mattk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2009, 06:03 AM   #13
RC45
Regular User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,413
Default

Originally Posted by Mattk View Post
GM saved Saab, briefly. I don't think you can say it improved its competitiveness greatly, although that is due to a variety of factors not necessarily within GM's control.
Saved is saved.

SAAB was headed into the crapper - they where trying to cast off their car division in the 1980's.
RC45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2009, 03:16 PM   #14
loliea
Regular User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Prius land ... :(=
Posts: 393
Default

Note dead yet... again ...
Although I don't think Spyker has what it takes to revive SAAB for good. They must be thinking of buying it for cheap and sell it back it 3 years when the economy will be better.

Carscoop - Sunday, December 20, 2009
In what could be a final attempt to save SAAB from closing down, tiny Dutch sports car maker Spyker submitted a new 11-point proposal to buy the Swedish brand from General Motors on Sunday. The Dutch company said that its new proposal addresses all the issues that resulted to the collapse of the talks earlier this week. However, Spyker noted that the renewed offer is valid until 5pm (Eastern Standard Time) on Monday December 21, 2009.
GM issued today an official statement saying that, following Friday's announcement on the closure of SAAB, it "received inquiries from several parties" and it will evaluate each and every one without disclosing any more details on the matter.

Spyker CEO Victor R. Muller said that he believes the company's new offer will be successful.

"We are very confident that our renewed offer will remove the impasse that was standing in the way of an agreement on Friday, and this would still allow us to conclude the deal prior to the expiry of the deadline originally set by GM of December 31st", said Muller in a statement.

"Despite our collective eleventh hour set-back, we are returning to the table with a renewed offer, that addresses every known issue brought to light during the initial negotiations and that has the full backing of the Saab Management. The new offer eliminates the need for an EIB loan approval prior to year end, for example, which will allow the deal to be concluded within GM's deadline."

"Our efforts are based on our passion for saving an iconic brand that we would be honoured to shepherd, and the jobs and livelihoods of thousands of loyal Saab employees, suppliers and dealers around the world. Some 1,500,000 Saabs are on the road today and their proud owners would no doubt welcome the survival of this phenomenal brand", he added.

Spyker, which sold somewhere around 40 cars last year and recently decided to lay off a third of its 135-strong workforce in The Netherlands and move production to the UK, is said to be backed by Russian banker Vladimir Antonov and his Convers Group, which has a 30 percent stake in the Dutch company.

The sports car maker said that the deal would "add a lot of value to both parties", with Spyker benefiting from SAAB's global distribution network of 1100 dealers, its facilities and R&D capabilities, and the Swedes from financial backing and what the Dutch company describes as "an entrepreneurial leadership team sensitive to the uniqueness, heritage and individuality of the Saab brand."

"Our company motto is nulla tenaci invia est via - for the tenacious no road is impassable," said Spyker's boss. "And we intend to remain true to that throughout these negotiations as we bid to secure Saab's future and revive the company," Muller concluded.
__________________

loliea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2009, 05:26 PM   #15
RC45
Regular User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,413
Default

Sounds as if they are barely still breathing...

Spyker, which sold somewhere around 40 cars last year and recently decided to lay off a third of its 135-strong workforce in The Netherlands and move production to the UK, is said to be backed by Russian banker Vladimir Antonov and his Convers Group, which has a 30 percent stake in the Dutch company.
RC45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump