600hp CTS Super V confirmed? Bye-bye M5/E55/RS6... ;)

[LotusGT1]

Originally Posted by amanthapar RC45..... WHAT ME AND LOTUS ARE TRYING TO SAY THAT THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER FACTORS INVOLVED.... SURE IF A CAR LAPS FASTER THE MAIN REASON COULD BE OR COULD NOT BE THE HANDLING ASPECT... COMMON SENSE DUDE ... OR R U AMERICAN NOT TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE U GUYS HAVE NO IDEA ON CORNERING SINCE U GUYS ONLY LIKE RACE IN A STARIGHT LINE ( AND THE ONLY CAR THAT CAN DO THAT IS THE CTS-V WHICH CAN CORNER) BUT M5 IS STILL NUMBER 1

I hate it when you try to prove my point.

You're full of shit, please shut up.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by toronto RC45, LotusGT1 has a good point, if you look at the lap times of Nurburgring of a Lotus Exige would they be greater or less than a CTS-V? If the CTS-V laps it quicker then the Lotus Exige is a better handling car? no, the CTS-V makes up for it poor handling (compaired to a Lotus Exige) with it extra power. 8,42 = 142 km/h - Lotus Exige 8,20 = 150 km/h - BMW M5 (both from http://www.nordschleife.no ) so since the M5 has a faster time, it handles better then the Exige right RC45? cause i thought the Exige handles "like a house fly"

Thats the entire point you two brain dead imbeciles.

Go-kart handeling with no power is stupid... car is NOT a complete package.

Super power with bad handling is NOT a complete package.

THAT is what a car like the Carrera GT and Enzo and in it's day the Macca were COMPETE packages.

The can go fast, stop and turn.

Hence, the term "bast car in the world" etc etc blah blah.

Let's leave the CTS-V out of this - you two stupid cocksuckers are making some of the DUMBEST claims ever posted on the Net.

The reason a good time at the 'Ring is placed so high on the priority list of manufacturers is because it is a way to in a summary fashion observe the behaviours of the entire car package in relation to a REAL WORLD driving situation.

Not a billiard table smooth Formula 1 race track where the "superior" handling of a Lotus Exige can be exploited - but a REAL WORLD type road that has shown on video that even a Z51 Corvette C5 coupe and leave a race prepped Lotus Exige in the DUST around the 'Ring.

What does all this mean?

That is the CONTEXT of this discussion you dimwits - the cars under the microscope have a certain performance ability - and that this ability in relation to REAL WORLD applications (which is the only one 99% of the drivers/readers on this forum will be daily exposed to) the BETTER handling/powered etc car's are the ones with the...

wait for i...

FASTEST times around the Nurburgring.

You splitting hairs that the go-kart chassis handling of this or that car in a parking lot or super-smooth F1 race track is the ultimate representation of that chassis ability to perform in the REAL WORLD is such a juvenile debate point...

This is why I tire of these stupid debates...because you motherfuckers get all distracted by some little assenine point and hone in on that factor to the exclusion of all else.

Because of all the variables (which I am well aware and educated about - for christs sake, I was reading. watching and following motor sport since before some of you clowns were born.. :roll: ) there is needed some common denominator against which all these cars need to be compared.

This common denominator has over the decades become the Nordschleiffe - and with that in mind, the BEST cars are the ones that can perform the best there.

No one forced Lotus to leave the Exige 250hp short - that was their own design flaw.

What a joke some people are.

The sad part is that they are actually let loose on society and exposed to the public on a daily basis.

And these fuckers can not even see the wood for the trees... :roll:

BTW, you need to come up with some better insult that "becuse I drive a Z06 I think what ever" - what I drive has nothing to do with the facts being presented. I have no doubt if I drove a Mini minor or an Enzo you would STILL maintian your incorrect point of view.

You are wrong.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by amanthapar RC45..... WHAT ME AND LOTUS ARE TRYING TO SAY THAT THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER FACTORS INVOLVED.... SURE IF A CAR LAPS FASTER THE MAIN REASON COULD BE OR COULD NOT BE THE HANDLING ASPECT... COMMON SENSE DUDE ... OR R U AMERICAN NOT TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE U GUYS HAVE NO IDEA ON CORNERING SINCE U GUYS ONLY LIKE RACE IN A STARIGHT LINE ( AND THE ONLY CAR THAT CAN DO THAT IS THE CTS-V WHICH CAN CORNER) BUT M5 IS STILL NUMBER 1

Hey fuckpig - I am American by residence but I grew up driving and following motor-sport in South Africa.

I was driving Alpine switchbacks in cars and on bikes since before you were born.

I am well aware of what it takes to throw a car through a series of hairpins that are cliff face to the left and drop off to the right and what you can expect your car to do or not to do in order for you not to die.

It may surprise you that some of us are more than just magazine readers... :roll:

[Toronto]

Originally Posted by RC45 This yahoo is saying that if car A. laps the Nurburgring faster than car B. then we can NOT conclude car A handles better than car B... So by your logic then, the Porsche Carrera GT has worse handling than a bus.. after all just because the GT laps the 'Ring faster than a bus, does not mean it handles better...

all i said was that the m5 can still have better handling then the CTS-V even with a slower lap time, i never said anything about a complete package, your point you are trying to prove that the CTS-V has better handling then and m5 has it flaws, and i have just pointed them out,

and even with a faster lap time, i wouldn't buy a CTS-V because of the poor build quality and the plastic feel you get from the car when you are in it. (well you get that feel from the CTS, i don't think the CTS-V can be any better)

[amanthapar]

lotus gt1..
go get laid dude u need some help

[LotusGT1]

Originally Posted by RC45 Thats the entire point you two brain dead imbeciles. Go-kart handeling with no power is stupid... car is NOT a complete package. Super power with bad handling is NOT a complete package. THAT is what a car like the Carrera GT and Enzo and in it's day the Macca were COMPETE packages. The can go fast, stop and turn. Hence, the term "bast car in the world" etc etc blah blah. Let's leave the CTS-V out of this - you two stupid cocksuckers are making some of the DUMBEST claims ever posted on the Net. The reason a good time at the 'Ring is placed so high on the priority list of manufacturers is because it is a way to in a summary fashion observe the behaviours of the entire car package in relation to a REAL WORLD driving situation. Not a billiard table smooth Formula 1 race track where the "superior" handling of a Lotus Exige can be exploited - but a REAL WORLD type road that has shown on video that even a Z51 Corvette C5 coupe and leave a race prepped Lotus Exige in the DUST around the 'Ring. What does all this mean? That is the CONTEXT of this discussion you dimwits - the cars under the microscope have a certain performance ability - and that this ability in relation to REAL WORLD applications (which is the only one 99% of the drivers/readers on this forum will be daily exposed to) the BETTER handling/powered etc car's are the ones with the... wait for i... FASTEST times around the Nurburgring. You splitting hairs that the go-kart chassis handling of this or that car in a parking lot or super-smooth F1 race track is the ultimate representation of that chassis ability to perform in the REAL WORLD is such a juvenile debate point... This is why I tire of these stupid debates...because you motherfuckers get all distracted by some little assenine point and hone in on that factor to the exclusion of all else. Because of all the variables (which I am well aware and educated about - for christs sake, I was reading. watching and following motor sport since before some of you clowns were born.. :roll: ) there is needed some common denominator against which all these cars need to be compared. This common denominator has over the decades become the Nordschleiffe - and with that in mind, the BEST cars are the ones that can perform the best there. No one forced Lotus to leave the Exige 250hp short - that was their own design flaw. What a joke some people are. The sad part is that they are actually let loose on society and exposed to the public on a daily basis. And these fuckers can not even see the wood for the trees... :roll: BTW, you need to come up with some better insult that "becuse I drive a Z06 I think what ever" - what I drive has nothing to do with the facts being presented. I have no doubt if I drove a Mini minor or an Enzo you would STILL maintian your incorrect point of view. You are wrong.

That's for this lenghty piece of jibberish. You can discuss all night long for all I care, but don't try to twist your words into something that you didn't say in the first place.

You can bullshit all you want, but the fastest lapping cars don't have the best handling. LOL, in real world that applies differently you nimbwit.
Apart from pedal mashing at stoplight you really can't take advantage of your handling on public roads. So, your initial point was worthless anyway.

Please don't comment on my insulting, you're the one that keeps coming bacxk and back with the shit every time. No experience blah blah, I know it all blah blah....Just admit for once that you were wrong asshole.

BTW, If you saw the inboard video of the C5 and the Exige you would see the Exige was so much faster in the corners the C5-driver blocked them a the Exige times. Both cars lap the 'Ring in about the same time.

I'm done with you and this thread.

[LotusGT1]

Originally Posted by amanthapar lotus gt1.. go get laid dude u need some help

Go kill yourself or something, Your stupidity is unmatched by any around here...LOL@americans can't corner. Anyother figure of speech right :roll:

[RC45]

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 Originally Posted by RC45 Thats the entire point you two brain dead imbeciles. Go-kart handeling with no power is stupid... car is NOT a complete package. Super power with bad handling is NOT a complete package. THAT is what a car like the Carrera GT and Enzo and in it's day the Macca were COMPETE packages. The can go fast, stop and turn. Hence, the term "bast car in the world" etc etc blah blah. Let's leave the CTS-V out of this - you two stupid cocksuckers are making some of the DUMBEST claims ever posted on the Net. The reason a good time at the 'Ring is placed so high on the priority list of manufacturers is because it is a way to in a summary fashion observe the behaviours of the entire car package in relation to a REAL WORLD driving situation. Not a billiard table smooth Formula 1 race track where the "superior" handling of a Lotus Exige can be exploited - but a REAL WORLD type road that has shown on video that even a Z51 Corvette C5 coupe and leave a race prepped Lotus Exige in the DUST around the 'Ring. What does all this mean? That is the CONTEXT of this discussion you dimwits - the cars under the microscope have a certain performance ability - and that this ability in relation to REAL WORLD applications (which is the only one 99% of the drivers/readers on this forum will be daily exposed to) the BETTER handling/powered etc car's are the ones with the... wait for i... FASTEST times around the Nurburgring. You splitting hairs that the go-kart chassis handling of this or that car in a parking lot or super-smooth F1 race track is the ultimate representation of that chassis ability to perform in the REAL WORLD is such a juvenile debate point... This is why I tire of these stupid debates...because you motherfuckers get all distracted by some little assenine point and hone in on that factor to the exclusion of all else. Because of all the variables (which I am well aware and educated about - for christs sake, I was reading. watching and following motor sport since before some of you clowns were born.. :roll: ) there is needed some common denominator against which all these cars need to be compared. This common denominator has over the decades become the Nordschleiffe - and with that in mind, the BEST cars are the ones that can perform the best there. No one forced Lotus to leave the Exige 250hp short - that was their own design flaw. What a joke some people are. The sad part is that they are actually let loose on society and exposed to the public on a daily basis. And these fuckers can not even see the wood for the trees... :roll: BTW, you need to come up with some better insult that "becuse I drive a Z06 I think what ever" - what I drive has nothing to do with the facts being presented. I have no doubt if I drove a Mini minor or an Enzo you would STILL maintian your incorrect point of view. You are wrong. That's for this lenghty piece of jibberish. You can discuss all night long for all I care, but don't try to twist your words into something that you didn't say in the first place. You can bullshit all you want, but the fastest lapping cars don't have the best handling. LOL, in real world that applies differently you nimbwit. Apart from pedal mashing at stoplight you really can't take advantage of your handling on public roads. So, your initial point was worthless anyway. Please don't comment on my insulting, you're the one that keeps coming bacxk and back with the shit every time. No experience blah blah, I know it all blah blah....Just admit for once that you were wrong asshole. BTW, If you saw the inboard video of the C5 and the Exige you would see the Exige was so much faster in the corners the C5-driver blocked them a the Exige times. Both cars lap the 'Ring in about the same time. I'm done with you and this thread.

Couple things come to mind...

You are an idiot.

I am not wrong.

The Exige vs C5 was not even close - the C5 left the Exige by a long way. Both cars did not lap in about the same time. But that's not what the thread was about.

The CTS-V is a better handling car than the M3 and the M5.

You STILL haven't proven that this statement is incorrect - even after all these pages.

I am imagining I am one of the few people on this board that has driven the CTS-V and the M3 and and the M5.

Now I may not have taken the cars on a "car comparison" test - but I at least have something - I have driven them.

Combine that with the info out there and you can see how that even though it is just an opinion of mine - my point of view is backed by personal experience with the cars in question...

What is YOUR point of view backed with ?

So - in closing, I will maintain the CTS-V is a better handler than the current M3 and the current M5.

Period.

Come back when you have driven all 3 jackass.

[LotusGT1]

Originally Posted by RC45 Couple things come to mind... You are an idiot. I am not wrong. The Exige vs C5 was not even close - the C5 left the Exige by a long way. Both cars did not lap in about the same time. But that's not what the thread was about. The CTS-V is a better handling car than the M3 and the M5. You STILL haven't proven that this statement is incorrect - even after all these pages. I am imagining I am one of the few people on this board that has driven the CTS-V and the M3 and and the M5. Now I may not have taken the cars on a "car comparison" test - but I at least have something - I have driven them. Combine that with the info out there and you can see how that even though it is just an opinion of mine - my point of view is backed by personal experience with the cars in question... What is YOUR point of view backed with ? So - in closing, I will maintain the CTS-V is a better handler than the current M3 and the current M5. Period. Come back when you have driven all 3 jackass.

LOL, I see you now start like a 3-year old. I'm right, you're wrong. Too bad you have zero factual backup for that. So let me rephrase again so you peabrain can understand....

Sorry, I don't see your three laps around the parking lot as any indication of which car is the better handler. Oh wait, on the highway you really did some handling testing right ? Give me a fucking break...

In fact, I highly doubt the CTS-V can outhandle the M3. Looking at the weight advantage of the M3, and the general consensus that it's the best handling car in its class, combined with the fact that the M3 about as fast as the CTS-V, with 60-70 hp down, it's fair to assume the M3 will outhandle the CTS-V, as stated by numerous sources. Looking at the claims that are made by the authors of numerous magazines, I'll take that word over the word of a moron like you. I don't have anything to prove to you, and you weren't claiming that. You did nothing to prove that the CTS-V is in fact a better handler than the M3 or M5.

So, while you was wrong about handling and laptimes, now you're making claims based on virtually nothing, and that while you have your bais for american cars. Fucking great.

But now shut up....you make yourself look stupid.

PS, check the video, from minute 8 till 10 the Vette is blocking the Elise, only to walk away at the last straights. An Exige runs around 8.40-45 on the Ring, so does a plain jane Corvette...

[RC45]

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 Originally Posted by RC45 Couple things come to mind... You are an idiot. I am not wrong. The Exige vs C5 was not even close - the C5 left the Exige by a long way. Both cars did not lap in about the same time. But that's not what the thread was about. The CTS-V is a better handling car than the M3 and the M5. You STILL haven't proven that this statement is incorrect - even after all these pages. I am imagining I am one of the few people on this board that has driven the CTS-V and the M3 and and the M5. Now I may not have taken the cars on a "car comparison" test - but I at least have something - I have driven them. Combine that with the info out there and you can see how that even though it is just an opinion of mine - my point of view is backed by personal experience with the cars in question... What is YOUR point of view backed with ? So - in closing, I will maintain the CTS-V is a better handler than the current M3 and the current M5. Period. Come back when you have driven all 3 jackass. LOL, I see you now start like a 3-year old. I'm right, you're wrong. Too bad you have zero factual backup for that. So let me rephrase again so you peabrain can understand.... Sorry, I don't see your three laps around the parking lot as any indication of which car is the better handler. Oh wait, on the highway you really did some handling testing right ? Give me a fucking break... In fact, I highly doubt the CTS-V can outhandle the M3. Looking at the weight advantage of the M3, and the general consensus that it's the best handling car in its class, combined with the fact that the M3 about as fast as the CTS-V, with 60-70 hp down, it's fair to assume the M3 will outhandle the CTS-V, as stated by numerous sources. Looking at the claims that are made by the authors of numerous magazines, I'll take that word over the word of a moron like you. I don't have anything to prove to you, and you weren't claiming that. You did nothing to prove that the CTS-V is in fact a better handler than the M3 or M5. So, while you was wrong about handling and laptimes, now you're making claims based on virtually nothing, and that while you have your bais for american cars. Fucking great. But now shut up....you make yourself look stupid. PS, check the video, from minute 8 till 10 the Vette is blocking the Elise, only to walk away at the last straights. An Exige runs around 8.40-45 on the Ring, so does a plain jane Corvette...

Wow - talk about clueless.

I am TELLING you that from behind the wheel I felt the CTS-V was better than the M3 and M5. Even if my perception is flawed - at least I am basing my opinion on more than "bench racing".

What is you opinion of the 3 cars based on again?

And with regard to "my 3 laps around the parking lot" - sure - what ever you choose to believe.

Not wanting to repeat myself - when have you driven all 3 of the cars in quesiton?

Oh - wait - I don't think you have.

p.s. Look at that video again - The Exige was not being blocked - it could not pass the Corvette. That video has been around since Racing flix day 1 and been viewed many, many. many times.

The Exige is 200hp down on power - whose fault is that? Oh wait I know why - it's the hp/l that counts.. :roll:

[LotusGT1]

Originally Posted by RC45 Wow - talk about clueless. I am TELLING you that from behind the wheel I felt the CTS-V was better than the M3 and M5. Even if my perception is flawed - at least I am basing my opinion on more than "bench racing". What is you opinion of the 3 cars based on again? And with regard to "my 3 laps around the parking lot" - sure - what ever you choose to believe. Not wanting to repeat myself - when have you driven all 3 of the cars in quesiton? Oh - wait - I don't think you have. p.s. Look at that video again - The Exige was not being blocked - it could not pass the Corvette. That video has been around since Racing flix day 1 and been viewed many, many. many times. The Exige is 200hp down on power - whose fault is that? Oh wait I know why - it's the hp/l that counts.. :roll:

Oh please, the day your opinion is the reference is the day I'll eat my shoes. Ergo, it isn't going to happen.

Please, after the countless times you called the M5's, E55's and RS6's overpriced and a whatever more, you seriously think your opinion holds any value to me ? Oh, and no 3 laps around the parking lot ? Please enlighten me what test program you persued to find out which car has the best handling. Of course, the "feel", what the fuck that might be...

My opinion is based on objective observations made by drivers who actually test cars for their living. I'd rather do that than base it on somebody who can't keep handling and laptimes in the right perspective...
Have you ever been to the 'Ring ?

And about me not having driven the cars, I'm not planning to fly over a 1000 miles to drive a CTS-V. The regular CTS I drove sucked enough in the departments I care about.

P.S. If your can't see that before the last straight the C5 has been blocking the Exige numerous times your opinion is more flawed than I imagined before.

Lotus chose to make the Exige light and nimble, and not an heavy sportscar packed with a lot of power. Ah wait, according to you the Corvette outhandles the Exige because it laps the 'Ring better. :roll:

LOL, you're a joke. A bad one though....

[RC45]

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 Oh please, the day your opinion is the reference is the day I'll eat my shoes. Ergo, it isn't going to happen. Please, after the countless times you called the M5's, E55's and RS6's overpriced and a whatever more, you seriously think your opinion holds any value to me ? Oh, and no 3 laps around the parking lot ? Please enlighten me what test program you persued to find out which car has the best handling. Of course, the "feel", what the fuck that might be... My opinion is based on objective observations made by drivers who actually test cars for their living. I'd rather do that than base it on somebody who can't keep handling and laptimes in the right perspective... Have you ever been to the 'Ring ? And about me not having driven the cars, I'm not planning to fly over a 1000 miles to drive a CTS-V. The regular CTS I drove sucked enough in the departments I care about. P.S. If your can't see that before the last straight the C5 has been blocking the Exige numerous times your opinion is more flawed than I imagined before. Lotus chose to make the Exige light and nimble, and not an heavy sportscar packed with a lot of power. Ah wait, according to you the Corvette outhandles the Exige because it laps the 'Ring better. :roll: LOL, you're a joke. A bad one though....

Lotus left 200hp on the table - the car could still be light and nimb;le with 200 more hp.

The facts show the Exige is outclassed by the 'Ring and any car that laps the ring in a quicker time.

The truth is except for a billard smooth F1 track and parking lote chicanes - the Exige is waste of gas... 200hp more, and it would be a great car - in the mean time it is simply a "little car".

I am once again telling you - the M5 is overpriced for what it is - and wait - the very magazine article you posted saiud exactly the same thing.

The M5 was NOT worth the extra $23,000 considering how good the CTS-V is.

And isn't that brilliant of you to base your opinion of the CTS-V on your impressions of the CTS.

I guess then I should base my opinions of the M5 on a 518.

Looks like you are tripping yourself up.

Let's summerize - the M5. E55. RS6 and what ever else Europe can produce are not worth the inflated price they ask - why not?

Because for less money you can have the same or better performance.

But wait - you are going to come back with "there is more to cars than performance" and talk about fit and finish and luxury etc etc.... then buy the base model - just the same luxury lower price.

But now you will say "I want both, luxury and performance" - then you will have to over-pay to get an M5. E55 or RS6... or get everything AND a lower price and drive off in the CTS-V.

Now put that into the perspective of the Super CTS-V with 600hp - and perhaps you will realize - that just because you SAY the CTS-V and derivatives are not good cars that outhandle and outperform YOUR favourites - does not make it so.

Seems to me you missed the entire point from the get go.

oh... and you might want to eat a little more fibre...

[LotusGT1]

Originally Posted by RC45 Lotus left 200hp on the table - the car could still be light and nimb;le with 200 more hp. The facts show the Exige is outclassed by the 'Ring and any car that laps the ring in a quicker time. The truth is except for a billard smooth F1 track and parking lote chicanes - the Exige is waste of gas... 200hp more, and it would be a great car - in the mean time it is simply a "little car". I am once again telling you - the M5 is overpriced for what it is - and wait - the very magazine article you posted saiud exactly the same thing. The M5 was NOT worth the extra $23,000 considering how good the CTS-V is. And isn't that brilliant of you to base your opinion of the CTS-V on your impressions of the CTS. I guess then I should base my opinions of the M5 on a 518. Looks like you are tripping yourself up. Let's summerize - the M5. E55. RS6 and what ever else Europe can produce are not worth the inflated price they ask - why not? Because for less money you can have the same or better performance. But wait - you are going to come back with "there is more to cars than performance" and talk about fit and finish and luxury etc etc.... then buy the base model - just the same luxury lower price. But now you will say "I want both, luxury and performance" - then you will have to over-pay to get an M5. E55 or RS6... or get everything AND a lower price and drive off in the CTS-V. Now put that into the perspective of the Super CTS-V with 600hp - and perhaps you will realize - that just because you SAY the CTS-V and derivatives are not good cars that outhandle and outperform YOUR favourites - does not make it so. Seems to me you missed the entire point from the get go. oh... and you might want to eat a little more fibre...

Blah,

Lotus didn't left 200 Hp on the table, with 200 Hp more that car would be instant suicide. Besides, they can't extract 200 hp out of such a little engine...You don't grasp the concept of cars like the Exige and the Elise obviously...

Again, put the CTS and a 5-series next to each other and tell me both cars are on par when you look at finish, luxury and "feel". They're not. The CTS-V might be a marvellous performer (tell me where I disputed that) but it can't match the M5 in other departments. If you prefer that or not is fully subjective.

Besides the fact the CTS-V is domestic and therefore has a price advantage in the US, I don't see how the E55/M5/RS6 are overpriced.

For the price of your Z06 I can have a car that will make toast of yours in every aspect, and keeping $10k in my pocket. Obviously it's second hand, or custom built. So there will always be faster alternatives. Does that make them betteroverall ?

Point is that the price of the Bmw/Audi/Mercedes doesn't come from nowhere. If you can't justify that price, I frankly give rats ass. That's called personal preference....

P.S. I never said the M3 and the M5 would definitively outhandle the CTS-V, don't put words in my mouth...

P.S. 2, I need fibre ?

[RC45]

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 P.S. I never said the M3 and the M5 would definitively outhandle the CTS-V, don't put words in my mouth...

Then what the fuck did you say? In 15 words or less please.

[LotusGT1]

Laptimes don't tell which car is the best handler, as you have claimed.
The CTS-V is not per se the best handler, as you have claimed.
The European market/manufacturers won't be afraid of this car, because of several reasons as I've pointed out.

Well done. I'd apply for english class tomorrow if I were you....

Oh, and fuck 15 words