motor

RC45 · 11-04-2003, 09:59 AM

I'll start off:

Can we consider the current Z06 and SVT Cobra as "muscle cars"? And would the new GTO fit into this category? What about the Caddy CTS-V?

Is this a new "muscle era" dawning?

Or could you only use the term "muscle car" in reference to cars 30 years or older?

(for the record I hate domestic US cars (including my Z06) for their lack of build quality, fit and finish and zero after sales service - but don't want to consider these facts in this debate)

-Paul

Jabba · 11-04-2003, 10:15 AM

Funny enough the original description I had for this forum was "An area dedicated to American Muscle Cars"

Then I thought that didn't seem quite right for such cars as the Dodge Viper and Saleen S7.....

Anyway if you want the forum name changed to something else that you can all agree on I will be happy to do it

RC45 · 11-04-2003, 10:30 AM

I guess there is that misconception that "muscle cars" are 1/4 mile kings (

I guess that technically means they are also Drag Queens...

LOL ) but are no good around the bends...

And if you will include the Viper, Z06, S7, M900, Cobra R, the Panoz' etc you have a different story.

Perhaps there should be 2 categories - the "classic muscle car" - pretty much the biggest engine stuffed into the lightest body, and the "new era muscle car" - very much a ground up designed, super fast, decent handling world class sports car.

I think the forum title is fine - I mean if folks think that the cars listed can't go around corners - I say "bring it on"

blah · 11-04-2003, 10:35 AM

The GTO, as ive said on RF.com needs to die. It is not a Muscle car, and never will be one. Just because you stick a OHV V-8 in it doesnt make it muscle. THing cant even run 13s with a proffesional test driver, how you think any of us can get it in there. The Ford Mustang is a Muscle car, and so is the Z06. The Sound is muscle, the look is muscle, and the speed is muscle. The cobra is damn sexy, and so is the z06. But your right the build quality is shabby at best. Until american companies learn that its Quality not quanity they will keep making crappy cars. Hopefully dodge will do it right if they release the new Dodge Charger.

My thoughts

GM- Bring back the Camaro/Firebird, but push the V-6s thats what ford does with the mustang and look at the sales on that.
-On the C6 make a z06 that can almost compete with the viper, but do not make it so it is too pricey. Then maybe 2 years down the road after dodge revamps the Viper again, go for the kill.

Ford-Bring back the new 05 Lightning to kill the Dodge Ram SRT-10 , keep the truck the same as the concept, because the hood is sexy.
-Make the SVT Cobra be able to compete with the Corvette, that will give Team Vette a lot of overtime.

Jabba · 11-04-2003, 10:44 AM

Perhaps there should be 2 categories - the "classic muscle car" - pretty much the biggest engine stuffed into the lightest body, and the "new era muscle car" - very much a ground up designed, super fast, decent handling world class sports car

Changed.

Kangaroo Boy · 11-04-2003, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by blah

The GTO, as ive said on RF.com needs to die. It is not a Muscle car, and never will be one. Just because you stick a OHV V-8 in it doesnt make it muscle. THing cant even run 13s with a proffesional test driver, how you think any of us can get it in there..

I guess you can blame GM for that..Not us,as our Monaro is a good car.GM should have designed GTO over the states than importing A monaro looka like.

RC45 · 11-04-2003, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by blah

The GTO, as ive said on RF.com needs to die. It is not a Muscle car, and never will be one. Just because you stick a OHV V-8 in it doesnt make it muscle.

Ironically though, that is how the muscle cars of the 50's and 60's were created.

They simply stuffed big engines into light weight grocery getting mom and pop cars...

The original GTO was a big engine (a 383 tri-power if I am not mistaken) stuffed into the Pontiac Tempest grocery getter.

How else could you do it following that recipe (not a ground up rebuild - but an engine-stuffing excercise)?

RC45 · 11-04-2003, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Jabba

Perhaps there should be 2 categories - the "classic muscle car" - pretty much the biggest engine stuffed into the lightest body, and the "new era muscle car" - very much a ground up designed, super fast, decent handling world class sports car

Changed.

Ta there mate.

jon_s · 11-04-2003, 12:05 PM

What about the new Ford GT40??

11-04-2003, 12:18 PM

tryin to please the americans ah guys (jabba/TT)

RC45 · 11-04-2003, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by jon_s

What about the new Ford GT40??

Good call - although, much like the original, Ford was "forced" into building it - let's face it, they don't have much other than the SVT Cobra

dis3as3d · 11-04-2003, 12:57 PM

Im going to have to disagreee, I think the new GTO is a muscle car. Sure it dosent have retro looks or agressive hood scoops. But its got a 350 horse LS1 under the hood and I think it has the balls to make up for its lackluster looks.

On the other hand I do not beleive the new GT40 to be a muscle car. Its more of a super/sports car than a Muscle car... but that is just my opinion.

IMO to be a Muscle car you need to be at least American V8 powered, Front Engine, Rear Wheel Drive, Economical, and straight line oriented(what I mean by that is that IT was one of the primary focus, and I am by no means saying that they cannot take the twisties.)

graywolf624 · 11-04-2003, 01:18 PM

The GTO actually is the muscle car of the bunch. A muscle car is defined as simply a big sedan with a big engine. The original GTO was also as such.

The Corvette has never been a muscle car, and neither has the camaro or mustang.
The camaro and mustang are pony cars while the corvette is a true sports car.

"a 383 tri-power if I am not mistaken"
Depends on year. The biggest engine for the gtos was a 454 I think. They were always just a tempest or a Lemans with a slightly different body and a big engine.

graywolf624 · 11-04-2003, 01:18 PM

The GTO actually is the muscle car of the bunch. A muscle car is defined as simply a big sedan with a big engine. The original GTO was also as such.

The Corvette has never been a muscle car, and neither has the camaro or mustang.
The camaro and mustang are pony cars (smaller cars 2+2 with a big engine) while the corvette is a true sports car.

"a 383 tri-power if I am not mistaken"
Depends on year. The biggest engine for the gtos was a 454 I think. They were always just a tempest or a Lemans with a slightly different body and a big engine.

spicymustard · 11-04-2003, 02:18 PM

The Viper is the only true muscle car left, because of deplacement, look, and concept. The S7 is not a muscle car, its fast and powerful, but a muscle car needs to take power above all, and you cant have a mid-engine muscle car. The verdict is still out on the z06 being a muscle car or not, i really have not decided in my head. The mustang may handle like a muscle car or the early 70's but it does not have any punch, unless you buy some overprived aftermarket evolution of it, even then it handles like shit, and the displacement is just too low. A camaro is a muscle car. But what about the shelby S1 no one mentioned it, and i would consider it a muscle car.

The ultimate muscle is the 71 cuda with a six pack, and a rag top.