Häkkinen analyses Montoya and Räikkönen

[is64fun]

hakkinen is a great driver. only the fins do not know this unfortunatly.

[dons5]

ya i can see what he means bout later in the season closer but at first kimi, i think it might be like that with Fisi and Alonso, we'll see.

[ZfrkS62]

JPM is going to be busting his ass in winter testing to get familiar with that car. these guys both have an ego (iceman my ass, have you seen how pissed he was getting this year?) there is no way Montoya is going to let Kimi get away with being fastest for very long. Especially after winning Brazil. There is an ego to stroke here guys, and that is going to lead to civil war within the McLaren camp

i'm looking forward to this soap opera 8)

[5vz-fe]

Competitive is tough to draw next year coz both of them will be sitting in front of an engine that will blow before the end of the 2nd race. My bet is both will get very frustrated with Mclaren's reliability. On the other hand, Ferrari is starting with their 2004 car for the first 5 races will be laughing its ass off =)

[numerouno]

Kimi's gonna the man for Mclaren, I think Kimi's got superior skills, however JPM's definately the tougher (sometimes his toughness works against himself)

[ZfrkS62]

seriously, who ever gave that name to kimi, "iceman".

it is self proclaimed. everyone just kept using it

[dons5]

I wanna see them battling on track all over each others asses trying to pass and stuff, you know going all out not caring about the race itself but only the race against his teammate, passing eachother at all costs etc etc

[ZfrkS62]

Originally Posted by dons5 I wanna see them battling on track all over each others asses trying to pass and stuff, you know going all out not caring about the race itself but only the race against his teammate, passing eachother at all costs etc etc

yeah, that's going to piss off alot of people. especially Max and Bernie. Remember, they don't like overtaking :roll:

it's going to be carnage for the first few races. the notion about Montoya racing bumper cars is probably goin gto come up again, despite the fact that he's been pretty good about not taking anyone out the past couple of years. (save for one incident in 2003, but i don't think that was really his fault like the FIA said it was)

[mindgam3]

Well assuming mclaren will have a new car for next year, then they will both have near enough equal time to get used to it..... the only advantage kimi will have other than his skills are that hes already integrated and knows the mclaren infrastructure..... still i'm sure montoya will give kimi more of a run for his money than DC did

Considering that ferrari are running this years F2004 with updated aero until the end of february im thinking its going to be extremely close at the top for the first few races

[mindgam3]

Originally Posted by Ronin005 Originally Posted by mindgam3 Well assuming mclaren will have a new car for next year, then they will both have near enough equal time to get used to it..... the only advantage kimi will have other than his skills are that hes already integrated and knows the mclaren infrastructure..... still i'm sure montoya will give kimi more of a run for his money than DC did Considering that ferrari are running this years F2004 with updated aero until the end of february im thinking its going to be extremely close at the top for the first few races don't underestimate the 2k4 Ferrari. the rules i think benefit Ferrari, since in the past 5 years they haven't had any issues with reliability and getting the most out of the engine, where as other teams i think are going to have issues with that. heck they have trouble with making 1 engine last 1 weekend now it has to last 2 weekends, and still have enough power to win. yeah def on Ferrari's side. back on topic, i dont like either KR or JPM. but i do think JPM is a little bit of a better driver. if he can just learn to control his emotion's he can and will make a very good name for himself, and will eventually win a title or two.

I'm not underestimating, but the likelyhood of the 2k4 ferrari still dominating next years brand new mclarens, bar's, williams etc isn't really that likely.

No doubt when they release the F2005 in february ferrari will back to their usual form again

[sameerrao]

I personally think Kimi will beat Montoya next year.

non-driving reasons:
- familiarity with the car, team personnel, Mclaren way of working
- calmer disposition when things go wrong
- Calm under Pressure

Driving reasons:
I think Kimi is better able to judge the limits of the car and stay at the 100% level. Montoya thru sheer exuberance crosses the limit and has faith in his ultr-fast reaction times to recover from the situation.

If the car is really bad - uneven grip, instability then Montoya might be able to monster the car better.

Both have similar driving styles in that they approach apex conventionally (unlike say both Schumis and DC). So from a setup point of view both will be equally happy or equally disappointed with the car.

By contrast take Mclaren today, DC's driving style warrants a car that is stable on entry with no understeer (because he turns in early) and a little oversteer on exit (to rotate the car better) but Kimi's style can deal with understeer on entry and oversteer on exit because he doesnt turn in early.

[dons5]

"By contrast take Mclaren today, DC's driving style warrants a car that is stable on entry with no understeer (because he turns in early) and a little oversteer on exit (to rotate the car better) but Kimi's style can deal with understeer on entry and oversteer on exit because he doesnt turn in early."

Sameerrao personally i think you might be wrong wit those comments, DC cant stand oversteer and uses a more stable understeery setup. But Michael on the other hand uses a stiffer and more oversteery setup and just uses his unbelievable throttle control to keep the rear end in balance.

p.s. sorry i dont know how to quote only a certain section of a reply

[nthfinity]

^^^^
highlight a section of text in the thread, then hit the 'quote selected' button beneath the smilies in the 'quick reply' box.

or just use [ quote ] [/quote ] without any extra spaces

anyway, i dont know about how the drivers like thier setups, but personally, i would rather see JPM getting podiums then KR... i may not like either that much, but JPM seems more passionate... thus more deserving.

[sameerrao]

Originally Posted by Ronin005 non-driving reasons: - familiarity with the car, team personnel, Mclaren way of working - calmer disposition when things go wrong - Calm under Pressure you have got to be kidding with those last 2 reasons. calm when things go wrong? maybe you didn't see how he acted towards the marshalls when they tried to help him out of the car the last 2 times the car failed on him. and iamb sure the way he acted then is the same way he acts when hes not in the cameras view, if not worse. under pressure? one cant really say, as he really hasn't been put under allot of pressure, especially this past season. though a few times when he had MS on him last season or the season prior to 2k3 he made mistakes. personally i like the aggressiveness of JPM. and hes not afraid of anyone which is a good thing, though i think he is intimidated my MS but wont admit it. but only time will tell, who prevails of the 2.

LOL! I realised that someone will bring this up. I am refering to his general temperement and not a particular incident.

If you want to look for incidents you can find one for every driver where they react strongly at flashpoints situations:
- E.g. Michael slammed his helmet into the pit real hard after Monaco
- Michael went to accost DC after Spa 98
- Villenueve and Montoya in Australia 2001 when they both believved that the other was brake-testing them.

So it is not specific incidents that matter but a general trend that emerges.

Here's what I mean - sure he pushed aside the marshall but that was the end of the incident - he didnt do anything else after that did he? Keep in mind his car failed him - what was is 8 times or so this year which would have reduced a Montoya or Ralfie to extreme hysteria. He just knuckled down with the belief that things will eventually turn around.

The car failures did not affect him in subsequent races or did not provoke major boo-hooing in media bitching about the team or whatever.

I thought he handled it very well. Keep in mind Ross Brawn and Jean Todt's praise for Kimi in his overall calmness. In fact they all believe that this season was a great character builder for him.


Calmness under pressure:
Keep in mind Kimi is still young and he is improving with time. He successfully fended of Michael at Spa despite issues with the car following the first lap incident with Massa (?). That was a supreme drive on his side.

I think about France 2002 where the same drivers were battling, Kimi slipped on the oil - otherwise he might have held him back....

[sameerrao]

Originally Posted by dons5 "By contrast take Mclaren today, DC's driving style warrants a car that is stable on entry with no understeer (because he turns in early) and a little oversteer on exit (to rotate the car better) but Kimi's style can deal with understeer on entry and oversteer on exit because he doesnt turn in early." Sameerrao personally i think you might be wrong wit those comments, DC cant stand oversteer and uses a more stable understeery setup. But Michael on the other hand uses a stiffer and more oversteery setup and just uses his unbelievable throttle control to keep the rear end in balance. p.s. sorry i dont know how to quote only a certain section of a reply

I need to review some old mags to see what he said about this.

This is Kimi's viewpoint on his driving style from an interview with Matt Bishop of F1 Racing magazine:

"OK. You and Mika are friends. Do you ask his advice about new circuits?"
"No, not really. We talk about things to do with normal life."
"Yes, but neither of you has a normal life, Kimi!"
"No, OK, so we talk about racing, but I don't ask his advice about corners. In the end, anyway, it's very difficult to do that. If I ask him how to drive a corner, or a lap, then what he says might apply to him but it might not apply to me. These things are natural for us - for any good racing driver. And, you know, good racing drivers don't really discuss these things. I mean, if you don't know the way to go through a corner, you shouldn't be there in the first place."
I think it's called genius.

Trackside, it's apparent. Traction control notwithstanding, Kimi likes to slide the car. We're not talking Ronnie Peterson-style broadsides, armfuls of opposite lock balanced by bootfuls of welly. No. But where, say, a Rubens Barrichello would be neat, tidy, in-line, Kimi will sometimes dial in a judiciously regulated five-or-so degrees of opposite lock if he thinks it feels right.

"That's correct," says Sauber technical director Willy Rampf. "People tend to think traction control is an on-off switch, like on some road cars, but in F1, of course, it's not. In slow corners, in particular, some drivers like a bit of power-oversteer, and Kimi is one of them. So he tells us how much support he requires from traction control, and we then tailor the level of traction control to his requirements. "He's very, very quick - and that speed is, I think, natural. He's not a late braker. He brakes reasonably early, into an early apex, and carries a lot of speed to that apex. From a technical point of view, he is maximising the potential of the tyre."

Push Kimi on the technical aspects of his driving style, and his sometimes barely perceptible monotone is hardened by a more strident timbre. "For me, the worst thing is turn-in understeer. If you have turn-in understeer, it's hard to get to the apex fast enough. I like the car a bit 'pointy'. I like more grip at the front, because then you can put the car where you really want it, and sort out the rear end if it starts to do something. Maybe catch the slide, or maybe put it a bit sideways if you can't catch it. That's no problem for me. If you turn the car in, and it's sliding - turn-in oversteer - you can easily control the car with the throttle as well as the steering. But if you have turn-in understeer, you can't do that.

"That's all before the apex. After the apex, for me, the important thing is to get on the power as quick as possible. So I like a car where you can do that - even if it means you're controlling the car on the throttle, going a bit sideways again. For me, that's better than having to wait ages before you can get the power on. That's the worst. Also, if you have exit understeer you have to use more steering lock, and that scrubs off speed."

"That sounds a bit like Michael. Would you say that your driving style is similar to his?" I asked. "I watch some drivers, and I think they are obviously trying to be as smooth as possible. Maybe they don't wanna slide the car. That's not me. For me, sliding the car is OK. So, well, I've heard people say that I look a bit like Michael on the track. So maybe, yes. We maybe drive in a similar way, I think."