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Old 10-05-2004, 05:44 AM   #151
Wutputt
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Sorry to dig up an older thread, but what a thread it is. I loved reading all your post st-anger, including the discussion with lakatu.

But there's always been a question I had about the four-wheel drive PTM system.


Originally Posted by st-anger
These include permanent four-wheel Porsche Traction Management (PTM) featured as standard conveying 62 per cent of the engine's power to the rear and 38 per cent to the front wheels in its basic mode. Depending on driving requirements, up to 100 per cent of engine power may be fed to the front or to the rear for optimum stability and performance.
I just can't understand how the system can transfer up to 100% of torque to only one axle (rear or front) to cope with extreme driving situations.

Maybe my problem is just the fact I misunderstand the PTM system. The way I understand the system is explained in the following sketch. On the right is the reduction gearing, in the middle the planetary central differential and on the left the electronically controlled multiplate clutch, which can lock up front and rear axle.



Ta is the torque going to the rear wheels and Tv is the one going to the front wheels. It's only a sketch so the scale of the gears doesn't really match the reality.

The way I understand the system is as follows. The incoming torque from the transmission can either be directly fed to the ring gear of the central differential or can be diverted via the reduction gear. The PTM control unit (commanded by the driver) can engage the reduction gearing (low gearing) by a sleeve (the two arrow thingy on the sketch).
The planet gear carrier is connected to the rear driving shaft and the sun gear to the front driving shaft. And the electronically controlled multiplate clutch connects front and rear driving shaft.

In normal driving conditions the multiplate clutch is fully opened so the torque split is 38/62. When the multiplate clutch is fully locked the torque split is 50/50. In between those two extreme conditions the torque split can vary but in a controlled way. But with this system it still is impossible to transfer 100% of torque for example to the rear wheels when the front ones haven't any grip, isn’t it? Because the multiplate clutch can only lock up so at most 50% of the torque is transferred to the rear wheels.

Or has this "up to 100% of torque may be fed to the front or to the rear" feature something to do with the ABD function of PTM? So in the above extreme situation when front wheels don't have any grip, the ABD just brakes the front wheels so torque is automatically transferred to the rear wheels?

Can you clarify the situation for me?
Many thanks in advance


Oh, and one other question. I thought the only difference between Porsche's PTM and VW's 4XMotion are the gear ratio's of the central differential so PTM has a standard 38/62 split and 4XMotion a 50/50 split. Is this correct?
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Old 10-25-2004, 01:33 PM   #152
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DAUER 962LM

:arrow: http://www.962lm.com/index-h.htm



LeMans For The Road

June 1994, and the yellow Dauer Racing 962LM road car prototype caused a stir as it cruised around the Sarthe to the delight of car enthusiasts from all over the world. The very next day, the race version of this car won the 1994 24 Hours of Le Mans for Porsche. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since that first car was built, and the definitive version of this earth-bound guided missile is different and better in many ways. Attention to detail has turned it from a street-legal racer into a thoroughly developed and civilised road going supercar. A plethora of electro-hydraulic systems have been built into the car, so now pneumatic struts hold the doors open and opening and closing the huge engine compartment cover is now power-assisted and at the touch of a button. If you have a ramp on your driveway or need to negotiate a speed bump, pressing another button raises the suspension a couple of inches. The computer that looks after the hydraulic element of the suspension also automatically lowers the car from its raised height if you exceed 50mph (80km/h). It is also not much fun to have to change gears on a car like this in traffic. Dauer considered many options and in the end came up with a unique transmission that uses the normal 962 manual box and clutch. But instead of using a gear lever, you select ratios via the Tiptronic S style knobs on the steering wheel. More efficient air-cooling, full-leather trim, a detachable steering wheel for easy access and properly detailed luggage compartments in the sills. All these refinements plus better, more comfortable seats have transformed the latest model.

Climbing in means stepping on a seat because you don't want to damage the kevlar tops of the luggage bins in the deep sills. Once in, you sit snug and secure in the cockpit of the world's fastest road car. Press the starter and 730 race bred horses roar into life. The engine in the car is the famous 2994cc water-cooled, twin-cam-per-bank, four-valves-per-cylinder Porsche flat-six. A pair of intercooled KKK turbochargers are employed and the Le Mans spec engine has 'softer' cams and therefore more tractable driving characteristics.

This engine is fully European emissions legal thanks to racing catalytic convertors and Bosch Motronic 1.7 engine management. The latter allows a relatively high 9.0:1 compression ratio to be run without any problems. The 730bhp is delivered at 7,400rpm, you get a red warning light at 7,300rpm, the soft-cut rev limiter goes into action at 7,400rpm and there is a hard cut-out at 7,800rpm. At 1080kg, the 962LM may weigh around 180kg more than its competition brother, but its power-to weight ratio is still better than a McLaren F1s. In a drag start, 0-60mph takes just 2.6 sec in first gear! Five seconds later you have doubled your speed again. Ultimately a shade over 250mph is possible, about twice the take-off speed of a jumbo jet!

On a dry racetrack, even the 517 lb ft of torque that arrives at 5,000rpm cannot break the grip of the 265/35ZR 18 rear tyres on their 11J x 18-inch wheels, and the acceleration on full boost is really mind-blowing. Whooooa! The engine's scream builds to a crescendo. It is a symphony for cams and induction. Second gear, 7,400rpm. Flick the gear selector to third and depress the clutch. The next ratio drops in smoothly and as you come back hand on the throttle in third, the engine noise builds up very quickly again. Only 1,200rpm between gears. Whooooa! Select fourth with the button. 7,400rpm. Dip the clutch. Fourth gear. 160mph. Running out of straight now. Hit the gear selector button to go down two ratios and make full use of the fabulous anchors. The car shrugs off 100mph in scant seconds and you feel the g-force of retardation and the harnesses biting into your shoulders as you dip the clutch to find second gear. The engine note rises, greeting the gear that will rocket you through the right hand bend as you come back on the throttle to balance the car into the turn that leads back to the pit lane...


The Road Car That Won Le Mans

The night is always long at the 24 Heures du Mans, the most famous motor race in the World. Reputations are won or lost here, whole media campaigns built around the winning cars. For spectators, many of them who traveled hundreds or even thousands of miles, Le Mans is much more than a 24-hour motor race. With the sights and sounds of the cars, the tension in the air and the fairground atmosphere of the infield, it is almost a cultural experience.

Culture, however, is the last thing on the minds of the pit crews. Unlike the drivers who try to sleep between stints, the team managers and mechanics don´t get a wink for the duration of the race. Adrenaline keeps them going. They need that high to keep them sharp, for when something goes wrong, they have to have their wits about them to get the car back in the race as fast as possible. Split seconds may not be as crucial as in a sprint race, but as the SARD Toyota team found out this year when the gear linkage had to be repaired on the leading car, the time it takes to maker and drink a cup of coffee is still the difference between winning and coming second. Thierry Boutsen, Hans-Joachim Stuck and Danny Sullivan in the Dauer Racing Porsche 962 LM were lying a strong second to the Toyota 92CV driven by Eddie Irvine, Jeff Krosnoff and Mauro Martini, Running third was the other Dauer Porsche driven by Mauro Baldi, Hurley Haywood and Yannick Dalmas, a lap and half behind. At Le Mans, that means 13 miles!

Then the lead Porsche suffered a minor off-course excursion, followed by a drive-shaft failure. This was soon fixed, but in the meantime Baldi, Haywood and Dalmas were Porsche´s only hop for victory. Painfully slowly but surely, they ate into Toyota´s lead until a blunder found both Porsches arriving in the pits at the same time. In the confusion, the lead Porsche lost nearly half a lap to the Toyota.

Near the end of the race, when it looked like the Toyota was going to snatch the second-ever Japanese victory at Le Mans, its gear linkage went. Jeff Krosnoff managed to limp back to the pits, but in the 13 minutes it took to fix the problem, it was all over. The Dauer 962 LMs finished first and third; Porsche had won the 24 Hours of Le Mans yet again. In fact, it was a double-whammy for the Stuttgarter´s, as a Carrera RSR also took top honors in the production-based GT2 class.

Traveling Clothes

The Dauer Racing 962 LMs took part in Le Mans this year at the behest of Porsche. Originally meant to be a civilized street version of the mot famous Group C sports car in history, the 962 Le Mans has completely new Kevlar bodywork and a totally bespoke interior compared to the standard racer. The 1994 Le Mans regulations published by the organizing ACO (Automobile Club de l´Ouest) allowed very low-volume street-legal sports cars to to race in GT1 or GT2; the Dauer racing 962 Le Mans was such a car and was thus eligible. It was sheer irony – and a loophole in the regulations that the French authorities tried to plug but could not – that allowed a fully fledged Group C car to be converted to a road car and then back to a race.

When Jochen Dauer first conceived his 962 road car three years earlier he had no idea that it would someday win Le Mans, but his name is no stranger to the Sarthe circuit. Dauer Racing is linked to a string of IMSA and German Interserie successes, and famous names like Hans-Joachim Stuck, Bob Wollek and John Andretti have driven for the teams run by Jochen Dauer. When the deathknell of the turbocharged Group C cars was sounded in 1991, Dauer began to explore the possibility of developing hi own road-legal version of the car. One of his first stops was to contact stylist Achim Storz, who used to work for Porsche Design and penend the famous McLaren M26 F1 car of the 1970s. Latterly, Storz has designed concept cars for Audi, BMW, Citroen, VW and Nissan.

The first sketches showed a car much more rounded than the Group C racer and this became the logo for the project that appears on all Dauer´s literature and T-shirts. The shape was distinctive for its larger, more rounded windscreen than the race cars. This larger and longer `bubble´ gives a greater feel of space and the finished car is actually 7cm higher over the roll cage.

The next step was to transfer this 2D concept into 3D and industrial designer, Gert Hildebrand was brought in to make model from the drawing. In fact, the design team missed out on step which is normally to produce a 1:5 scale model and they went form drawings to a full-size mock up. This was not actually a problem except the mock up was built on a platform 50cm off the ground level. “When we finally brought the car down to ground level, we discovered a lot of mistakes had been made” Klaus explained, “purely because of having the car off the ground we looked at it.” These were corrected and pattern work began in July 1991. This took a year, and then they began an intensive program of wind tunnel testing by Dutch race car designer Wiet Huidekoper, based in St. Neots, Cambridgeshire, to resolve aerodynamic and stability issues. With a shorter nose and the increased ground clearance needed for the road, the car was unbalanced and carried to much rear downforce. Work was thus directed to increasing downforce at the front. When all these issues were resolved it was found that while total downforce was now just 40% that of the Group C race cars, the drag coefficient had also dropped to a very good 0.31Cd. This very low drag figure was significant for the Dauers projected top speed, the target which was 400 km/h (nearly 250 mph) a very reasonable goal considering the speed potential of the much higher-drag race cars. The interior is work of Reinald Mattes from Ludwigsburg. He came in and used 300kg of clay in the process of making a full sized mock up from which he could take moulds! “ He changed his mind twice during the design process, “ Klaus explained, “but he did a very good job and managed to squeeze in the two full-size seats we wanted.” When the final design was approved, polyester moulds were taken off the plaster, finished with body filler and then the final patterns were used for the production pieces which are made from carbon fibre. These patterns alone wound costing the equivalent of $125,000!


Dauer Straights

50 people will have the chance to buy their own street-legal version of the 1994 Le Mans winning Dauer 962.... just from an orderly queue.

The driver and passenger of the VW Golf at the traffic lights nearly felt out of their seats as we came to a halt beside them. People crossing the road came close to tripping over their feet as they gaped in amazement, and I am convinced that an old man sitting at a tram stop nearly did an `Exorcist´ as he turned his head to fellow our progress.

The bright yellow Dauer Racing 962 Le Mans has that effect on people. As a road car it is weird, whacky and wonderful at the same time, and it attracts eyeball contact like a magnet sucks in iron filings.

It is also a bitch to drive in city traffic. In full road trim, the clutch and steering are not too heavy, the air-conditioning is effective enough and, thanks to Motronic engine management, the engine, detuned to a mere 730bhp, is surprisingly tractable. No, the real problem is visibility, or lack of it.

Over six feet wide, with extremities that are invisible from the driving seat and reward visibility akin to peering out from a mailbox slit, the 962 Le Mans is not a shopping car, the two big wing mirrors, pinched from a Porsche Turbo, give a reasonable view over the rear wings, but reversing into a parking space really needs help from a third party. Having said that, the rectangular luggage compartment built into the deep and wide left-hand door sill is large enough to take custom-made carbon-fibre cases for weekend away. No, the 962 Le Mans true place is on the open road - long clear autobahns with fast, sweeping curves that can be taken at 150mphor open, winding country roads with fine visibility for a mile or so ahead that seems to be a specialty in Germany.

And it was here on the autobahn that this DM1.million worth of carbon-Kevlar and light alloy technology finally came into his own. With growing volumes of traffic, it is no longer de riguer to travel at constant three-figure speeds on the unrestricted sections of autobahn. Unless you wake early, very early on a Sunday morning in summer with the specific aim for a long, hard blast, you will fin it tough to exercise a 911 Turbo, let alone the Dauer 962 Le Mans. But when you do to get the play. The rewards are immense and the sensations are unforgettable.

Those who do use the rear mirrors move out of you way instantly when they see the bright yellow form. Looked at head-on, it is squat, wide and has `speed` written all over it in as subtle away as a brick through a plate glass of window. And those who move over are threatened to a rare magnificent sight as the yellow machine rockets off into the distance. After all, how many people can say that they have been overtaken by a Group C Le Mans Porsche? Out of context, it would imply that you had been driving at Le Mans yourself...

In the cockpit, the noise is immense. But le me quality this first, lest you get can the wrong impression. There are actually two road-going versions of the Dauer 962 Le Mans. We were out driving the Sport version which is the car the Le Mans homologation papers were based on, There is also a totally road going version which, it is expected, private individuals who wish to sue it just as a road car will opt for. Dauer Racing´s Klaus Fischer explained that “a lot of the engine noise form this Sport version comes from the direct driven cams. The proper street version has its cams coated with with a special noise absorbing substance used on MAN trucks for this purpose and the engine cover has a 50mm thick foam insulation which makes the car significantly quieter inside.”

Unlike some of the other Porsche 962C road car conversion, the Dauer 962 Le Mans has completely new Kevlar bodywork. “All the panels are different,” Klaus explained, “and we have a totally bespoke interior as well.”

The Dauer Racing name is linked to a string of World Sportcars Championship, IMSA and German Interserie successes, with famous names like Hans-Joachim Stuck, Bob Wollek and John Andretti driving for the teams run by Dauer racing. When the dead knell came of the turbocharged Group C cars was sounded in 1991, Jochen Dauer began to explore the possibility of developing his own road version of the 962 and consulting Achim Storz, a well known German stylist who used to work for Porsche Design and who panned the famous McLaren M26 F1 car of the 1970´s. Latterly, Storz has designed concept cars for Audi, BMW, Citroen, VW and Nissan.

The first sketches showed a car much more rounded than the Gruop C racer and this became the logo for the project that appears on all Dauer´s literature and T-shirts. The shape was distinctive for its larger, more rounded windscreen than the race cars. This larger and longer `bubble´ gives a greater feel of space and the finished car is actually 7cm higher over the roll cage.

The next step was to transfer this 2D concept into 3D and industrial designer, Gert Hildebrand was brought in to make model from the drawing. In fact, the design team missed out on step which is normally to produce a 1:5 scale model and they went form drawings to a full-size mock up. This was not actually a problem except the mock up was built on a platform 50cm off the ground level. “When we finally brought the car down to ground level, we discovered a lot of mistakes had been made” Klaus explained, “purely because of having the car off the ground we looked at it.”

The interior is work of Reinald Mattes from Ludwigsburg. He came in and used 300kg of clay in the process of making a full sized mock up from which he could take moulds! “ He changed his mind twice during the design process, “ Klaus explained, “but he did a very good job and managed to squeeze in the two full-size seats we wanted.” When the final design was approved, polyester moulds were taken off the plaster, finished with body filler and then the final patterns were used for the production pieces which are made from carbon fibre. The pattern alone cost DM200,000!

The engine is the Le Mans spec 2994cc watercooled flat six with DOHC per bank of cylinders and four-valves-per-cylinder. Twin KKK turbos are employed with charge-coolers on either side and the expensive stainless-steel exhaust system with four exit pipes has catalytic converters which help to meet EEC emission standards. Engine management which is Bosch Moronic 1.7 which helps tractability, emissions and, of course, output, which is 730bhp at 7600rpm with 517 lb ft of torque at 5000rpm with a 9.0:1 compression ratio.

A hydraulic-operated sinter metal clutch takes this power to the road via a five speed, all-synchronized gearbox and there is , of course, a limited slip differential in the axle. Suspension is by double wishbones in front and inverted wishbones at the rear with transverse links and radius rods. The dampers have concentric titanium springs and the anti-roll bars are adjustable. Spring and damper rates of the road car are considerably lower than the racing version. There is a ride-height control system to help the car negotiate speed bumps and garage ramps.

With a kerb weight of just 108kg (Group C cars raced under 900kg), the 962 Le Mans will rocket to 60mph in 2.6 sec, in first gear and reach double that speed in 7.2 sec from rest! Top speed is 251,25mph! Containing this sort of performance is hard on the brakes and these are 330mm diameter Brembo vented discs with four-pot calipers. The road car gets specially made six-spoke Speedline alloy wheels of 10J and 11J x 18 inch dimensions shod with 265/35ZR18 and 285/40ZR18 rubber, while the Sport version uses BBS wheels.

In this form the Dauer Racing 962 Le Mans was completed and made its public debut at the Frankfurt Show 1993. And it went to the motor show in Dubai at the end of November. “Although not involved in the project at all, unofficially Porsche had been very helpful in sourcing parts and advice for the project and, once the car was finished and on show, they became somewhat warmer to the idea,” Jochen Dauer explained. “We started the project in 1991 as a pure road car, although we always said it would be possible to race it in the projected GT class with F40s and Bugattis. We were not too much surprised when Porsche approached us in December 1993 to discuss a possible Le mans entry.”

Porsche had been planning to enter the 993 in turbocharged form at Le Mans, but lack of development time meant that it might not be that competetive in the GT2 category. Besides, GT2 was not as fine as an achievement as winning outright, and it had been some years since Porsche had claimed a Le Mans victory. The factory reasoned that, as the Dauer 962 was homologated as a road legal sports car, it was eligible to be turned into a GT1 Le Mans entrant. And then in January, the ACO, governing body of the Le Mans 24 Hour event, introduced the flat-bottom rules which caused a big hiccup in the car´s specifications. With just 40 per cent of a racing 962´s downforce due to its underbody configuration, the Dauer 962 was fine for fast autobahn sweepers taken at 180mph, but if it were to comply with the Le Mans flat-bottom rule, it would have no downforce at all! And on a racing track you need substantial downforce to generate competitive and safe cornering speeds.

Dauer and Porsche thought long and hard about the rules and then decided that the only way to meet them was to homologate a second version of the road car with an underbody configuration in front and on behind the axles that could generate the needed downforce in conjunction with spoilers that were allowed to be used.

And so the 962 Le mans Sport version was born with a longer nose, deeper tail with double wing (you could add a spoiler, which meant you could have two if you started with one!) and a flat underbody between the front of the front tyres and rear axle, Dauer than added two small air tunnels in front of the front tyres and aft of the rear axle for airflow control and brake cooling.

“It all happened very fast , “ Jochen Dauer explained. “The French changed the rules, we reacted to meet them and they didn´t understand the implications of our response within their rules. It was obvious that they still wanted to push us out as we stood a good chance of winning. They told us we had to run in Group C class rather than GT1 and we told them that we would leave ours cars at home in protest as we had fully complied with their rules.”

“The politicians realized that they had snookered themselves and had to let us run,” Jochen went on. “we went to Le mans and, as expected, a lot of people from the other teams protested, especially after Stuck went out and did a 3 min 56 sec lap in practice. He came in asking in asking for more downforce but we told him that was all he could have within the framework of rules, so he was limited to this best lap time. In fact, only the Courage Group C 962 went faster, but we won the race...”

All the 50 Dauer 962 Le Mans road cars that can be built will have a good competition history. “There is still one brand new unraced for sale at Porsche.” Jochen Dauer explained, “but from that point of view it will be worth less to a collector purely it has no history. When you buy a Dauer 962 Le Mans, you also get a folio of specially researched books which detail the history of the 956/962 model, the complete race history with photos of `your´ car and all the practice and race time sheets from every event it took part in.

Originality goes further than that, When a customer orders a car, he can be sure that only original Porsche parts are used in its mechanicals. In fact, while Dauer look after the carbon-fibre shell and interior, the chassis and engine will be built by the Porsche factory at Weissach.

Of all the road-legal 962C cars that have sprung up since Group C was pahesed out, the Dauer 962 le mans look to be the most convincing. Although it is the only one with a large amount of help from the factory in its making, it takes ultimate kudos from the undisputable historical fact that in won Le Mans outright in 1994.

HI-RES media pics: (.zip-file)
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Old 10-25-2004, 01:39 PM   #153
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WOW! Thanks!
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Old 10-25-2004, 01:49 PM   #154
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OMG! What a post! Been looking forward to this one for a while! 8)
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Old 10-25-2004, 02:05 PM   #155
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Amazing, always wanted to know a bit more on the "road going 956", but never thought there was this site!
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Old 05-27-2005, 04:07 PM   #156
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Robb Report - RUF RT12

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Old 11-27-2005, 05:07 AM   #157
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wow 650 bhp, and $300000 i think if i had a chance i would go for the carrera gt 8)

but this is a still great car, i would not mind owning one
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Old 11-27-2005, 08:48 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by pehtren
$300000 i think if i had a chance i would go for the carrera gt 8)
You need to find another $140 000 to buy a CGT so this RUF RT12 is a real bargain !
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:24 AM   #159
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Huh, no Model Overview on the Caymans from St. Anger?
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:21 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by dani_d_mas
^ st-anger is quite busy these days - that's why he doesn't post much in this section... although he always answer whatever you ask him via PM!
Yeah, but I don't want to bother him that much.

It's just about the Coxster anyways .
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Old 02-24-2008, 07:29 AM   #161
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Does Carrera GT have a same platform as a 911?
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Old 02-25-2008, 03:54 AM   #162
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No,

The CGT is it's own unique monocoque chassis designed from scratch utilising all carbon fiber materials and a mid engine layout.

911 variants use alloys and have rear engine layouts.
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