M5 vs E55: "Here's some leaked numbers from next weeks

[schnell318]

I know there´s no point in saying this but I really can´t help it: E65 will be faster in a stright line (of course having a twin turbo V12) but nothink more than that. Just my opinion anyway

[sentra_dude]

Originally Posted by BADMIHAI Not according to autocar. SMG only. I think it will also offer a six speed manual as an option. Even if the E55 was faster I'd still take the M5...more of a driver's car.

Apparently not...

“No manual will be available. Part of the reason for the SMG-only policy lies in the quest for longevity: the two cogs that handle the greatest torque should ideally be placed on the outside of the gear-set, but that leaves you with a shift-pattern unworkable with a regular manual lever. Hydraulically actuated sequential shifts are the answer.” -Autocar

I don't know if that's a bullshit answer from BMW or not...I think they could still put a standard 6 speed in there that's been strengthened up.

[schnell318]

No manual will be available that´s a fact

[BADMIHAI]

No manual will be available that´s a fact

To BMW: go suck a dick!

[blah]

Originally Posted by BADMIHAI No manual will be available that´s a fact To BMW: go suck a dick!

:Reply From BMW: Suck our balls.

[blah]

So ferrari left its herritage to by going with the F1 tranny? its not like this is a slapstick, its a F1 tranny whats wrong with that?

[schnell318]

I really don{t understand why youy keep calling the RS6 "the benchmark of it´s class". It´s obviously a very good car and I like it very very much but everyone knows the E39 M5 was the class leader and the reviews of the new M5 seem to be pointing the same way.

Maybe when the new RS6 comes it will be the class leader for the first time

[sentra_dude]

Originally Posted by brembo Originally Posted by sentra_dude Originally Posted by BADMIHAI Not according to autocar. SMG only. I think it will also offer a six speed manual as an option. Even if the E55 was faster I'd still take the M5...more of a driver's car. Apparently not... “No manual will be available. Part of the reason for the SMG-only policy lies in the quest for longevity: the two cogs that handle the greatest torque should ideally be placed on the outside of the gear-set, but that leaves you with a shift-pattern unworkable with a regular manual lever. Hydraulically actuated sequential shifts are the answer.” -Autocar I don't know if that's a bullshit answer from BMW or not...I think they could still put a standard 6 speed in there that's been strengthened up. You are right this is a BS answer from bimmer, there should be no problem making normal manuel gear box handling this tourqe at all, there have been and are cars handling more tourque than this with a manual gearbox..... they have sold out to the luxury customers, and are moving away from the drivers car image they want to make people belive they are, byt hey they have made the cars look like shit so why not pull the parts that truly where great with the bimmers down the drain too...... I hate the looks of the new bimmers, and if it hadnt been for that I would choose the bimmer over the merc cuz for me the merc is a old mans car..... but when the RS6 comes to town it will be the new bench mark for its class again........

Well, I say 'I don't know if this is a bullshit answer or not' because, on the one hand, I'm sure its quite true, there's no way they could offer a conventional manual version of that 7 speed box, for one that would be alot of speeds for an H-pattern, and also what BMW said...

On the other hand, I'm sure BMW has a 6spd lying around somewhere that could handle 507hp (it would be no harder than bolting on say the gearbox from that 600hp X5 thing), if they wanted to give it a real, three pedal, manual. 8) BMW seems intent on pushing 'new' technology...and right now the manual is a bit 'old fashioned'...so maybe they don't want to appear stuck in the past...or maybe they think they won't sell enough of the normal manuals, I mean look how many of those damn F1 boxes Ferrari sells, something like 70% of total sales, so maybe they figured it wasn't worth it. Fuck that, its not hard to switch trannies, fuck BMW for not putting a real manual as an option! Maybe if enough enthusiasts boycott BMW they will put a 6spd on it.


Hey, what are you getting on BMW for anyways, that pos RS6 doesn't even have a clutch! One controlled by a semi-insane computer or otherwise! It has pure torque-converter crap!

[ZfrkS62]

manual 6spd vs. 7spd SMG:

fuel mileage - SMG. With 7 gears you have a larger overdrive ratio which brings the revs in top gear much lower. ( to the top gearheads, i'm sorry if this sounds obvious. this is meant for someone who is wondering why you might need 7 gears). I know that on the FW26 this gear drops the revs by 500. I really don't know if the ratio was changed for the M5 so just how big of a reduction this is, is anyone's guess. A drop in revs is a hike in MPG and engine reliability. There's alot more stuff to list but not enough room.

interaction- 6 spd. clutch, shift, gas. repeat until satisfied

long trips- SMG- either pull the paddles, slap the shift knob or leave it in automated mode and set the cruise. this is also an advantage in case some cuts you off and you have to panic brake, no worries about stalling out on the freeway. ( stalling out like that on the freeway sounds dumb, but depending on how bad you panic, your left leg may freeze, especially if it's on the foot rest)

racing- SMG- hands down. more consistent launches, faster shifts, and less chance of a missed shift.

stop and go traffic-SMG- computer controlled clutch = less slip. and a hill hold program helps in hilly cities

starting off- this is going to vary in the SMG depending on the shift program, but i think the 6spd is going to get this one.- At the present moment, there is too much lag in the SMG for my taste. And forget idling forward, if you aren't pressing on the gas, the car won't move.


these are just a few of things to think about. of course this is all IMO. everyone's individual tastes will vary.

[sentra_dude]

Originally Posted by ZfrkS62 manual 6spd vs. 7spd SMG: fuel mileage - SMG. With 7 gears you have a larger overdrive ratio which brings the revs in top gear much lower. ( to the top gearheads, i'm sorry if this sounds obvious. this is meant for someone who is wondering why you might need 7 gears). I know that on the FW26 this gear drops the revs by 500. I really don't know if the ratio was changed for the M5 so just how big of a reduction this is, is anyone's guess. A drop in revs is a hike in MPG and engine reliability. There's alot more stuff to list but not enough room. interaction- 6 spd. clutch, shift, gas. repeat until satisfied

Yes!

long trips- SMG- either pull the paddles, slap the shift knob or leave it in automated mode and set the cruise. this is also an advantage in case some cuts you off and you have to panic brake, no worries about stalling out on the freeway. ( stalling out like that on the freeway sounds dumb, but depending on how bad you panic, your left leg may freeze, especially if it's on the foot rest)

I don't have any problem with a manual on long trips...actually that would be the area where there is the least difference between a manual and auto...I mean, you have to shift to get up to speed, but once there...no shifting. Yes, it is dumb to stall out on the highway...if you are driving the car you should be awake enough to press the clutch in to keep the car from stalling. :roll:

racing- SMG- hands down. more consistent launches, faster shifts, and less chance of a missed shift.

How many people go racing? Really, not many people take their cars to the track, at least not often enough to warrant spending the usual $7000-$10,000 premium of an F1 box.

stop and go traffic-SMG- computer controlled clutch = less slip. and a hill hold program helps in hilly cities

Hopefully the problems of older SMG/F1 boxes have been sorted out, and this isn't an issue anymore, but some F1s really do a number on the clutch, much worse than a normal person driving in traffic.

starting off- this is going to vary in the SMG depending on the shift program, but i think the 6spd is going to get this one.- At the present moment, there is too much lag in the SMG for my taste. And forget idling forward, if you aren't pressing on the gas, the car won't move. these are just a few of things to think about. of course this is all IMO. everyone's individual tastes will vary.

I can't really comment too much on how SMGs fair on the road since I've never driven a car with one, but I have spoken to a Ferrari owner about it (I don't know how similar the SMG & F1 are...but I'd guess there can't be too much difference) He said he thought they were trash until he drove one (360 Challenge) on the track, where it is brilliant. However, he said it was worthless on the road, and he much preferred the manual on the road...his Ferrari 355 was a 6spd, so I guess so .


I know all the advantages of F1 boxes backwards and forwards, but I think it comes down to people getting lazier and lazier and not wanting to operate gear stick, clutch & gas; but still wanting the 'sportiness' of a manual.

[ZfrkS62]

well, the SMGs i have driven had both been an E46M3. and to get the SMG option is only $2100 extra in any of the BMW cars (except the 7's). and i'm pretty sure that if an M5 owner gets challenged by some punk at a stop light, he isn't going to blow his doors off? Trust me, if the Launch mode in a 333Hp inline six pushed me into my seat, i can only imagine what a 507Hp V10 is going to be

If you get a chance, go swing by Peake BMW and see if you can get one of salesmen to give you a demonstration. I don't know if they will but its worth a shot. If they don't know how to get to it here are the instructions:

Press the DSC button. when the amber colored light (exclamation point in a triangle encircled by an arrow)

put the SMG in Sequential Mode. (make a shift with the paddles/knob)

press the program select button until the 6th bar in the display lights up

hold the shift knob forward and depress accelerator slowly to the floor, release knob and hang on

If you slam your foot to the floor and the release the knob you'll be in Burnout mode..also fun

[Sachmo12345]

they should slap the CL65 engine in the E class

[mindgam3]

Originally Posted by sentra_dude How many people go racing? Really, not many people take their cars to the track, at least not often enough to warrant spending the usual $7000-$10,000 premium of an F1 box. I know all the advantages of F1 boxes backwards and forwards, but I think it comes down to people getting lazier and lazier and not wanting to operate gear stick, clutch & gas; but still wanting the 'sportiness' of a manual.

Maybe not in the states but definately over here in the UK and most likely the rest of europe, track racing and events are a big thing and one of the most common track day cars is the M3 and at the end of the day, if you jsut want outright speed the F1/SMG is the way to go.

Although like most things its mainly down to personal preference but I would have liked to see a manual option definately.

[sentra_dude]

Originally Posted by ZfrkS62 well, the SMGs i have driven had both been an E46M3. and to get the SMG option is only $2100 extra in any of the BMW cars (except the 7's). and i'm pretty sure that if an M5 owner gets challenged by some punk at a stop light, he isn't going to blow his doors off? Trust me, if the Launch mode in a 333Hp inline six pushed me into my seat, i can only imagine what a 507Hp V10 is going to be If you get a chance, go swing by Peake BMW and see if you can get one of salesmen to give you a demonstration. I don't know if they will but its worth a shot. If they don't know how to get to it here are the instructions: Press the DSC button. when the amber colored light (exclamation point in a triangle encircled by an arrow) put the SMG in Sequential Mode. (make a shift with the paddles/knob) press the program select button until the 6th bar in the display lights up hold the shift knob forward and depress accelerator slowly to the floor, release knob and hang on If you slam your foot to the floor and the release the knob you'll be in Burnout mode..also fun

Hmmm...sounds like fun

Next time I'm in town (at college right now), I'll have to drop by Peake and see if they will let a 20 year old college student drive an M3.

I was wrong about the SMG...wow, that's pretty cheap, only $2185 according to edmunds, no wonder I see so many SMGs now! The Ferrari F1 is $10,435 though...ouch.

[ZfrkS62]

The Ferrari F1 is $10,435 though...ouch.

i guess if you're shelling out that much cash for a ferrari, whats an extra 10 grand?