American cars and curves.

[corvette97]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by SilviaEvo hahaha very pointless but whats this about the Porsche and the Z06? i think the Z06 would die against the Turbo. but there is that 50 something thousand above the Z06 for a little bit more performance. pretty pointless though Oh boy. ... not another person who didn't know the Z06 lapped Nurburgring in 7'56"...

hey RC where can i get the list of the NURB laps?

[graywolf624]

A 911 TURBO would murder any corvette ever made, or for that matter, that will ever be made.

Apples to oranges here.. The regular 911 turbo would be raped by the enzo or 360 cs modena.. but there both way over its price as well.

As for the sts.. last I heard there making a new one thats much better, with a v version.

Things may change soon in other words.

[DanielW]

i don't like european cars cause they have shitty black bumpers and mirrors that don't match the rest of the car. :roll:

[RC45]

Originally Posted by topgeartom A 911 TURBO would murder any corvette ever made, or for that matter, that will ever be made.

Really? And you have statistical, racing and other proof of this?

Originally Posted by topgeartom When the STS was in production, the 7 was an equivalent over here - both big luxury cruisers aimed at the same buyer. Even you admit that the STS was a terrible car.

Everyone will admit the STS was no super-car and that while they were both luxo-cruisers, that did THAT well, the Beemer had some extras thrown in.

It would seem that many of the STS buyers have flip-flopped between BMW, Lexus, Caddie and Mercs and probably have never used the "great handling" that the BMW's and Benzs have supposedly had.

The class of buyers you are referring to places a lower value on "handling" than many other folks - simply witness the sheer number of AMG Benz's selling that are rocketships in straight lines, but not the that great handlers (because with that weight they can't be).

Originally Posted by topgeartom Like i said, it seems you boys are now heading in the right direction (CTS) but even then, a 3 series would walk all over it in the corners.

The M3 and M5 may have met their match in the CTS-V, and the 330ci is taking attention of the CTS - but you are in a dream world if you think a BMW 318i is a "race track ready car" in stock form.

Originally Posted by topgeartom So what do you think is a fair comparison to a car like the '97 535i my family owns? I bet your hard-pushed to find a similarly good all rounder.

Now for the answer that ANY well read car enthusiast would know - there is no match for a '97 535 - why? Because the US car makers for many, many years focused on one flag-ship model per range (if you were lucky) and then bestowed on all the other cars in the range a generic range of fittings and finish.

So, there might be some merit in comparing the cornering ability of a 518i to a top line Cadillac Deville of the same generation - not a 535i - Why? Because while the 518i may outhandle the Caddy, fort the same price it out luxes even the 535i and some Benz's of the same era.

The cars on either side of the pond were made to a different set of criteria.. and EVERYONE knows and admits this.

It is only yahoos that want to keep arguing and belaboring an admitted point.

Now, back to your "911 will destroy any Corvette present or future comment" - how did you arrive at that conclusion again?

[RC45]

Originally Posted by DanielW i don't like european cars cause they have shitty black bumpers and mirrors that don't match the rest of the car. :roll:

...and no a/c and they only have a radio... :roll:

[topgeartom]

Originally Posted by DanielW i don't like european cars cause they have shitty black bumpers and mirrors that don't match the rest of the car. :roll:

A bit general, but fair point. You mean like this:

[DanielW]

let's not forget that all european cars have 12" rims. :roll:

[topgeartom]

All crap? 12" wheels?
I think not.
The best of British:

[RC45]

Originally Posted by topgeartom All crap? 12" wheels? I think not. The best of British:

Oh yes - that is just what the Transport Ministry wants everyone to be driving down the M5.. :roll:

You guys are just lucky you still have cars in the UK..

I am sure the crown would like you to all take the bus...

[topgeartom]

Originally Posted by RC45 you are in a dream world if you think a BMW 318i is a "race track ready car" in stock form.

When the hell did I say that, you sure you read my post?

I said a 3 series would walk over a american equivalent, i never ONCE mentioned anything about a bottom of the range 318 being a supercar on the track.

I'll give you credit on having one hell of a fu**ing imagination though.

I ain't just talking about pace with regards to the porsche V corvette example. When it comes to cornering comparison, the corvette would wallow all over the place, like a jelly on rollerskates. Like nearly all american cars do.

Like you say though, thats just because of the market they were designed for. In America, you go everywhere on highways, so naturally you need big, powerful and comfortable cars, that can swoosh it's way across states in days.

Whereas, in Europe, the whole place is smaller, and we have many more small twisty roads per square mile/km. So therefore we want better handling cars, and slightly less cruiser orientated models, as we have less long straight, roads.

It's a similar story with motorsport. I gather that drag racing is the biggest sport in the USA, but most other motorsports involve lots of power and few corners.
In europe, track sports are favoured more, with every man and his dog now taking their humble family run around to Thruxton and Silverstone, so naturally we want cars that can handle corners better.

It's a war between two sides. Some people want different things, it's just a matter of taste and needs. Thats all i'm saying.

[topgeartom]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by topgeartom All crap? 12" wheels? I think not. The best of British: Oh yes - that is just what the Transport Ministry wants everyone to be driving down the M5.. :roll: You guys are just lucky you still have cars in the UK.. I am sure the crown would like you to all take the bus...

I'm sure they would, thats why they put friggin bus lanes on the outsidde lanes of motorways!!
Mental idiots.

[BADMIHAI]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by topgeartom All crap? 12" wheels? I think not. The best of British: Oh yes - that is just what the Transport Ministry wants everyone to be driving down the M5.. :roll: You guys are just lucky you still have cars in the UK.. I am sure the crown would like you to all take the bus...

Now, now. Stop paraphrasing Jeremy Clarkson.

[topgeartom]

Who you reffering to?

[RC45]

Originally Posted by topgeartom Who you reffering to?

You jackass... with comments like this...

Originally Posted by topgeartom I ain't just talking about pace with regards to the porsche V corvette example. When it comes to cornering comparison, the corvette would wallow all over the place, like a jelly on rollerskates. Like nearly all american cars do.

You really have lot to learn.

Let's hope and prey you buy a 911 TT one day, and line up against a Z06 at your favourite local race track.

And then let's hope you bet your car's title on the outcome.. because you may very well end up walking home.

Be careful with sweeping ill-informed statements like your above... because when you get proved wrong - you wiull be eating humble-pie on the bus-ride home.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by topgeartom Originally Posted by RC45 you are in a dream world if you think a BMW 318i is a "race track ready car" in stock form. When the hell did I say that, you sure you read my post? I said a 3 series would walk over a american equivalent, i never ONCE mentioned anything about a bottom of the range 318 being a supercar on the track.

Well cockcheese... show me the "amercian equivalent" to the 318i that get's beaten by it?

I just saw you touting upper-end-of-the-range cars like the 535i and 745i... and I am saying lets do a true apples for apples.. I mean you are the one claiming "all" American cars suck...