motor

tekwar · 08-27-2003, 10:41 AM

im not a ferrari fan, i have been a mclaren fan since the early 90s when senna was still driving for them. so my opinions are not biased, and nor are they just my own taughts, all you have to do is follow f1 news and you will hear the same sentiments. Im also an f1 fan, i enjoy every aspect of f1 and follow it closely.

and like i said, there are many reasons why the sudden turn of the tide and in my opinion i would rate them as follows:-
a) Tires
b) Qualifying
c) Development

I cant agree with you on progressing as the major reason for the change. First of all, every team was miles behind ferrari last season. Williams who were at the beginning of the season just hoping to close the gap on ferrari have now found themselves to be by far the best car in the last few races. McLaren who have yet to launch their "super" car Mp4/18 is still up near the top challanging for wins in what is basically the same car they used last year with some modifications. Renault who have come from absolutely nowhere are now almost up to ferraris standard. Ferrari also claimed that their new car is almost 2 seconds faster than last years car. So to say that ferrari has done a bad job in developement is an issult to their team and not knowing that ferrari has one of the if not the best engineering crew in f1.

tekwar · 08-27-2003, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Jabba

Originally Posted by draak666

But it seems no Ferrari fan dares to admit that the progression of the other cars has got anything to do with it. I think it does.

not that much progression in that amount of time...that is like going from a 486 PC to a Pentium 4 in 6 months...I will give you that the other teams might be onto a Pentium 2 now at the very most...and of course Ferrari would have made no progression either I suppose...I mean what do they know about Forumula One racing anyway????

draak666 if you follow f1 for any amount of time before, you would know that getting a development advantage in f1 is not a quick thing. Like jabba said, you dont see a middle of the grid team jumping out and becoming the best team in one season. It takes years and years of development to get that advantage. For ferrari to lose such a huge advantage in one season is not on progression of the other teams alone. Renault last year who were a distant 4th in construtors is now almost on par with the "superior" ferrari in 1 season, you cant actually think that the engineers did such a marvelous job in 1 season unless they stole parts from the future and brought it in this season.

Jabba · 08-27-2003, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by tekwar

Originally Posted by Jabba

hmmmm I wonder if we will go back to the old qualifying rules then next season....hmmmm perhaps not me thinks...cant think why.....

Well bernie has been quoted as saying that "Qualifying is Boring" and that they are looking into changing it again next year. Its hard to say at this moment, but if i had to bet on it, i would say yes it will probably change again. To what, i wouldnt know, but too many of the top people, including drivers and team owners have expressed their concern over the qualifying format. The idea of having 2nd qualifying sessions on sunday mornings before the races is interesting though.

I sure hope so.... then we can see our first six times world champion....

tekwar · 08-27-2003, 10:48 AM

okie i dont even know why i bother saying that much, just go into any f1 site and read the driver and team quotes after races and qualifying and i can gurantee that you will read about them talking about the tires and how good or bad they were. And then f1 expects will mention about bridgestone playing catchup on certain tracks while maintaining and advantage on others.

tekwar · 08-27-2003, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Jabba

Originally Posted by tekwar

Originally Posted by Jabba

hmmmm I wonder if we will go back to the old qualifying rules then next season....hmmmm perhaps not me thinks...cant think why.....

Well bernie has been quoted as saying that "Qualifying is Boring" and that they are looking into changing it again next year. Its hard to say at this moment, but if i had to bet on it, i would say yes it will probably change again. To what, i wouldnt know, but too many of the top people, including drivers and team owners have expressed their concern over the qualifying format. The idea of having 2nd qualifying sessions on sunday mornings before the races is interesting though.

I sure hope so.... then we can see our first six times world champion....

hah i guess micheal "deserves" it, but i would rather see a new talent winning it like Kimi, Alonso, Montoya or Webber. Those guys are such great drivers. F1 will be in good hands when micheal decides to step down, but i dont want to see that happen until someone dethrones him while he is on top.

Jabba · 08-27-2003, 10:54 AM

I havent got a problem with being beaten fair and square...I dont like to see rules changed though just because it has become "boring to watch" because of one team winning all the time.....

tekwar · 08-27-2003, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Jabba

I havent got a problem with being beaten fair and square...I dont like to see rules changed though just because it has become "boring to watch" because of one team winning all the time.....

i agree with you on that one. I dont like schumy, but i rather he loses the championship in a "real" season not because of some silly changes in the rules. That is the true spirit of f1. Like ferrari said last year, every team goes through their ups and downs, and changing the rules just because ferrari was dominant last year was quite unfair and stupid really. Heres hoping for things to return back to normal next season and have qualifying runned on low fuel again to trully see which team has the fastest car and driver on track.

Jabba · 08-27-2003, 11:06 AM

Yes that was the only point I was trying to make all along..

I am sure most of the teams dont like the new rules either (DC) but of course we have to keep the "viewers" interested

tekwar · 08-27-2003, 11:07 AM

here are some quotes i pulled out today alone from www.f1-live.com/en if you really still find what i say hard to believe:

taken from http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlin...27011114.shtml

"Many people blame Bridgestone for the Scuderia's lack of success. Does Jean Todt agree with this opinion ? "You know it would be very unfair to give all credit to one tyre company or to say that it’s because of another tyre company that we don’t do well, because, as I said earlier, we won so many races thanks to them, so you have to see the whole picture. Probably some teams will get some advantage out of it. I think Bridgestone have been focussing more on developing the tyres with us because we are probably more the point of reference for them, and probably the other tyre company has more points of reference. But I don’t want to say that it is an advantage or disadvantage, it’s just like that.""

and
http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlin...27023454.shtml

""Next week we will go to Monza to test a new aerodynamic package and a more powerful engine," confirms Raikkonen. "We really need it because we have more or less the same car since the beginning of the year. The championship remains open even if we shouldn't be at our best at Monza. It wasn't too good for us last year. Nonetheless, we should be fine for Indianapolis and Suzuka.""

draak666 · 08-27-2003, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Jabba

Yes that was the only point I was trying to make all along..

I am sure most of the teams dont like the new rules either (DC) but of course we have to keep the "viewers" interested

Ok Jabba, let's switch positions. Suppose Coulthard in his McLaren would have dominated last season and Schumi didn't stand a chance. Would you still have watched every race? I would assume you have better things to do then.

draak666 · 08-27-2003, 12:35 PM

So Jabba says that it's impossible for an F1 car to improve this fast in one season, yet what Tekwar says is that Michelin was capable of making better tyres than Bridgestone in just two years of F1. Where's the logic in that?

Also BMW already had the best engine on the grid and Renault didn't come out of nowhere either. They already had a few good results last year.

draak666 · 08-27-2003, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by tekwar

Ferrari also claimed that their new car is almost 2 seconds faster than last years car. So to say that ferrari has done a bad job in developement is an issult to their team and not knowing that ferrari has one of the if not the best engineering crew in f1.

I never said Ferrari did a bad job. I said other teams did a better job then them.

Ferrari claiming that their new car is two seconds faster than last years car is an insult to your intelligence. You don't believe that, do you?

skelter · 08-27-2003, 05:49 PM

There is also the theory that Ferrari/Bridgestone were cheating all of 2002 and some of 2003 as well, Michelin filed a complain that Ferrari/Bridgestone were using different compounds in the front than the rears between Austria and Monaco then they suddenly dropped in performance.

Jabba · 08-27-2003, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by draak666

Ok Jabba, let's switch positions. Suppose Coulthard in his McLaren would have dominated last season and Schumi didn't stand a chance. Would you still have watched every race? I would assume you have better things to do then.

yes I would have... and did...when Schumi first joined Ferrari...

draak666 · 08-27-2003, 06:00 PM

Were you a Schumi fan before he joined Ferrari? In fact, do you consider yourself to be a Shumacher or a Ferrari fan?