First pics of the facelifted Nissan GT-R

[Dim-On]

looks nice

[T-Bird]

Oh well not a big loss I'll take that engine for my truck thank you...

[pitfield]

Originally Posted by RC45 How do you figure this?

Becuase it is more inherently unstable.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by pitfield Becuase it is more inherently unstable.

Huh?

What are you basing this opinion on? You are saying that the 997 is more unstable therefor it has more stability control?

Sorry mate - I kind of have to call "opinionated BS" on that claim without some proof.

[pitfield]

Look who's talking.

It has most of it's weight at the rear, it is inherently more unstable than a front engined car. The 911 has always had stability issues, tending to break away at the rear, gaining it a reputation as a bit of a handful. This is why Porsche have been at the forefront of stability control in order to engineer their way around the problem.

I'm not slagging off the 911 or the GT-R, I was just pointing out that it's a bit harsh to make fun of the GT-R driver for having no talent and playing too much GT just because the car comes from the same country as the game.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by pitfield Look who's talking.

What is that supposed to mean? I am calling out your incorrect opinion. You are just spouting off trash and being called out to validate your bogus point of view.

Originally Posted by pitfield It has most of it's weight at the rear, it is inherently more unstable than a front engined car.

?? Now you are saying a rearward weight bias is less stable than a frontward weight bias?

Whoa mr chassis dynamics engineer... whats your next claim going to be? That a perfect 50/50 weight distribution is best????

Originally Posted by pitfield The 911 has always had stability issues, tending to break away at the rear, gaining it a reputation as a bit of a handful.

Hmmm - I can think of 100's of front weight biased cars that do exactly the same thing... seems to me there is no difference in the "inherent" stability of either design in the final analysis...

and since you nor anyone else has sampled the new GT-R sans computer stability control... how can you make this statement??

Originally Posted by pitfield This is why Porsche have been at the forefront of stability control in order to engineer their way around the problem.

ENgineer their way around the problem would NOT denote stability control considering the fastest times are set by this car sans the "stability control" - I would argue that in skilled hands the 911 chassis dynamic is ideal.. not only that but the 997 is the most stable of all the 911 lineage even with all controls disabled...

Originally Posted by pitfield I'm not slagging off the 911 or the GT-R, I was just pointing out that it's a bit harsh to make fun of the GT-R driver for having no talent and playing too much GT just because the car comes from the same country as the game.

No its not - its simply stating the obvious.. this car has been clained that it is literally able to change water into wine and on a simple city street in the wet it is seen pranged up - meaning the car is still subject to same laws of physics as everyone else

[pitfield]

Keep your hair on.

Fast laptimes are little to do with what has happened in this picture. I'm sure a 911 is quicker around the 'ring with PSM off, but a 911, becuase the engine is at the back, has a rep for being fairly easy to spin, especially the 930 with it's laggy turbo. This is why, because of this tendancy to slide, that Porsche has got such amazing stability control.

The insinuation at the beginning of this thread was that someone couldn't drive this car without it's electronic aids engaged. I merely commented that this would also be the case with a 911, which is one of the cars stability control (in the hands of Jo Public and not on the 'ring) was created for. The comments came out faster for the GT-R because it is a car of the PS generation but would be as applicable to the 911.

Simply, don't have a oop at the poor chap who has just bent the GT-R, he'd have probably done the same to anything else.

Also, it is a fact that the 911's engine layout canmake it inherently unstable at very high speed. Thanks for getting so upset.

[RC45]

No ones losing hair or sleep - no ones upset - its just a little odd to conclude that one car has "more" stability control based on an old chassis - when the new car hasnt really been evaluated without stability control

Just keeping things honest.

[79TA]

Originally Posted by pitfield Look who's talking. It has most of it's weight at the rear, it is inherently more unstable than a front engined car. The 911 has always had stability issues, tending to break away at the rear, gaining it a reputation as a bit of a handful. This is why Porsche have been at the forefront of stability control in order to engineer their way around the problem. I'm not slagging off the 911 or the GT-R, I was just pointing out that it's a bit harsh to make fun of the GT-R driver for having no talent and playing too much GT just because the car comes from the same country as the game.

lol, I made the Gran Turismo comment in this thread, not RC.

Oh, I forgot though, everything is RC's fault

And yes, I find the comment appropriate given the ludicrous hype surrounding this car. I don't care how unstable a rear engined Porsche may or may not be or how elaborate the computer systems are that are meant to offset that. The fact remains that the GTR is seen as some sort of mystic being whose awd system makes it possible for the everyman to be comfortable at the limit of performance. Obviously, that's not true, but don't tell that to the giddy new owner of a $70k supercar.

[graywolf624]

Also, it is a fact that the 911's engine layout canmake it inherently unstable at very high speed. Thanks for getting so upset.

Not to point out the slightly missed fact here, but the 911s engine every year becomes less and less rear and more and more mid. Most of that suckers weight is over the rear axle like say a corvette engine up front rather then hanging out the ass like the early models.

The part to make fun of is nissan keeps marketing the gtr as a sort of playstation for the road thats oh so easy to drive. Thats why a gran turismo type comment comes in. Frankly Ive seen the same comments applied to wrecked evos and stis... People think they are invincible with awd, until that tree looming in the distance meets the front of their car.

[5vz-fe]

^Can't speak for GTR, but STI and EVO are indeed easy to drive. Just that ppl just don't know where to draw their limits and stop.

[graywolf624]

Can't speak for GTR, but STI and EVO are indeed easy to drive.

No arguement. That was the point:

Just that ppl just don't know where to draw their limits and stop.