Sooooo. What do you think about 600hp+ Corvette Blue Devil?

[graywolf624]

"because chevy doesn't have the international racing recognition that ford built for itself in the '60s.
"
No, instead they have more recent international racing recognition with the corvette name. Lemans, Nascar-which is sadly more popular in the US then anything else, IROC, american lemans (which Im watching at the moment), many others.

As much as I hate nascar, if I had the choice in the us of which series to run a car in to push my car to american buyers.. that would be the choice.

rd, I think it will; it seems to have brought a lot of good attention to Ford, but you never know.

I disagree here too. Most people outside of the car enthusiast groups don't even know what the gt40 is. The car enthusiast is a niche market sadly. As clarkson said in his review... people asked if it was a ferrari. :roll:

[sentra_dude]

^^^Ahh, yes...possibly so. I guess I have a pretty narrow view of some things, most of the people I hang out with are car types, and they all know about the GT, so I just assumed everyone knows about it ...

I should realize many people don't know about great cars like the GT, and sadly they probably don't even care...

[graywolf624]

Yeah.. The pumped up regular cars only work because people can afford them.

You push them to test drive the top of the line version.. Then when they can't afford it you get them in the lower version. Bait and switch...

[nthfinity]

i always enjoy reading graywolf's replys, as they are well thought out...

i have joined this discussion late, and was going to write some of the replies he aformentioned... but thats ok he beat me to it

i do, however, disagree somewhat with these replies. it is true that all of the "big 3" are having very dificult finacial dificulties, we have several members who's parents are working with the various manufacturers... at least my father (ford) and vanquish's parents (daimler chrysler, and gm?) if i recall correctly, Vanquish's mom has mapped the new Hemi, and is still disapointed with the engineering and lack of development before production in several of the new models.

a year ago, my father was describing various problems primarily in the ford freestar, Lincoln LS, and Thunderbird which he was disapointed with the problems, and lack of organization with some of the groups he was working within, namely the Freestar, Lincoln LS, and Thunderbird. Since August/September, he has been generally pleased with the system that has taken such a long time to get... in order, or understood... perhaps even honed somewhat in the process. some of it, coming directly from the Mazda devision as far as engineers working much closer to the line, and more involved in the problem solving. there are still changes in progress, but i get that he has a feel that Ford is heading closer towared profits again.

I am all for the " blue devil" idea... but expensive vettes have posed problems in the past, as only 300-400 ZR-1 examples were made in 1995 with the 70,000$ usd pricetag. but, i firmly believe this is the best vette yet...and i wish i could see a z06 body/tube frame? with this motor in it.... i am a firm believer in capitolist competition between manufacturers by having performance wars!!!

from what i understand so far with the" baid and switch" for the CTS-V is that every example i can find within 200+miles is already sold Ford doesnt yet have a competitor in this market beyond volvo's 300hp I-5 t, and the 390hp 3.9 Jag... i can only hope, but i havent yet heard anything.

is there nearly as much success as the C5 racecar in any of the non F1 ect/nascar?

the GT is a halo car in many ways, and i am totally glad that Ford had the balls, and $$ to put a production car out for the masses to fall in love with, as i most definately have.

Take a look at stats then: (of course the Ford GT stats are not final, because the times were aquired with a 'pre-production' model, but anyway) .............Z06.....GT.......RT zo6 0-60:.....3.9.....3.8 .......4.4 0-100:...8.9.....8.8 .......9.6 1/4mi:...12.0...12.2 ....12.7 topspd:174....~200 .....171 skidpad:1.01g...99g ..... .94g slalom:..67.6...69.5 ..... 68.5 60-0:....108ft...117ft ......107 mpg:.....19/28..14/21

your numbers arent a compareson within the same magazine, which is even harder to compare agaisnt differnt track surfaces, and situation of the car...
so i adjusted the 3rd set of # within Road and Track's data section... and yes, the differences are vast... expectable...... dont get me wrong, i love the Z06

as far as people knowing about the gt..... within my school, and people i meet.. .they are liking the gt more and more as they see it more, and hear more about it. a lot of these peeps are not gear heads... but they are young, wich makes them children of potential buyers

[Vansquish]

Good response nthfinity, you had me right except for the fact that my dad just retired from working for Ford for 30 years, and that my mom is a contractor, so she moves from company to company depending on where the work is. Lately she's been doing engine management for DCX vehicles, but prior to that she was doing GM.

I hope Ford is on the recovery path, but when I talk to my dad (he is still on the inside as far as information is concerned, he has lots of buddies that he talks to regularly), about it he generally has pretty dour news. All the same, I agree with the idea of the Halo car in principle, but I think a sort of balanced approach is necessary in order to attract the greatest number of buyers, it would go something like this:

1. Make at least 1 GT for every major Ford showroom in the US and do not allow the dealers to sell it until it has been there for some predetermined amount of time.

2. By having it on display every buyer that comes into the showroom and every kid who drives by and sees it in the window will stop and drool.

3. a) After they realize the coolness of the car they'll turn around and see the rest of the showroom which is filled with high-end models of the rest of the Ford product range.
b) Those high-end models have to be balanced as well...an SRT-4/WRX competitor from the Focus platform (perhaps an American version of the RS), a hi-po 500 to compete with the Magnum and 300C (the 500 definetely needs a restyling in order to do this), the iconic pony car in high output trim of course, a replacement Thunderbird perhaps?

Anyway, I don't take much stock in the theory of trickle-down economics, even as it applies to car sales...so my hope is that Ford won't depend solely on the GT to boost sales (it doesn't appear to be doing that so I'm happy at the moment hehe), even though I'm sure it will have an impact.

[graywolf624]

i always enjoy reading graywolf's replys, as they are well thought out...

Thank you

I am all for the " blue devil" idea... but expensive vettes have posed problems in the past, as only 300-400 ZR-1 examples were made in 1995 with the 70,000$ usd pricetag. but, i firmly believe this is the best vette yet...and i wish i could see a z06 body/tube frame? with this motor in it.... i am a firm believer in capitolist competition between manufacturers by having performance wars!!!

Then again, they easily sold the homeglation versions of the c5r. (If I recall there were 100 of them). Furtheremore, the zr-1 was released during a different economic time period. I realize these are limited edition cars, but the gt40 isn't going to be selling huge numbers.

s there nearly as much success as the C5 racecar in any of the non F1 ect/nascar?

I know the same people tend to win(from a friend of mine), but I have no clue what cars these are(beyond that they are generally gm or ford and are recognizable body wise as their counterparts). I've never watched a nascar race, and don't plan too.

Don't get me wrong, I love supercars as much as the next guy. However, that being said I don't see much movement in terms of performance by ford on the rest of their line which could be a big mistake. (with the exception of maybe the mazdaspeed miata. The mustang might have some potential here too, but it remains to be seen if it will be evolutionary or revolutionary over the existing car.) They need special performance versions of the focus and taurus. The gt40 isn't really going to help any of the other name plates. You would be suprised how many people don't know what companies ford owns (Some of them are obvious. Mazda, lincoln, mercury. Some of them people just don't know: jag, aston martin, volvo, land rover).

[Vansquish]

So we agree then, we need to have specialized performane models for each of the main product lines at Ford! Let's start a petition hehe.

There is the Mazdaspeed Miata and the MS Protege as well, and I've heard that sometime this year or next we're supposed to get a MS Mazda 6S as well. Of course Jaguar has its R-versions, Lincoln....well...Lincoln probably just needs a luxo-convertible, not a performance car except for a revised version of the LS with the S-type R's engine, Mercury had the Marauder (blech), and they displayed a nice-looking concept called the Messenger a couple of years ago...maybe they'll do a new Cougar or something based on the Mustang platform, Volvo has it's R-models, but they're pretty lukewarm, Aston is all about luxury and performance, so I'm not worried about them, and LR doesn't really need the performance image, though it couldn't hurt I suppose. I do realize however that most of the people with whom I converse on a daily basis here at Umich don't realize the breadth of companies under Ford's leadership and financial umbrella, and many certainly don't know about the GT and those that do seem to only know it from the NAIAS. Anyway, unfortunately the great majority of the "performance" versions of Ford-umbrella vehicles are not that distinct from their humble origins...that needs to change. You are absolutely correct about the GT not helping the other nameplates, but hopefully it'll do something for Ford itself. Only time will tell...

[RC45]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 Then again, they easily sold the homeglation versions of the c5r. (If I recall there were 100 of them).

Hhhmm.. here I thought they only ever built "one extra" prototype which reportedly sold at a Barret-Jackson auction... if you have informaiton about these 100 C5R's - please share..

Originally Posted by graywolf624 Don't get me wrong, I love supercars as much as the next guy. However, that being said I don't see much movement in terms of performance by ford on the rest of their line which could be a big mistake. (with the exception of maybe the mazdaspeed miata. The mustang might have some potential here too, but it remains to be seen if it will be evolutionary or revolutionary over the existing car.) They need special performance versions of the focus and taurus.

Without a "signature engine" lineage - like the Small Block Chevy - Ford will always play second fiddle as they keep making "expensive Mustangs" - which over the years have had various "re-invented versions of the "Ford V-8" over the years.

Seems everybody except Ford, knows how to take their engines and build great cars around them... :roll:

Sure, now they have the "new GT40" - but what exactly has Ford got for the regular working guy? GM have the Corvette that can stand toe-to-toe with the worlds best... and Ford has? nada... zilch... zippo...

Originally Posted by graywolf624 The gt40 isn't really going to help any of the other name plates.

That's true.

Originally Posted by graywolf624 You would be suprised how many people don't know what companies ford owns (Some of them are obvious. Mazda, lincoln, mercury. Some of them people just don't know: jag, aston martin, volvo, land rover).

They probably prefer it that way - imagine how "cheated" the public would feel if they really knew the Volvo they just bought was simply another Ford engined box...

The sad reality is that Ford will have to buy someone like Koeniggsegg and put their Bue Oval of "doom, gloom and boredom" on it - and that still wouldn't address the fact that Ford has yet to produce a regular model, affordable car that can go up against the worlds best.

[nthfinity]

in a great many ways i agree that there needs to be much more stock in the blue oval's fitting regular cars to have extraordinary numbers. DC has benz to thank for the upcoming supercharged AMG crossfire, which to me looks like a hit if its the right price.

one thing that GM doesnt have is the mustang priced V8 glory anymore. the GTO is comparable to the Cobra in price... yes, the corvette is absolutly amazing what it can do at the cost of what it is. however, in the past with the ZR-1, it was in teh 70,000 $USD range... as well as the previous vipers. i dont like that the Ford GT isnt in that price range, as i think it would be more reasonable... when (if) the cobra concept no longer is a concept, its expected sticker tag is 90,000$ USD...

as far as Ford GT's not selling well, from what i ve been hearing around ford is that they have more then enough buyers itching for the new ferrari hunter/killer. time will tell for sure tho.

a new performance version of the focus SVT is set for 2006, likely to be the RS badge carry-over (i honestly believe for this to be a success, it needs AWD)

i completely agree that there needs to be a new SHO... the everyman's invisible to radar sports car. my brother owns a 95 sho, and loves it for that reason.

[graywolf624]

Hhhmm.. here I thought they only ever built "one extra" prototype which reportedly sold at a Barret-Jackson auction... if you have informaiton about these 100 C5R's - please share..

This is the only link I could dredge up. That being said I know their was quite a few more then the 5 discussed in the article. (I've read other articles and discussed this with gm execs before.) The cars still are for racing only. As I said I don't remember official numbers. I can ask next month if you want. I should see my gm executive friend then.



http://www.c5registry.com/Special/c5-rforsale.htm

[RC45]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 Hhhmm.. here I thought they only ever built "one extra" prototype which reportedly sold at a Barret-Jackson auction... if you have informaiton about these 100 C5R's - please share.. This is the only link I could dredge up. That being said I know their was quite a few more then the 5 discussed in the article. (I've read other articles and discussed this with gm execs before.) The cars still are for racing only. As I said I don't remember official numbers. I can ask next month if you want. I should see my gm executive friend then. http://www.c5registry.com/Special/c5-rforsale.htm

Thats a 2000-vintage article - that's the reason I was 'ing - "customer cars" is just like the handful of F333SP's sold to race - doesn't make them street cars. Except for prototypes and such, the only C5R's are the ones you see racing. (currently and retured)

It's not like the CLK-GTR Benz that AMG/MB builds and sells. The "road going" C5R never materialized - as the formula never required it. Just as the Pro-Drive F550 is based off the road going F550 and now 575, the C5R is based off the road going C5 - neither has a "full race street version".

Had the racing series required that the C5R be a road car you may have seen them.

[graywolf624]

Thats a 2000-vintage article - that's the reason I was 'ing - "customer cars" is just like the handful of F333SP's sold to race - doesn't make them street cars. Except for prototypes and such, the only C5R's are the ones you see racing. (currently and retured)

No one ever said road going.

If I recall these cars sold for 120000. So basically if I had that type of money, I could be road racing a c5r They had some minor differences from the gm owned cars.

[novass]

I was talking to my father this weekend and he mentioned that one of the attorneys in his office has a client that owns a C5R and lives in my hometown (where my parents still live) and im very close too. Im gonna try and meet up with the guy just to get some photos and maybe some clips of it revving. Dont give me any pics or stfu business, im working on it.

[RC45]

A bunch of people have C5R engined street cars. The C5R block is the basis for most good 422/427/434ci C5's.

[graywolf624]

A bunch of people have C5R engined street cars. The C5R block is the basis for most good 422/427/434ci C5's.

There in some camaros too. This I know. The engine costs around 28000 though. Definitly not my price range. But anyway, we were talking about limited edition corvettes that sold. No one mentioned street legal.