Holden coming to North America

[nthfinity]

"The Pontiac GTO was relaunched in the United States in late 2003, based on the Holden Monaro

Bingo, based does not equate to same car, same suspension geometries, epa testing, crash testing

[graywolf624]

man.. Do you even read the links you post.. They actually say the car is different in the first few sentences:

Most recently, the current Monaro has been exported to overseas markets. It is sold, in left hand drive, in the Middle East as the Chevrolet Lumina Coupe, and in the United States as the Pontiac GTO, reviving another classic muscle car icon.

What side of the car do the brits drive on? What side of the car do the Americans drive on? Put two and two together.... what does that say about the cars?

[dm_h_2007]

Originally Posted by nthfinity "The Pontiac GTO was relaunched in the United States in late 2003, based on the Holden Monaro Bingo, based does not equate to same car

Yes but Wiki is VERY good at listing out every single difference between models and yet they listed none. Again, come back when you have a link to ANYTHING credible that lists any differences to suspension or anything else.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by dm_h_2007 5 links of "amature information" (Top Gear is now considered Amature?) still beats no links at all. Find me even a tiny little scrap of info to support what you are saying and I will be impressed.

Find me a suspension engineer, or mechanical engineer at Top Gear magazine, they are professional journalists; nothing more, nothing less.

[nthfinity]

how about this, find me absolute proof that they are the same?

$8,000,000 was spent bringing the GTO to the USA, if it were the same car, much much much less would've been spent. its 95% same, sure... id say thats a fair estimate

[dm_h_2007]

Originally Posted by nthfinity Originally Posted by dm_h_2007 5 links of "amature information" (Top Gear is now considered Amature?) still beats no links at all. Find me even a tiny little scrap of info to support what you are saying and I will be impressed. Find me a suspension engineer, or mechanical engineer at Top Gear magazine, they are professional journalists; nothing more, nothing less.

Better yet why don't you find a single engineer, or mechanical engineer IN THE WORLD that can list any real difference between the American and European versions of this car!!

[dm_h_2007]

Originally Posted by nthfinity how about this, find me absolute proof that they are the same? $8,000,000 was spent bringing the GTO to the USA, if it were the same car, much much much less would've been spent. its 95% same, sure... id say thats a fair estimate

Dude you can try to turn this around all you want but to anyone else reading all of this is very easy to see that you are the one making claims without a single link or shred of proof to back it up what so ever. If you want to question the validity of Clarkson or Top Gear I'm all for it!! But you are going to have to bring something to this convo other than your idle speculation!

[graywolf624]

Better yet why don't you find a single engineer, or mechanical engineer IN THE WORLD that can list any real difference between the American and European versions of this car!!

Hello.. Mcfly..
Right hand versus left hand drive. What side the steering wheel is on seems like a real difference to me.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by dm_h_2007 Originally Posted by nthfinity Originally Posted by dm_h_2007 5 links of "amature information" (Top Gear is now considered Amature?) still beats no links at all. Find me even a tiny little scrap of info to support what you are saying and I will be impressed. Find me a suspension engineer, or mechanical engineer at Top Gear magazine, they are professional journalists; nothing more, nothing less. Better yet why don't you find a single engineer, or mechanical engineer IN THE WORLD that can list any real difference between the American and European versions of this car!!

Fuel tank, suspension gemotries (need to make up the differnce in weight bias due to tank) LHD conversion, EPA conversion, Crash testing

All obvious, why do you need an engineer to tell you the obvious?

[dm_h_2007]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 Better yet why don't you find a single engineer, or mechanical engineer IN THE WORLD that can list any real difference between the American and European versions of this car!! Hello.. Mcfly.. Right hand versus left hand drive. What side the steering wheel is on seems like a real difference to me.

Thats a good start!! There is one difference we can all agree on. Some of the European models have LH drive. You have anything else? I think we all know a lot of cars are made in both left and right had drive that have no other real differences.

[dm_h_2007]

Originally Posted by nthfinity Originally Posted by dm_h_2007 Originally Posted by nthfinity Originally Posted by dm_h_2007 5 links of "amature information" (Top Gear is now considered Amature?) still beats no links at all. Find me even a tiny little scrap of info to support what you are saying and I will be impressed. Find me a suspension engineer, or mechanical engineer at Top Gear magazine, they are professional journalists; nothing more, nothing less. Better yet why don't you find a single engineer, or mechanical engineer IN THE WORLD that can list any real difference between the American and European versions of this car!! Fuel tank, suspension gemotries (need to make up the differnce in weight bias due to tank) LHD conversion, EPA conversion, Crash testing All obvious, why do you need an engineer to tell you the obvious?

Got a link to that?

[dm_h_2007]

I have to be honest here, what are we even arguing about again?? Let me get this strait, you guys are saying the American 6.0 GTO is better than the American 5.7 GTO even though the European 5.7 Monaro might be better than the European 6.0 Monaro??

Again, prove this with some links.

[graywolf624]

Thats a good start!! There is one difference we can all agree on. Some of the European models have LH drive. You have anything else? I think we all know a lot of cars are made in both left and right had drive that have no other real differences.

Uh.. no...
When you switch the drive train from one side to the other there are significant differences. The location of the transmision, the steering column, the steering boxes, etc. Right there you've got massive changes.

Then theres the fuel tank. IT was well publicized that the fuel tank for the gto is located in a place different from any other market.. They spent a fortune on it.

Then their is the external body.. only a blind man wouldn't know thats been changed.

Then theres the engine options.. No 500 hp gto here. No 5.7 for sale.

So why for one second do you think that a 2004 model US gto has the same suspension and is the same as a 2005 or 6 UK GTO 5.7? Even the side you drive the car on will change where the weight is in the car and thus the performance. You can tell that with any simple race car design program.

[graywolf624]

How about this one:

The major tragedy in retrofitting the GTO to U.S. specs is trunk room. Because our fuel tank requirements are more heavily influenced by lawyers in search of Jaguar payments, the GTO's tank has been moved behind the rear seats, where it swallows almost half the available space, leaving the GTO with enough room for a couple of roll-ons or possibly two sets of golf bags.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...4&article=6594

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by dm_h_2007 Originally Posted by nthfinity Originally Posted by dm_h_2007 Originally Posted by nthfinity Originally Posted by dm_h_2007 5 links of "amature information" (Top Gear is now considered Amature?) still beats no links at all. Find me even a tiny little scrap of info to support what you are saying and I will be impressed. Find me a suspension engineer, or mechanical engineer at Top Gear magazine, they are professional journalists; nothing more, nothing less. Better yet why don't you find a single engineer, or mechanical engineer IN THE WORLD that can list any real difference between the American and European versions of this car!! Fuel tank, suspension gemotries (need to make up the differnce in weight bias due to tank) LHD conversion, EPA conversion, Crash testing All obvious, why do you need an engineer to tell you the obvious? Got a link to that?

"think mcfly, think!"

LMFAO
:ROLMAO:
:spaz:

government regulations mang, its kind of a no brainer

fuel tank and revised suspension (minimally due to revised fuel tank) is a no brainer

LHD, you conced, but call it "easy"

EPA emissions testing; rigorous, sure GM are experts, but this is nessisary; and altogether very different to Encap IV... no brainer

Crash testing: every car in the US that isn't kit built, imported in numbers over 300 per year, and for show + display requires full Ann Arbor Gov. DOT crash testing, GM had modified the car to pass side saftey by including a steel torsional bar... this regulation doesn't exist in europe, uk, or austrailia.. again, a no brainer