Holden coming to North America

[Mattk]

How big is that Aussie Ford compard to it?

The Ford Falcon is around the same size. The new Commodore is said to be a better car to drive than the Falcon. Otherwise, there are almost identical numbers of each car sold every year, they have similar levels of equipment, similar performance. There's really not much reason why you'd pick one over the other, but Australians tend to choose because of sentimental reasons. I like Falcons.

I'm pretty sure this G8 will sell better than the GTO. It enters a market where there is a place for such a car.

[wasaabi92]

I'm slightly biased. I really don't even want GM to bother with the G8 (possibly the lamest name EVER given to a muscle car), because nobody cared when they brought up the Monaro/GTO to the States. Because I'm pretty sure about 3 were sold in the past 3 years, and 2 were sold with automatics. Oddly enough the only manual sold came with the dumbed down "five-seven". Go figure.

Really though... GM is late to the game again! Their stopgap was, what? A GXP Grand Prix and an Impala ... SS. Yeah.

What I'd LOVE to see is the Ford Falcon brought up from down under with both the Boss 302 and the Turbo Six. Those cars are simply too cool.

I dunno if y'all caught on but I'd much rather have Ford succeed (even though its in the same predicament at GM) and watch GM crash and burn. Again.

[dm_h_2007]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 ^^^They don't sell the GTO in the UK man.. Clarkson has not tested it. They sell the Monoro. Same car with some visual changes and suspension changes. I haven't missed any episodes, I have everyone for the last 7+ years. Hell they have a 500 hp version of the Monoro now according to top gear magazine.. There is no such gto. Man its even worse then that I see.. They dont sell a 5.7 l gto in the US, haven't since 2005. They still sell Manaros with ls1s. IT is a great engine, I have one afterall, but whether the 5.7 l 2003 cars can compete with the 6.0 2004 cars that cost the same exact price in the US.. is not proved by a british magazine with different engine/suspension combinations.

Yes of course he testeted the "Monoro" its the very same car. I also have all top Gear on my computer. Don't even try to argue with me on Top Gear, I have seen them all!!

Here is the first review of the 5.7 -

YouTube

YouTube

They tested the 6.0 "Vauxhall Monaro" -

YouTube

YouTube

And they even did a 3rd test (James May) in Series 5, Episode 1. -

You Tube

You Tube

You clearly dont konw what you are talking about because first you said there was an 80HP difference between the 5.7 and 6.0 and now you are trying to claim he has never tested the car on Top Gear!

And I know they stopped selling the 5.7 when the 6.0 came out. That is why I said people are going to be looking for used 5.7's for a long time because it was actually the better car of the two!!!

Edit: Oh and Hammond tests it even a 4th time in series 6, episode 11 which includes a Stig lap!! (it did the same time as the WRX STi) The GTO in its various forms has been tested at least 4 times on Top Gear!! -

You Tube

You Tube

And here are the Clarkson quotes about the 6.0 from his Times Column -

"Sadly, all is not sweetness and light, because the Monaro is sold in America as a Pontiac GTO and the new version was designed specifically for Uncle Sam. That means it’s all gone a bit soft. And for some extraordinary reason they’ve moved the 60-litre fuel tank to a point directly above the rear axle. This means the car’s handling will change depending on how much fuel you have on board, and also that the boot is nowhere near as big as it should be."

"It all sounds great but there’s one problem. You can still buy the original, harder, 5.7 litre car. Yes, this only offers up 349bhp compared with the 6 litre’s 398bhp. But you’re pressed to spot that difference on the road.

And here’s the clincher. The 5.7 is only £29,000. Put simply, there is no better bargain on the market today. "

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/art...6285_2,00.html

[TopGearNL]

Originally Posted by Mattk How big is that Aussie Ford compard to it? The Ford Falcon is around the same size. The new Commodore is said to be a better car to drive than the Falcon. Otherwise, there are almost identical numbers of each car sold every year, they have similar levels of equipment, similar performance. There's really not much reason why you'd pick one over the other, but Australians tend to choose because of sentimental reasons. I like Falcons. I'm pretty sure this G8 will sell better than the GTO. It enters a market where there is a place for such a car.

Oh allright!

Im a big Aussie car fan mate (with an australian accent)

[graywolf624]

Yes of course he testeted the "Monoro" its the very same car. I also have all top Gear on my computer. Don't even try to argue with me on Top Gear, I have seen them all!!

And thats the point.. It isn't quite the same car... For the very same reason you can still buy the 5.7 in the UK.. or a 500 hp version of the same car (There is no gto vxr equivelent). They have different option ranges and suspension setups (spring rates and shock rebound) for different countries. Why? Because each country has different tastes. They also have different color pallets and body setups.
So no.. Top gear has not tested the 5.7l gto or the 6l gto.. In fact.. Based on what I see on the gto forums (I have a name and I use to read alot), most people trade up for the 6.0.. There is no one talking about superiority of the old versus the new. You stand alone based on a car that isn't even sold in the same configuration or body. GM does that with all their cars. In fact all auto makers do.

He has never tested the car.. Yet again.. There are differences between the two for tastes of each customer.

[dm_h_2007]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 Yes of course he testeted the "Monoro" its the very same car. I also have all top Gear on my computer. Don't even try to argue with me on Top Gear, I have seen them all!! And thats the point.. It isn't quite the same car... For the very same reason you can still buy the 5.7 in the UK.. or a 500 hp version of the same car (There is no gto vxr equivelent). They have different option ranges and suspension setups (spring rates and shock rebound) for different countries. Why? Because each country has different tastes. They also have different color pallets and body setups. So no.. Top gear has not tested the 5.7l gto or the 6l gto.. In fact.. Based on what I see on the gto forums (I have a name and I use to read alot), most people trade up for the 6.0.. There is no one talking about superiority of the old versus the new. You stand alone based on a car that isn't even sold in the same configuration or body. GM does that with all their cars. In fact all auto makers do. He has never tested the car.. Yet again.. There are differences between the two for tastes of each customer.

Oh come on give me a break. Just admit you were very wrong and give it up. You are just grasping at straws, the fact is it is the very same car and the Top Gear cast loves both cars but in general likes the 5.7 better than the 6.0. Period!

[graywolf624]

Oh come on. Give me a break. Just admit you were very wrong and give it up.

How am I wrong? Ive been telling you for 2 pages it isn't the same car. Its the same chasis and basic design, but they change spring rates, tires, engines, etc to meet a countries tastes. You cant use top gear as an arguement.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by dm_h_2007 Originally Posted by graywolf624 Yes of course he testeted the "Monoro" its the very same car. I also have all top Gear on my computer. Don't even try to argue with me on Top Gear, I have seen them all!! And thats the point.. It isn't quite the same car... For the very same reason you can still buy the 5.7 in the UK.. or a 500 hp version of the same car (There is no gto vxr equivelent). They have different option ranges and suspension setups (spring rates and shock rebound) for different countries. Why? Because each country has different tastes. They also have different color pallets and body setups. So no.. Top gear has not tested the 5.7l gto or the 6l gto.. In fact.. Based on what I see on the gto forums (I have a name and I use to read alot), most people trade up for the 6.0.. There is no one talking about superiority of the old versus the new. You stand alone based on a car that isn't even sold in the same configuration or body. GM does that with all their cars. In fact all auto makers do. He has never tested the car.. Yet again.. There are differences between the two for tastes of each customer. Oh come on. Give me a break. Just admit you were very wrong and give it up.

actually, a lot of market research and engineering is done with each of the Big 3, and likely all auto makers with variance in suspension geometries for different countries, and even different states... go figure.

[dm_h_2007]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 Oh come on. Give me a break. Just admit you were very wrong and give it up. How am I wrong? Ive been telling you for 2 pages it isn't the same car. Its the same chasis and basic design, but they change spring rates, tires, engines, etc to meet a countries tastes. You cant use top gear as an arguement.

Go read clarkson's column!! He even says the 6.0 VAUXHALL MONARO VX-R is the very same car as the 6.0 Pontiac GTO!!! And is soft because of it, and he was talking about the one for sale in the UK!!!

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by dm_h_2007 Originally Posted by graywolf624 Oh come on. Give me a break. Just admit you were very wrong and give it up. How am I wrong? Ive been telling you for 2 pages it isn't the same car. Its the same chasis and basic design, but they change spring rates, tires, engines, etc to meet a countries tastes. You cant use top gear as an arguement. Go read clarkson's column!! He even says the 6.0 VAUXHALL is the very same car as the 6.0 Pontiac GTO!!! And is soft because of it, and he was talking about the one for sale in the UK!!!

Citing Clarkson on an authority on engineering isn't a very good argument, you know LOL

[graywolf624]

Go read clarkson's column!! He even says the 6.0 VAUXHALL MONARO VX-R is the very same car as the 6.0 Pontiac GTO!!! And is soft because of it, and he was talking about the one for sale in the UK!!!

Your citing the man that refered to the new C6's engine as a 5.7L. Care to reconsider your source?

[dm_h_2007]

Originally Posted by nthfinity Originally Posted by dm_h_2007 Originally Posted by graywolf624 Oh come on. Give me a break. Just admit you were very wrong and give it up. How am I wrong? Ive been telling you for 2 pages it isn't the same car. Its the same chasis and basic design, but they change spring rates, tires, engines, etc to meet a countries tastes. You cant use top gear as an arguement. Go read clarkson's column!! He even says the 6.0 VAUXHALL is the very same car as the 6.0 Pontiac GTO!!! And is soft because of it, and he was talking about the one for sale in the UK!!! Citing Clarkson on an authority on engineering isn't a very good argument, you know LOL

Well I gave you guys 5 different links. Until you can give me one single link that supports some big difference in the 5.7 European Monaro and the 5.7 American GTO, and the 6.0 European Monaro and the 6.0 American GTO, you guys are pathetic.

If there is a real difference and you can prove it with links I will be glad to admit I'm wrong, but until I see some links you guys are just spinning your wheels.

[dm_h_2007]

Here is a yet another quote that supports that they are the same -

"Most recently, the current Monaro has been exported to overseas markets. It is sold, in left hand drive, in the Middle East as the Chevrolet Lumina Coupe, and in the United States as the Pontiac GTO, reviving another classic muscle car icon. It is also sold in the United Kingdom as the Vauxhall Monaro where it won Top Gear's best muscle car award.

Complaints about the Pontiac GTO's sedate styling from American consumers saw the addition of two bonnet scoops in 2005, with the VZ series Monaro, to recall the later muscle-car variants of the late 1960s' models. The bonnet scoops serve no functional purpose. In the eyes of the Australian press, the scoops have spoiled the lines, while the American media seem to accept them. The 2005 and 2006 GTO also received a Gen IV 6.0 L engine putting out 400 hp (298 kW); the Australian HSV GTO coupe got a similar engine in its Z series; and Vauxhall launched this as the Monaro VXR in the UK.

Holden's PR says that the scoops recall the HT Monaro.

Third generation Monaro production finished on December 13, 2005. The last Pontiac GTO was produced with little fanfare on June 17, 2006. HSV GTO coupes may also continue longer than the Monaro itself. Like the earlier CV8-R models CV8-Zs had extra features including a metallic orange colour, special wheels and a sunroof as standard; the same price was charged for the CV8-Zs as the prior VZ CV8s."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Monaro

And another -

"The Pontiac GTO was relaunched in the United States in late 2003, based on the Holden Monaro. The Monaro is a 2 door coupe variant of the Australian developed VT/VX Holden Commodore. The Commodore was in turn developed by enlarging the European designed 1994 Opel Omega B, which was marketed in its original form in the U.S. from 1997 to 2001 as the Cadillac Catera.

The revival was prompted by former GM chairman Bob Lutz, who drove a Holden Monaro while on a business trip in Australia.

The GTO was produced in the suburb of Elizabeth, South Australia, and is equipped with the Corvette's LS1 ('04) and LS2 ('05-'06) V8 engine with a choice of a 6-speed manual transmission or a 4-speed automatic. The same model is sold in the United Kingdom as a Vauxhall and in the Middle East as a Chevrolet Lumina SS. GM North America made a deal with Holden for them to produce a maximum of 18,000 vehicles per year starting in late 2003 and going through to the end of the 2006 model year. 18,000 was the production limit for the model at the Australian assembly plant.

Despite high expectations by GM to sell 18,000 units, the Monaro-based GTO received a lukewarm reception in the U.S. It was frequently derided for its conservative styling, which many critics felt was too anonymous to befit either the GTO heritage or the current car's performance. Aside from the styling, the GTO faithful were further insulted by GM's failure to present a U.S.-built car that incorporated any design lineage from the muscular icons of the 1960s and 1970s. Given the newly revived muscle car climate, it was also overshadowed by the Chrysler 300, the Dodge Charger, and the new Ford Mustang. Sales were also limited because of dealer tactics, such as initially charging large markups and denying requests for test drives of the vehicle. By the end of the year, the 2004s were selling with significant discounts. Sales were 13,569 of 15,728 cars for 2004."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_GTO

[nthfinity]

basically the same car does not equate to the "same" car. for differences on the suspension set up, it was written about in 2004 when the GTO came to the US; i'm sure there are some magazine scans of it somewhere.

still, where do you think 8,000,000$ was spent on bringng the car over here? certainly not soley on the fuel tank

5 links of amature information doesn't equate to an engineering certainty, now does it?

[dm_h_2007]

Originally Posted by nthfinity basically the same car does not equate to the "same" car. for differences on the suspension set up, it was written about in 2004 when the GTO came to the US; i'm sure there are some magazine scans of it somewhere. still, where do you think 8,000,000$ was spent on bringng the car over here? certainly not soley on the fuel tank 5 links of amature information doesn't equate to an engineering certainty, now does it?

5 links of "amature information" (Top Gear is now considered Amature?) still beats no links at all. Find me even a tiny little scrap of info to support what you are saying and I will be impressed.