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Old 12-27-2007, 09:31 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by nthfinity View Post
Don't want to respond to him w/out responding to what he said, that is useless trolling. You have opinions we may agree and disagree on; lets not just stir the pot, and name call. Thanks
So wait let me get this straight...He basically starts name calling by stating that Im stupid with the "brain at room temperature" comment then calls me a "fanboy" because my viewpoint is different than his but Im stirring the pot, name calling, the bad guy and a troll...LMAO....And now he states I should be banned becasue I dont want to waste my time arguing with him??....You guys are really funny......Look ban me if you want I could careless I assure you This is basically the way he moderated in the past..Agree with me or else...I dont care to get into an ignorant discussion with RC45 because thats where it always goes in my experience with him...You call it trolling I call it not wasting my time with someone that cant understand a simple thing like a Vette/Viper comparo or has the ability to abstain for condesending rebuttals...If he gets at me on that level I will respond in kind....Ive got nothing against you Nthinfinity but try to be fair...Since you asked Ill respond...He can take it however he wants

Think about it folks...They have only been going toe to toe, being compared from every major magazine all around the world since the Vipers inception..I can show magazine article after article with Vette/Viper yet acccording to RC45 it wont happen with the 08 ACR vs ZR1...Not to mention the Gen II ACR got compared to the Z06/Porsche/Mustang etc....Cars of similar performance will always be compared regardless of if they are in the same class or not....Performance is performance...This is the ultimate Vette vs the ultimate Viper...Showdown inevitable regardless of class-ism ..

It just doesnt make sence to argue with someone that doesnt see the regular Viper is bare bones street car but still gets compared to Porsches/Z06 etc.....The ACR is still a STREET car...More of a street car than the GT3 as it doesnt come with a rollcage[Ive read the GT3 comes with a roll cage correct me if im wrong] It can have all the creature comforts of the regular Viper if the owners chooses...A simple look at old magazine will tell you who will win the overall title between the two...The Vette duh...Or any car compared to the Viper...the Mustang GT500 won against the Viper eventhought it got crushed in performance.....The Subjective will always go to the Vette but they will be compared regardless of what RC feels...Some of you should think for yourselves...There is much history that tells you they will be compared in the magazines.....To quote RC "anyone with a brain thats room temperature can see that".....
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:40 PM   #197
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Not to mention the Gen II ACR got compared to the Z06/Porsche/Mustang etc
Your so close but just not quite there.
The ACR will be compared to the Z06.. And it will better the Z06. IT wont be compared to the ZR1 for one reason.. The same reason without testing the car you know the ACR will be the better track car.. Because GM has a completely different target audience. I will bet there will be a comparo.. but I also will bet it will spell out in bold letters at the begining that they are two completely different types of cars so your decision isnt which is better.

The reality is.. if this was a fanboy arguement it would be excuses after the fact when the ZR1 loses. Since we are talking about it before it even happens that means we are all admiting it isnt designed to win that type of battle... Otherwise the fanboy would say the viper would get its ass beat.... Design versus excuse... JMHO

You call it trolling I call it not wasting my time with someone that cant understand a simple thing like a Vette/Viper comparo or has the ability to abstain for condesending rebuttals...If he gets at me on that level I will respond in kind....
I have no dog in this thing here but I do feel the need to comment. Neither of you are being called out for mudslinging. If Issac called you out for slinging names and not RC45 Id actually side with you. However this is not what was sighted. What was cited is that you openly admited to not reading Pauls response.

People get hot in arguements.. sometimes they name call. This place has a rather high tolerance for that (regardless of you or I's opinion on that). It does not have a high tolerance for doing it without even reading the other persons post. Its a suttle nuance but one you should pick up on. Stick around.. I may not agree with you, but youve entertained me through this boring holiday.
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Last edited by graywolf624; 12-27-2007 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 12-30-2007, 03:29 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by graywolf624 View Post
Your so close but just not quite there.
The ACR will be compared to the Z06.. And it will better the Z06. IT wont be compared to the ZR1 for one reason.. The same reason without testing the car you know the ACR will be the better track car.. [b]Because GM has a completely different target audience. I will bet there will be a comparo.. but I also will bet it will spell out in bold letters at the begining that they are two completely different types of cars so your decision isnt which is better.
I appreciate the effort to mediate...We are all on the same page with this aspect..I dont think you a guys are getting me...The Z06 is also a different target audience than the regular Viper since day one..But yet they are constantly compared though they have different missions...Why??Performance...Any cars with similar performance will be compared to each other..Its just the way it is....That is all Im saying...It will happen dispite some saying it wont...

Most articles between these two make that stipulation very evident yet the comparison is made because they offer similar performance period but go about it different ways. I cant go along with the ACR is aimed at the Z06 because that is not what Dodge made it for..Why would they? The 08 already has eclipsed the Z06 performance as most of the recent tests have shown...The 08 was the responce to the Z06..For anyone to think otherwise boggles my mind...Teh ACR was Dodges responce to the ZR1 as SRT stated on Viperforums...It doesnt matter if GM or whoever thinks the ACR is aimed at....They are different no one disputes that but they are both still streetcars with potentially similar performance numbers so they will be compared even if there is a caveat in the article about class etc..Really dont know why that is so hard to digest..


Originally Posted by greywolf624 View Post
The reality is.. if this was a fanboy arguement it would be excuses after the fact when the ZR1 loses. Since we are talking about it before it even happens that means we are all admiting it isnt designed to win that type of battle... Otherwise the fanboy would say the viper would get its ass beat.... Design versus excuse... JMHO
Im not the one that used "fanboy" first or got at anyone first... ..I basically flipped his argument to show him with his logic hes a fanboy too..I didnt get at anyone in this thread until I was gotten at..Im well aware of how things go with RC45 and buddies[refering to the past]...Im not new here and have had a nice little fight or two with him and his fans before...So my choice to not respond was to avoid the nonsense that has ensued as he started bringing up his facts that had nothing to do with point I was trying to make.


Originally Posted by greywolf624 View Post
I have no dog in this thing here but I do feel the need to comment. Neither of you are being called out for mudslinging. If Issac called you out for slinging names and not RC45 Id actually side with you. However this is not what was sighted. What was cited is that you openly admited to not reading Pauls response.
My responce was aimed at RC mostly as he called me names, wants to fight, said Im trolling, reported me lol[so kindergarten], and as usual flys way off the handle than the situation dictates...RC lives his life an internet fight at a time lol. Back in the day we had a few good ones lol..I could careless about internet fights nowadays. ..I usually avoid people that overact or show signs of unstability especially over such a trivial topic....As I said to Nthinfinity[Isaac?] Ive got no problem with him but to tell me Im trolling because I refused to get into a stupid fight, knowing who I m dealing with, is crazy..Fight or die lol..Is this Internet Fight Club? Thats how it came across to me. And then RC goes and tells on me causing Nth to come and scold me...LMAO

Originally Posted by greywolf624 View Post
People get hot in arguements.. sometimes they name call. This place has a rather high tolerance for that (regardless of you or I's opinion on that). It does not have a high tolerance for doing it without even reading the other persons post. Its a suttle nuance but one you should pick up on. Stick around.. I may not agree with you, but youve entertained me through this boring holiday.
Well I guess Im no longer Jabbasworld/Motorworld material because Im not going to waste my time with someone like RC45 that cant have a "debate" as he calls it, without resorting to childish, ignorant tactics...Im a carguy period..Dont care for trivial fights..Ive got nothing to prove...If Im wrong about something i dotn mind being told so..But if you going to get at me condesendingly Im going to attempt to ignore you now...If you push me Ill respond in kind as Im sure RC knows from our last few battles...


Ive got no problem with anyone else and Id soon forget this nonsense...I hold no grudges @ RC but I do remember how you get down ..You are not going to get everyone to agree with you on everything bro..You cant impose your will on everyone by talking down to them, calling a moderator etc. Everyones got an opinion...

If I dont ever see a ZR1 vs ACR comparo Ill come back here make a post and say you were right....Until then sit back grab a beer and exchange ideas...Your pressure will go down and you might actually get someone to agree with you..Now you dont have to read this long azz post..I promise i wont report you as a troll. happy new year Jab er Motorworld
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Old 12-30-2007, 04:32 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by nthfinity View Post
if by "one off" you mean nearly 4000 of them, then yeah, its "one off" (more produced then planned ZR-1 or ACR production BTW)
Yes, but it's not like Ford's ever going to make Ford GT Mk. II. I meant to say that Chevrolet defined itself with the Corvette as Dodge hopes to do with the Viper. And they keep making new ones to have that on-going halo effect. It'd be great if Ford does that too, but it doesn't.

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten View Post
If I dont ever see a ZR1 vs ACR comparo Ill come back here make a post and say you were right....Until then sit back grab a beer and exchange ideas...Your pressure will go down and you might actually get someone to agree with you..
Will you let this go? Even if some magazine does ZR1 vs ACR comparo, it's not like they're right in doing it. I mean, Motor Trend's a popular magazine (I don't know why) but it doesn't mean that it's right, i mean, heck, they've been giving COTY titles to Civics and Camrys.

And you're trying to argue with RC. You should know by now that it's pointless. Not that he's just unstoppable, you should also know that he's often right.

Last edited by HeilSvenska; 12-30-2007 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 12-30-2007, 04:35 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by SnakeBitten View Post
And then RC goes and tells on me causing Nth to come and scold me...LMAO
I didnt need to report anything - mods read the posts.

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten View Post
Dont care for trivial fights..Ive got nothing to prove...If Im wrong about something i dotn mind being told so..But if you going to get at me condesendingly Im going to attempt to ignore you now...If you push me Ill respond in kind as Im sure RC knows from our last few battles...
You're just pissed because your "opinion" might be flawed - you haven't changed since your first posts on JW - you state something then argue about it till the cars run dry - even when you are mistaken I simply provided you with some facts you may have overlooked - like say the real target audience of each car or the realpower delivery or each car etc

I am not interested in "changing your opinion" - but if you make a "statement of fact" don't expect it to go unchallanged either

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten View Post
Teh ACR was Dodges responce to the ZR1 as SRT stated on Viperforums...It doesnt matter if GM or whoever thinks the ACR is aimed at....
Then the folks at SRT are as dumb if not dumber than the folks at ViperForums for being sucked into the farce.

Why would Dodge spend all the effort and money and time to "counter a car" that it will never meet in competition?

The ACR - American Club Racer - is a "street legal" competition ready car - the ZR1 is a "street legal" street car. Nothing more.

If Dodge wanted to tale on the ZR1 as the ZR1, then they would have put a blower on the V10 and made 720bhp stock.

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten View Post
They are different no one disputes that but they are both still streetcars with potentially similar performance numbers so they will be compared even if there is a caveat in the article about class etc..Really dont know why that is so hard to digest..
So - according to your logic then, an article that compares the Ferraroi Enzo to the Posche GT2 is a legitimate one - even with a caveat?

If Porsche never produced the CGT, then there would still be no grounds for the comparison.

BTW - how will the ACR and ZR1 be similar in performance? Sure they both go faster than 8mph and stop in less than 1000ft - but thats about it.

They ar enot going to have similar 1/4 mile times, or similar 0-100 times of even similar 0-200mph times.. or similar top speeds or even similar handling characterisitics.

They will only have similar prices - and even that is debatable.

The only ones who will be 'comparing" the ACR and the ZR1 will be pre-pubescent fan-boys, the motor journos who write articles for them - and Viper lovers

Originally Posted by HeilSvenska View Post
And you're trying to argue with RC. You should know by now that it's pointless. Not that he's just unstoppable, you should also know that he's often right.
The scariest thing is though, its in the few exchanges where I have been right that people get the most defensive and "offended" - the many times I was wrong and had just been taking the antagonistic "devil's advocate view (by request I might add)" people rolled over and walked...

So that has to be worth something at least

Last edited by RC45; 12-30-2007 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 12-30-2007, 06:24 PM   #201
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Well I guess Im no longer Jabbasworld/Motorworld material because Im not going to waste my time with someone like RC45 that cant have a "debate" as he calls it, without resorting to childish, ignorant tactics...Im a carguy period..Dont care for trivial fights..Ive got nothing to prove...If Im wrong about something i dotn mind being told so..But if you going to get at me condesendingly Im going to attempt to ignore you now...If you push me Ill respond in kind as Im sure RC knows from our last few battles...
If you don't want to waste your time then just drop the discussion. Instead you interjected again and made it seem directly confrontational but ignoring the actual topic. Sometimes its better to just let things go. As you said its just the internet.. Its not like someone wins an award for last word on the internet.

RC has a very confrontational devils advocate style, sometimes that can be viewed in a bad light. If your viewing it in a bad light.. walk to the next topic and let it go.
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Old 12-30-2007, 08:44 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by SnakeBitten View Post
Im not going to waste my time with someone like RC45 that cant have a "debate" as he calls it, without resorting to childish, ignorant tactics...
I asked you to drop it, why didn't you?
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Old 12-31-2007, 02:00 PM   #203
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I guess my responses to this thread somehow have been confused by some lurkers to that I like or love the ZR1 and I somehow must therefore hate the Viper (ACR or not) because I am in love with the Vette.

This is rather odd, as I actually specifically said a number of times that I dont like the ZR1.

The primary point of discussion was whether the ZR1 and ACR would/should/could be compared as class partners, not which was was "better" than the other - or which one would win...

Each is the pinacle car in their own right - of their own class... having witnessed many Vipers first hand, shared track space and time wth them, won and lost roll ons against them and even having driven a few - why would I think any differently?

Why the confusion? Why the immidiate assumption that the moment I comment about a Corvette it must be a "Corvette is best the rest are rubbish" statement - even though it never is.

Last edited by RC45; 12-31-2007 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 12-31-2007, 02:54 PM   #204
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TBH, the ZR1 could've been a lot more then what it is... I don't see Cerberus making the Viper after the SRT10 is done, The ACR is Icing on the cake of a nice history of a US production world beating sports car. Corvette is over a 1/2 century old, and sales are still strong. Ford is building a new "fast car" likely seen in 2012 on the street.

The bar is set incredibly high, let us hope that legislation doesn't change the scene so the manufacturers can reach the bar
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Old 12-31-2007, 06:59 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by nthfinity View Post
TBH, the ZR1 could've been a lot more then what it is... I don't see Cerberus making the Viper after the SRT10 is done, The ACR is Icing on the cake of a nice history of a US production world beating sports car. Corvette is over a 1/2 century old, and sales are still strong. Ford is building a new "fast car" likely seen in 2012 on the street.

The bar is set incredibly high, let us hope that legislation doesn't change the scene so the manufacturers can reach the bar
Cerberus have already killed off the internal Viper racing program and that means bubkas in the way of privateer support for the ACR's and Competition Coupes - right?So maybe the death of the Viper is not close behind - that will be a shame.
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