Read em and weep...

[graywolf624]

So while Ferrari and Porsche wich are relativly small companies yet very sucsesfull cuz of what they are,(yes I know they are not that small at least not Ferrari, but compared ) makes cars for alot of classes to be "the best" in their class and pretty much are on the podium in every class they puts one in..... GM who are a enourmous company only manage to make one car, and this are not a competitor to the others in anything apart from the performance they have managed to get out of it in the last years, earlier vettes have been a joke performance wise IMO.....and its a known fact that American car companies have been to Europe to "learn" about handling

Not to throw gas on the fire.. But brembo... One could also argue the europeans have been to america to learn about engines, given how many of them use american engines in their cars.

Gm makes plenty of good cars in other classes, but only one for performance. But if you want to focus on that level, then you need to think more fiat as the controling interest in ferrari as compared to gm controlling interest in corvette. Then they look roughly similar.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Sir_GT Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by saadie Originally Posted by Ronin005 im not trying to be funny but where do the Enzo and Zonda go on that list?? and the CCR Probably exactly where cars that cost MILLIONS of dollars should go Well, I'm not trying to be funny, but wouldn't a properly engined Elfin Clubman (or a Type-R engined Ariel Atom) smoke everything on that list?

Sure.. up to 150mph.. WHich means that they would dominate the race for - oh say.. 17 seconds

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Ronin005 Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by saadie Originally Posted by Ronin005 im not trying to be funny but where do the Enzo and Zonda go on that list?? and the CCR Probably exactly where cars that cost MILLIONS of dollars should go umm well first off neither one of the cars i mentioned is in the millions range. 2nd off, for the price of a 430 you could buy what 2 maybe 3 vettes, so technically they are not in the same category so one shouldn't be comparing the 2. and 3rd, the Vette is chevy's top sports car correct?? and yet you try to compare it to Ferrari's low end sports car, that just doesn't seem fair. if your going to compare 2 cars they should be in the same category and the vette being chevy's top car and the Enzo being Ferrari's top car they are the ones that you should be comparing to one another. comparing chevy's top sports car to Ferrari's low end sports car to make your self feel better about owing a vette is ridiculous. compare apples to apples man. and its not Ferrari's fault that chevy chooses to go for outright speed over a total package, of speed, power, quality, technology, and handling, which of course a total package will always cost more. i have always found it funny how magazines most of the time only compare the vette and the gt40 which are the top sports cars from their manufactures to Ferrari's low end sports car. tisk tisk!!!!

Spoken like typical fanboy.

[graywolf624]

have always found it funny how magazines most of the time only compare the vette and the gt40 which are the top sports cars from their manufactures to Ferrari's low end sports car. tisk tisk!!!!

No offense but this is utterly rediculous. Comparing the top level car regardless of cost is just retarded. I could make you a car that costs a billion a car personally that would blow everything else away, but what does that prove? That with enough money you can hire the right people to do anything. You need to compare the car to the car in its class. In effect performance wise the f430 and gt40 are in the vettes class(even if price wise theres some descrepency). The enzo is in a whole other class.. Gts versus supercars.

[RC45]

Yet more proof you subscribe to the poser way..

Price seems to be the most important thing for you - and if that is how you were raised, so be it.

I guess the fact that the F430 costs $200,000+ is the most importnt thing. This way only people of a certain station in life are allowed entry.

Some people don't care to join the country club - of course the members all say it's because they can't afford it

[RC45]

So the only comparison you have is price then?

Interesting.

[graywolf624]

and the top of the line chevy sports car shouldnt be compared to the bottom of the line Ferrari.

Why?
They are both gts, they both have performance as there main objective and perform equivellently, they both use high technology...
Just about the only things I see different are the ferrari has a better interior and the corvette has better reliability.

The enzo is a super car..
The vette and f430 are gt cars.
Entirely different class.

Yet again top of the line is pointless.. If I got someone to back a billion dollar car that does everything the best, does that make me the best car manufacturer? The best at performance? The best at anything really?
No.. at some point you can do almost anything given enough money.

[graywolf624]

well why not compare the standard vette to the 430?? why compare the z06??

If you want to compare the zo6 to the stradale go ahead.. But it isnt out yet is it?

[graywolf624]

What does chevy building or not building a supercar have to do with the zo6 compared to the f430? I mean ferrari doesnt make a minivan, but you don't see me considering that part of the equation.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Ronin005 Originally Posted by RC45 So the only comparison you have is price then? Interesting. im a little confused, as you were the first one to mention anything about money here. Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by saadie Originally Posted by Ronin005 im not trying to be funny but where do the Enzo and Zonda go on that list?? and the CCR Probably exactly where cars that cost MILLIONS of dollars should go you were the one to FIRST say that they are in the same class due to price, and all i have to say is that price doesnt make a difference. ill reapeat my self for the 3rd time now, each company chooses to go about things thier own way and if one car costs more then the other so be it, that doesnt mean that they arent in the same class. its really simple and im suprised how you are having such a hard time understanding it.

The fact that a $65,000 car can run beat a $200,000 car and run up on the heals of a $400,000 car - but get trounced by a $million dollar is rather more of a bolster for the lower cost car and a damning of the higher priced car

Afterall, the idea is that the more money spent, the better it ought to be. Right?

Well it seems for the same money there is nothing.

For twice the money there is nothing.

For thrice the money there is nothing.

For four time the money there is nothing.

However, around five times the money this get interesting...

It seems that only near 8 times the money is there a marked performance difference.

Again - for you it seems that to be good it must be expensive - but numbers again show otherwise...

hehe

[graywolf624]

You have some weird ideas man.
When a company produces a product that competes directly with another product(the ferrari f430 and the vette) that doesnt mean they are competing on every product they make. In fact, other then perhaps a cache pushing down or up associating the car with other member cars, the other cars in there fold matter absolute 0. The cars are in the same category cause they are cross shopped. There is no market category called xs top of the line car. People dont go out and buy from the category... If that were the case toyota wouldnt be the top seller in the world for sure. People look for certain charachteristics on cars that pertain to the persons usage thereof. When they are adequately similar they are considered in the same class. The f430 is adequately similar to the vette.

[graywolf624]

well you dont want to compare the top Ferrari to the top chevy, simply cause the top Ferrari is considered a supercar. thats not Ferrari's fault.

Why would I consider it anyones fault? The zo6 isnt in the supercar class and it isn't supposed to be. It is in the gt and thus the f430s class. Thus it needs to be compared to the f430.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Ronin005 ok ill leave the Enzo out of this for a sec. the Z06, modified vette correct?? 430, standard correct?? now do you feel better that it takes a modified vette to do better then a standard 430??

I'll bite

Well - we went throurgh this with the C5 Z06 and the 360CS already.

The C5 Z06 blows the F360 into the weeds - and runs neck and neck with the 360CS.

The same seems to be developing in teh C6 Z06 vs F430 battle - as in it blows it away - so no doubt the F430CS will run wheel to wheel with the C6 Z06.

So again proof they are performance class equals.. but price unequals

Originally Posted by Ronin005 and when you speak of price, you forget that the vette is HUGELY MASS PRODUCED where as the 430 isnt, and that going to play a large part in the price of the car also the vette is hardly a total package where as the 430 is. in clarkson's words "its damn perfect" or something along those lines. also lets not forget that each car manufacture has different goals to achieve and i highly doubt that Ferrari's goal is "lets do better then chevy" where as i would bet my life one of chevy's goals is "lets do better then Ferrari", its typical american ego.

What has ego got to do with it? GM has again produced a car that is the performance equal of all the cars people want - but few can afford.

That's what it's all about.

In order for you to enjoy this kind of performance, you either have to suck it up and drive the "cheap" Z06 (which it seems you couldn't od - because you are all about image ) - or dream, because you don't have the $250,000 to get a car that has the kind of performance you dream of

And if you are stinking rich and want to prove your wealth, knock yourself out

Originally Posted by Ronin005 didnt they 430 challenge debut recently??

The Challenge is not street legal

[artypossum]

Excuse me, has anyone mentioned which car would post a better time on a curvy mkontain pass?

[gucom]

hmmm erm for ronin...if ur comparing 2 cars, ur just comparing those 2 cars, where they stand in their companies' order doesnt matter, ur just comparing those 2 cars nothing else.

now as for the le mans discussion that seems to be kind of forgotten, Corvette makes a race car out of their sports car, so does porsche. The porsche is in a lower class and raced by sort of small independent teams. the vette is in the higher class and raced by a factory-backed team. still the porsche is very close.
the fact u like to ignore is that theyre both race cars based on REGULAR road cars. its not like the GT3 is some hyper race car with just enough practicality to get a license plate, its a normal road car.

ah well at the end of the day i'd still want other cars rather than a vette, cos the vette simply doesnt inspire me as much as those other cars, i dont get really fascinated by the 'vette where other cars do fascinate me. for the 115k euros a Z06 costs here in holland, i could also get me a 2nd hand 993 Turbo, or a lotus exige and rent an appartment for a couple of years...