Supra/Mustang vs Murcielago?

[TeflonTron]

I posted the below on another car forum, and all of the replies so far have been somthing like "My Camaro with 400BHP would eat a Murcielago" or "My Supra would kill any Lamborghini" and the usual crap. I'm hoping for a much better set of answers and a warmer discussion here.

"I've seen a lot of Supra, Mustang and Lamborghini videos in my time, but one question has never really been answered: how much BHP and Torque would a Supra and Mustang need in order to stay in the race with say a Murcielago? I know that Supras enjoy races from a Roll, but a Murcielago has such wide gearing that it can start a 70MPH Roll-On and still be at the bottom of 2nd gear, whereas its Traction Control and AWD means that it can rip it hard from a standing start, if the driver doesn't mind smoking the clutch a little. The Mustang and Supra are both lighter than the Murcielago, but I'm guessing that they would both need maybe 650BHP at the crank, due to the gearing, wide power-band and huge traction of the Murcielago? However, even with 650BHP at the crank I'm still thinking that the Murcielago would eat them when the big numbers of like 140MPH or 150MPH or so comes up? Thoughts? Comments?

This is not meant to be a flame on the Supra or Mustang, simply a discussion so that I can widen my knowledge.

[TeflonTron]

Originally Posted by brembo Are we talking track use or the usual US handicap racing also known as drag racing....?

Sorry, my bad. Err, originally I was just thinking of in a straight line: from a stoplight, and from the usual 50MPH and 70MPH Roll-On. However, I'm also open enough to hear suggestions and thoughts on track use as well.

[SnakeBitten]

A Supra with 650hp would easily beat a stock 571hp Murcielago from any roll on race. From a dig it would depend on how good the 650hp Supra launches vs the idiot proof awd of the Lambo, but the Supra should win in the 1/4 as well..Modded Supra's are monsters on the topend not much can mess with them on a roll-on race especially if you spot one 650hp and bring a 571hp car to do battle.....

[RC45]

Actually around these parts any Z06 with headers and a hot cam will roll away from a Murci until the Murci starts it's run up to it' top speed from 150 or so...

You do not find (at least I have never) a street driven Murci or Gallardo that is abused from a stand still - something about Lambo clutches and drive trains being notoriously weak and expensive to fix.

As for how a 650hp Mustang would treat a Murci up to about 140mph - I think the Lambo driver would be placing a cell phone to his dealer crying that a $20,000bucket of bolts just kicked his arse......

But as they say - it's not about "who wins the races"... it's about "what the Murci represents"..

[PaulGT2164]

a supra pushing 650hp would easily rape a muci from a stop or a roll..
from launch it would just depend on the driver...

same with a modded mustang , or like rc45 said, a modded z06

however, seeing such a spectacle would be rare lol but it would be entertaining

[BADMIHAI]

And a 900 hp AWD Lada would smoke a Murcielago....and blow up after 100 km. like those other tuned shit buckets you guys mentioned above. I am sick of this tuned Vs. stock debate. A Murcielago (or Ferrari, or Aston, or Porsche, etc.) is so much more than a drag racer and it seems many of the peeps on this site don't understand this.

[TeflonTron]

I agree, BADMIHAI: a lot of people do talk smack. Seems to me that they're slightly jealous of the fact that they can't afford the exotic in the first place, so feel the need to bash it.

What does piss me off though, are when people use the words "easily" and "rape" as if any old car with 500BHP or more will walk a Lambo like a stroll to the shops. I've never seen it, so that's why I started the thread, but I don't think that a Supra would "walk" or "embarrass" a Murcielago from a stop, and the same holds true for a slightly modded Z06. I think that people base their opinions on an old video of a Diablo messing up at the dragstrip against a Viper and fail to look at the raw numbers involved. Put it this way: when a Supra/Mustang/Z06 or whatever decides to race against a Lambo, it is they, not the Raging Bull that has something to prove, and that is why 9/10 the Lambo pulls out, or doesn't go into the race all guns blazing.

[PaulGT2164]

first off, read the original post...hes talking about Modded supras or mustangs..
hence the
"how much BHP and Torque would a Supra and Mustang need in order to stay in the race with say a Murcielago"

"I am sick of this tuned Vs. stock debate. A Murcielago (or Ferrari, or Aston, or Porsche, etc.) is so much more than a drag racer and it seems many of the peeps on this site don't understand this."

well he asked, so we all answered....dont hate the posters for answering a quesion they didnt ask. He asked about it being a stoplight drag...


"I don't think that a Supra would "walk" or "embarrass" a Murcielago from a stop, and the same holds true for a slightly modded Z06. I think that people base their opinions on an old video of a Diablo messing up at the dragstrip against a Viper and fail to look at the raw numbers involved"

obviously you have never seen/ridden in/ or looked at the numbers of a modded supra or Z06. there are numerous ppl here that would glady point you in the right direction. a stock lambo murci runs the quarter in 11.7 or so....thats a number easily achieved by a supra, or a z06 with relatively simple mods...a supra with roughly 650 hp runs the same time....and i am sure a z06 being a lighter car would run that if not faster...

exotic cars are awesome, dont get me wrong, and i am in no way jealous of not owning one, to be honest , i wouldnt want one cause id be too paraniod about it....you asked a question, so i answered, as did everyone else

i looked at the raw numbers, i have never seen that video...

why ppl have to get so defensive and insult others for answering a question honestly is beyond me

funny teflontom, you asked the question, and now you are insulting the ppl who answered by calling the jealous cause they cant afford one...

[TeflonTron]

PaulGT2164: I'm sorry if you took offense at my comments about exotics and jealousy. They were posted out of frustration, not hate, and I apologise. As I said, I posted exactly the same question over at RacingFlix, and every answer so far has been "Oh, Lambos are just overpriced junk" and "my Mustang would walk any lambo" (you know the type) and it pisses me off. All I wanted to know, in a basic form, was roughly what BHP a Supra or Mustang would need in order to match the performance of a Murcielago, both from a stop, a highway roll, and all the way until the big numbers of like 160MPH or more come up.

So, as per your last post, you reckon that a Supra, Mustang or Z06 with about 650BHP (give or take) at the Engine should be able to match a Murcielago to 60, 100, 150 and from a 70MPH Roll On? The reason why I ask all of theose numbers is that it's "easy" to get a car fast to say 60MPH, but much harder to keep that level of performance up across the whole range. Here's another question: would you think that the same 650BHP Mustang, Supra or Z06 would be able to match the Murcielago at extreme speed, like 180MPH, and could they match the top speed of like 206MPH? I know that the above are a lot of questions, but I have a thirst for knowledge, and I'm trying to pin down a helpful, and insightful person such as yourself to help me expand it!

[PaulGT2164]

for the top end of the equation it would depend on the gearing of the car

im not sure about the stock gearing on a z06 so maybe rc45 can shed the light on that one

supras, on the other hand have been known to reach 200+ mph, ill dig around and see how much power one would need to do that, at above 170ish the lambos better aerodynamics over the supra would be a large benefit. i know top secret has a supra that had 700-800hp and could do well over 200mph, and was street legal. there have been several ppl that have been able to get mostly stock supras (with the limiter removed) and enough road to 170+ so i am sure a 650-700hp supra could at least make it to 180-200mph if the proper saftey and aero mods were taken into consideration. i think that a well tuned 650hp supra could run with the lambo up to at least 160, maybe more

the z06 would fare better (its more aerodynamic) than the supra, however i am not sure of the gearing, so it may or may not be able to crack 200mph


and please, dont confuse this forum with racingflix.
from my experience here, the people on jabbas world (ive been here since it was started) are quite a bit better and more knowledgable

[sads]

the age old question of Stock V Modded? Well you put enought money into just about any car and you'll beat a performance car. I'll never be able to buy a Lambo so I always like it when I see a modded street car beat one , but in saying that I feel sorry for the guy in the modded car who has to pay the bills for it.

[Toronto]

^^^^ lol and a tuned 911's would hit 242mph
who care's
you spend money on a shitty car you get to beat a super car, you spend money on a sports/super car you get to beat the tuned shitty car.
In the end all you really want is the sports/super car 8)

[RC45]

Originally Posted by brembo Originally Posted by RC45 You do not find (at least I have never) a street driven Murci or Gallardo that is abused from a stand still - something about Lambo clutches and drive trains being notoriously weak and expensive to fix. Where do find this info about the notoriously weak drivetrain of the Murci and Gallardo? I have searched the web some but didnt come up with anything, so if you could point me in the right direction I would be happy....thanks...

Ask Jabba.

Then watch owners videos of Lambo's - it's not an insult, just a fact that has been shared with me by more than one Lambo owner - cars/bikes that are sports orientated are not known for clutches and drive trains that can take standing start abuse.

If there is definitive proof that the Murci and Galardono longer suffer Lambo's clutch weakness then great - until then, based on what has been told to me by Lambo owners and been seen by Murcis and Gallardos on the street that are babied on the street I may change my view.

Afterall, sprint races around race tracks only start from a standtill once - the rest of the time the are rolling. So there is no need/desir/reason to engineer super tough drag-abuse resistant components.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by PaulGT2164 exotic cars are awesome, dont get me wrong, and i am in no way jealous of not owning one, to be honest , i wouldnt want one cause id be too paraniod about it....you asked a question, so i answered, as did everyone else i looked at the raw numbers, i have never seen that video... why ppl have to get so defensive and insult others for answering a question honestly is beyond me funny teflontom, you asked the question, and now you are insulting the ppl who answered by calling the jealous cause they cant afford one...

Exactly - the question was asked - we try answer, and they go off and act like arseholes about it.

However, these Murci and Gallardo guys better think twice before tangling with the new C6 Z06 - on the drag strip OR the road ourse..

Basically it is like a mean heads/headers/cam car out of the box now...

It won't be long to wait for the "my modded Murci can beat your stock C6 Z06" stories to start surfacing...

[mindgam3]

Who cares - i know which one i'd take every day of the week - the exotica.