European Cars are not Overpriced, Americans just build shit!

[Toronto]

I love how RC45 says that a bmw m and an AMG are overpriced.
They are not.

Have you been inside lets just say an e55 amg, and a CTS? The build quality on the GM is very poor, the plastic feel and the ugly materials just don't compare to that of the Benz.

For example. My aunt owns a red Escalade in New York, and she has to take it to the GM dealer at least once ever 1-2months, and her husband who drives on the same roads as her in his X5, has maybe gone to get the car fixed about once every half year. And the car was only at the dealer for only a day at most, yet the Escalade was there for 2-3 days.

Not only that the Plastic is falling off the plastic ( ) on the Escalades dash board while the Bmw is as good and new.

So I don't think people would mind paying the extra money for a car that is built better and looks better

Here is a simple way to show you that european cars are built better, and use better materials to make the cars with,
go to a GM dealer and feel the leather in their cars
then go to a BMW, AUDI, or Merc dealer and feel the leather in their cars.

what would you pick? Quality or Cheap shit?

[SilviaS15Cwest]

haha, my friends mom has a 2001 Suburban and the AC compressor has gone out 3 times since she bought it new. I think that is the only problem she is having with it though.

[SPEEDKILLAR]

I agree with you toronto, your completely right about this, you pay more if you want quality, and thats it.

[Toronto]

and just b4 anyone says this,
i know that merc's have had some trouble with their cars in that last couple of years, but common it just that people with the most money don't want to be out done by a toyota, so they complain

[T-Bird]

do you really want to start something like this? American cars are NOT cheap shit and yes German cars do have SOME things that are better but still quite expensive on some counts. I know someone who had a C-coupe and the sliding glass roof stuck open on him in the rain after only a few months of ownership. some people are soo one minded there are many non american companies that build shitty ass cars and that includes european cars, hell before Ford bought Land Rover and Jaguar they were building some crappy ass shit and know they are doing much better. Mercedes was building some crap for a while there and are only now doing better but still not perfect at all. The new BMW 1-series looks to be a promissing piece of shit. American car companies have some not so good cars but every company does, hell the swedish can't build their own cars they have to go to the japanese and steal one of theirs. The Focus is one of the best cars in it's class and guess what it's American, The Mustangs and Camaros etc... aren't built to go round tracks as much as down the strip, the Corvette is one hell of a car although the new one is fugly. We make some really good trucks and SUV's the Minivan wouldn't exist as we know it with out American companies (Chrysler specificaly). I know people who have Escalades and haven't had any trouble with them so maybe your aunt just doesn't take care of her's. On the looks front Rovers look like shit, Alfa's mainly look ugly and same with fiat's, the new X3 is somewhat fugly, the A-class ugly the Audi A2 A3 ugly.

[Max Power]

I don't think this is a fair comparison.....American cars, shitty as they are, are built for mass production and that mass has to cover the States, Canada & Mexico.....European cars, at least the ones u've mentioned (E55) are Premium cars, and are bought buy ppl with premium needs.....If a ratio of American cars to European cars is 50:1 in the States than Mercedes can afford to have a better quality built vehicle.....hence GM has to hire more workers which are less qualified and use cheaper materials to satisfy the general public....I've worked at a GM plant and there are bums building cars.......which can't be good for quality or reliability

......by the way the Focus was built in Europe for Europe but its just used in the States

[T-Bird]

actually the Focus is built in Canada

[graywolf624]

Have you been inside lets just say an e55 amg, and a CTS? The build quality on the GM is very poor, the plastic feel and the ugly materials just don't compare to that of the Benz.

According to jdpowers middle survey gm is 3 behind toyota and honda in build quality.. Well above BMW. In terms of plastic feel and ugly material, those are opinions, and it really depends on what you like. They are changing them as peoples tastes change, but most people could care less. The fact remains that an amg is not a performance per value piece. Great cars.. But.. your paying for the name and the import fees in addition to the luxuries. Same with the bmw.

[blah]

im driving my bros Z3 right now for about a month till he moves back here, and after riding in that beast, i dont know what to say about american interior. Even though theres not much inside, its done so tastefully that its satisfying.

[graywolf624]

jd power 3 year term reliability 2003:
http://consumeraffairs.com/news03/jdpower.html
Problems per 100 cars.
Porsche 103
Toyota 196
Honda 215
Nissan 258
BMW 262
GM 264
Subaru 266
AVERAGE 273
Ford 287
DaimlerChrysler 311
Mitsubishi 339
Hyundai 342
Isuzu 368
VW 378
Suzuki 403
Daewoo 421
Kia 509

GM's buick was highest ranked non luxury brand for 3 year survey.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4854302/
Initial quality servey.. first 90 days.
Lexus 87
Cadillac 93
Jaguar 98
Honda 99
Buick 100
Mercury 100
Hyundai 102
Infiniti 104
Toyota 104
Mercedes-Benz 106
Audi 109
BMW 109
Oldsmobile 110
Volvo 113
Acura 117
Chevrolet 119
INDUSTRY AVERAGE 119
Chrysler 120
Dodge 121
Lincoln 121
Pontiac 122
Subaru 123
GMC 127
Ford 130
Mitsubishi 130
Saab 133
Jeep 136
MINI 142
Land Rover 148
Saturn 149
Suzuki 149
Kia 153
Nissan 154
Mazda 157
Scion 158
Porsche 159
Volkswagen 164
HUMMER 173

[T-Bird]

well looks like you get something for your $100,000 dollar investment in an American Truck (eventhough they are guaranteed for 13 years)

[RC45]

Originally Posted by toronto I love how RC45 says that a bmw m and an AMG are overpriced. They are not.

I do not believe I have ever said that those cars are overpriced. But if it makes you happy to say so then knock yourself out.

I am simply stating that they are not the best performance bang-for-the-buck as other manufacturers enter the horse-power wars.

It is just that in the day of the CTS-V you no longer have to pay $80,000 for a 400hp sedan.

[FoxFour]

I think RC45 made his point quite eloquently.

[Toronto]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by toronto I love how RC45 says that a bmw m and an AMG are overpriced. They are not. I do not believe I have ever said that those cars are overpriced. But if it makes you happy to say so then knock yourself out. I am simply stating that they are not the best performance bang-for-the-buck as other manufacturers enter the horse-power wars. It is just that in the day of the CTS-V you no longer have to pay $80,000 for a 400hp sedan.

over-priced BMW or Audi?

you did say this in this thread http://www.motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11432 , but if you ment my bang-for your buck as in getting 400hp, for much less. but you are loosing the other things that make the AMG and BMW M such good cars, the way they are built inside to make the driver feel more comfortable

actually the Focus is built in Canada

yes it is now, only because the car sold so well and had such a big impact over-seas ford decided to bring it over. much like now they are thinking of bringing back the contour/Mercury Mystique, a car that has been selling as the mondeo in europe

*** Edit (didn't want to start a new post ***

Originally Posted by T-Bird The new BMW 1-series looks to be a promissing piece of shit... ...the Minivan wouldn't exist as we know it with out American companies (Chrysler specificaly)... ...Alfa's mainly look ugly...

BMW 1-series is a good car, BMW logo at the front, rear-wheel drive in a fwd world. i think it will sell good,

No one but North Americans buy the minivan, and all the profits from the current sales of them go back to germany cause it is owned by a German company (or didn't you know?)

and Alfa's look amazing, so much style even JC couldn't say no to the looks of the new alfa's, they are just so sexy!

[RC45]

Originally Posted by toronto Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by toronto I love how RC45 says that a bmw m and an AMG are overpriced. They are not. I do not believe I have ever said that those cars are overpriced. But if it makes you happy to say so then knock yourself out. I am simply stating that they are not the best performance bang-for-the-buck as other manufacturers enter the horse-power wars. It is just that in the day of the CTS-V you no longer have to pay $80,000 for a 400hp sedan. over-priced BMW or Audi? you did say this in this thread http://www.motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11432 , but if you ment my bang-for your buck as in getting 400hp, for much less. but you are loosing the other things that make the AMG and BMW M such good cars, the way they are built inside to make the driver feel more comfortable

LOL - nice - of all the posts to quote, you choose the one with a facetious. smiley peppered jab at the AMG and M brigade... hehe

Let's face it - until now what other choices did you have for a factory 400hp+ sedan?

And if it isn't the hp you are after, why not just get the normal german model?

Now I feel the V6 CTS is an overpriced pile of crap..