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Old 03-26-2004, 02:08 PM   #796
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Originally Posted by HoboPie
Can anyone who speaks even a little german give a little light on the article?Is it pure tech stats? do they compare them in any sense(even offhand comments)? Do they comment on the car capabilities outside the pure numbers they post?

Anything about it all would be great.
...will do some time that weekend, hopefully...
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Old 03-26-2004, 04:43 PM   #797
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Thank you st-anger !!!!! Nice scan, and .. ops: i will wait for the transaltion as my german is really poor !
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Old 03-26-2004, 06:37 PM   #798
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Thanks for all st-anger! Great photos, in the group one the Enzo seems fast evn if ti's standing still, MMMH what a car!!! BTW,the SLR is nothing compared to the Enzo, CGT and Zonda...not so beautiful and it's not a supercar
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Old 03-26-2004, 07:23 PM   #799
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Originally Posted by Chingachgook
Thanks for all st-anger! Great photos, in the group one the Enzo seems fast evn if ti's standing still, MMMH what a car!!! BTW,the SLR is nothing compared to the Enzo, CGT and Zonda...not so beautiful and it's not a supercar
...yeah, what a pitty it´s not...

...a supercar, ´cause i really like it´s look - from the outside, i just hate the interiour wtf...more or less the std. SL interiour, same materials, steering wheel like in a A-class , nothing special at all for 435k €... sorry no MB... :roll:

...at the IAA ´03 i´ve talked to a tech who has been involved in the developement of the SLR and he already told me that the SLR would never be a real competitor to the Enzo, CGT,... but MB and McLaren would like to sell it as a real alternative to those cars, but it´s simply too heavy.... it has been way lighter but MB wanted it to be more comfortable and stuff like that so now it´s just a very fast and expensive SL, and far behind to be a real supercar...
but we shouldn´t underestimate it, lathough it´s kinda heavy it´ll clock a very very fast lap time at the NS, i´m dead sure about that, we´ll have to wait and see, but i´m sure SA will get one this summer...hopefully...
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Old 03-26-2004, 08:36 PM   #800
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…so here´s a short translation of the article, the tester of all the supercars had been Dr.Ulrich Schiefer, to most of you he´ll be a stranger, but he´s very well known here in Europe in automotive industry, he studied aviation and space technology, has been chief engineer with BMW and Aston Martin for their sports and racing cars and is now in charge of Porsche engineering group…
so he´s the guy for the ultimate supercar showdown with 2453hp: Ferrari Enzo, Porsche Carrera GT, MB McLaren SLR and Pagani Zonda S, just four “cars” nearly worth 2 million €…
a straight away question: which one is superior???
“we really can´t answer that like this, each model pursues its own philosophy and has it´s own very special details. There´s just one thing each model has in common: the carbon fiber monocoque to gain max. rigidity on the one hand, but also to save up to 40% of weight on the other hand instead of a std. steel construction” Schiefer answered…
but one thing seems to be absolutely clear, the Enzo is the most eradicative solution regardlessly designed, a race car with MOT approval… “unreasonable Italians…” he said while smiling , and with full respect for the consequently overall design, starting at he front end: “the cooling air dischargal is used for gaining downforce, just like in a racing car, the openings at he end of the fenders act like the same and the positive pressure inside the wheel arch is reduced, a a technical finesse just like on the CGT”… speaking of the CGT, dr. schiefer is very much impressed by the aerodynamics and technical features of the Porsche.
but also the Ferrari has a very efficient rear end with diffuser and automatically adjustable rear wing, accelerating the air underneath the car to produce downforce, just like with the Zonda but here it´s only a fixed wing…
a standard feature on all of the cars, the coated underbody for avoiding turbulences…
the SLR differs a bit from the aerodynamical layout because of the front-mid engine layout and the long hood, so it has to reduce lift at the rear end, while the mid-engine cars are tending to lift at the front axle instead. that´s why MB decided to introduce the pull-out airbrake in combination with with a very very efficient diffuser, because no exhaust system at the back, it´s right after the front wheels… the endless hood is not only covers the engine, it also domiciled a crash structure made of carbon fiber elements. behind them lies the engine reaching even under the windscreen, flanked by a very complex exhaust system producing enormous temperatures, so the side air vents are really needed constructive not only as a reminiscence to the old SLR… an advantage of the front engine layout of the SLR: the direct approaching flow of the air and the resulting dynamic pressure can be used for better performance, but well non of the four really has problems with performance figures…
Pagani and Ferrari are using a 12 cly. rear engine, CGT a mid-engine V10 and SLR a supercharged V8… the 7.3ltr. AMG V12 engine in the Pagani has a completely different layout than the Enzo´s V12, not the real peak performance is that important but the huge torque of 750Nm@4000rpm. both, the engine of the Enzo and CGT are delivering their peak performance at very high revs around 8000rpm, dr.schiefer: “ they´re offering very high revving engines with an amazing specific power output. the Enzo´s 65° V12 guarantees a vibration free engine running and is mounted extremely deep to keep the center of gravity as low as possible. Porsche´s V10 is lighter and shorter, F1 are using them not in vain…
also the entire engine and engine carrier made of carbon fiber are just beautiful and looking like modern art” he added… “thumbs up for Porsche…” it´s the only car where even the engine carrier is made of CFRP, even the Enzo still uses aluminium and steel instead…
dr.schiefer didn´t like the working on the Zonda, “the flange mounted steel frame looks like a prototype solution…” but nevertheless, he had full respect for the Zonda, although some details like suspension are not state of the art and not the lightest parts are used, what he really liked is the gorgeous interiour… Enzo and CGT are using lying dampers instead, controlled by Pushrods, longitudinal installed in the CGT and transverse in the Enzo, depending on space available and service friendliness. an important thing is, that these elements should not be exposed to excessive heat, the supports are very stiff and strong and double wishbone axles are used. an interesting fact on the SLR, the front anti-roll bar has been mislaid to the top and is controlled by a stiffener. this has also an aerodynamical reason…
dr. schiefer has been impressed by the brakes too, he really liked the SBC brakes from the SLR, the electrohydraulic brake callipers in combination with ceramic rotors are a remarkable feature for future sport cars, but he also emphasised the PCCB in combination with the magnesium wheels to reduce the unsprung masses. next he´s talking about the interiors: very sporty inside the Enzo, he´s been surprised by the CGT´s daily use ability, and, as already mentioned really liked the Zonda´s special elements inside the cockpit… SLR….average…
all in all he didn´t say anything about a favourite but what i read out he liked Enzo and CGT best maybe the CGT a bit more, Zonda coming in third and SLR in fourth position…
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Old 03-26-2004, 11:19 PM   #801
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Thanks, that was all I was looking for...... the Enzo isn't a failure or anything at closer inspection.
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Old 03-27-2004, 12:15 PM   #802
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Thanks for the article st-anger I feel the same about the SLR it´s simpy just not in the same league.
Do you know if and if so when Sport Auto is going to make that test with the CGT vs the Enzo around the Nuerburgring?
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Old 03-27-2004, 01:05 PM   #803
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Originally Posted by schnell318
Thanks for the article st-anger I feel the same about the SLR it´s simpy just not in the same league.
Do you know if and if so when Sport Auto is going to make that test with the CGT vs the Enzo around the Nuerburgring?
i think you already know that there´s been a test by SA with the CGT on the ring last year, you´ll find all the information here at "Pn" on pages 19 and 20 i believe...
some time ago i´ve also posted that SA´ll repeat the CGT supertest this spring/summer...

unfortunately really no sign to see the Enzo at the ring, maybe a private customer may lend SA his Enzo for testing, i´m thinking of the guy who´s leading "Infineon Germany", but i´m not sure about that...
but be sure...i´m on it

at least i know a bit more on that issue, up to now we thought the Enzo had never seen the NS officially but it actually had...
last summer Michael Schumacher drove a lap round the NS during a special Ferrari event, only a handfull of ppl where present so nobody knew about that event. of course no lap times available but i´m dead sure they didn´t clock one anyway...
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Old 03-30-2004, 09:22 AM   #804
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Is there any chance of seeing the MC12 at the ring? I remember hearing it might get a chance as really the car is already designed to go out and race so the Enzo doesn't have to, but considering there will be so few examples is it likely to ever happen?
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Old 03-30-2004, 09:32 AM   #805
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Originally Posted by HoboPie
Is there any chance of seeing the MC12 at the ring? I remember hearing it might get a chance as really the car is already designed to go out and race so the Enzo doesn't have to, but considering there will be so few examples is it likely to ever happen?
...i really have no idea, but´ll tell you if any info available...
btw, tomorrow we´ll hit the ring with our Cayenne prototype, so any spy-photographers are welcome .... but i´m afraid they won´t see much it´s just a std. 955TT bodykit but with a powerfull engine
i´ll tell you tomorrow....can´t wait for it

i´ll post some new pics of NS later...
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Old 03-30-2004, 09:34 AM   #806
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some new pics of ( still camoflaged ) 997 models, yellow one is std. Carrera, black is new TT...
enjoy








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Old 03-30-2004, 04:54 PM   #807
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Originally Posted by st-anger
Originally Posted by HoboPie
Is there any chance of seeing the MC12 at the ring? I remember hearing it might get a chance as really the car is already designed to go out and race so the Enzo doesn't have to, but considering there will be so few examples is it likely to ever happen?
...i really have no idea, but´ll tell you if any info available...
btw, tomorrow we´ll hit the ring with our Cayenne prototype, so any spy-photographers are welcome .... but i´m afraid they won´t see much it´s just a std. 955TT bodykit but with a powerfull engine
i´ll tell you tomorrow....can´t wait for it

i´ll post some new pics of NS later...
Yeah, I knew there wasn't much chance there was info, but I hated seeing this thread so low.
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Old 03-30-2004, 05:49 PM   #808
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Thanks for the translation st-anger!
I read that the Mercedes can be easily lightened, but the real thing I don't like of the car (apart being a MB) it's the auto gearbox. How, I wonder HOW a such powerful, technological car can have a auto gearbox! I mean... carbon fibre chassis and body, ceramic brakes, great aerodynamic, opwerful (but not special) engine....and AUTO gearbox! :cry:
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Old 03-30-2004, 06:40 PM   #809
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Has anyone heard any information about Alois Ruf making another video of a Rturbo on the Nurbergring and when it might be available? I understand that they shot the footage sometime last summer and that it is suppose to be similar to the one they did with the CTR. I love that video of Stefan Roser wring the car out on the NS.
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Old 03-30-2004, 06:56 PM   #810
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It will cost 79 Euros it is availible.
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