motor

evoWalo · 09-03-2004, 11:54 AM

I always wondered why they dont offer it to the public like Subaru or Mitsubishi does.

FordGTGuy · 09-03-2004, 11:56 AM

Ford is a family car company except for the fordgt. A truck company also you might wanna ask other peeps about the other companies.

mindgam3 · 09-03-2004, 12:01 PM

because the rally cars are based on production cars, not the other way round....

Ford have the focus RS.... not completely a rally car, but gives EVO's n scoobys a run for their money on track

evoWalo · 09-03-2004, 12:05 PM

What I ment was why not offer their production cars to near rally car spec. Naturally they cant sell what's on the WRC but something as sporty, fast and brash?

possessed_beaver · 09-03-2004, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by dani_d_mas

I've always thought the same. I think that the FIA should say "well, you want to compete in the WRC??? ok, you have to produce 100 cars like the rallye one, with 2000cc Turbo and 4WD". It's what happen in the FIA GT: if you want to race there, you need some production cars to homologate the race versions (look at the MC12). It would be fun to see a Xsara 2.0 Turbo 4WD, or the Focus Cosworth again. Some time ago there were a lot of cars that way: the Lancia Delta HF Integrale, the Ford Escort RS Cosworth... and now we only have the Impreza and the Lancer.

I ABSALUTLEY AGREE!!!

it will bring more intrest to the sport aswell, because of the comp of who has the best aftermarket car, and i think it's stupid a hyundai is in the same leage as a scooby, just because hyundai spent millions on a one off 4wd turbo beast with a hyundai body shell on it.

removing the homologate laws was the stupidest thing ever!

evoWalo · 09-03-2004, 01:15 PM

I'd love to try out a Citroen or even a Peugeot street legal rally car.

Ian_yamaue · 09-03-2004, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by possessed_beaver

Originally Posted by dani_d_mas

I've always thought the same. I think that the FIA should say "well, you want to compete in the WRC??? ok, you have to produce 100 cars like the rallye one, with 2000cc Turbo and 4WD". It's what happen in the FIA GT: if you want to race there, you need some production cars to homologate the race versions (look at the MC12). It would be fun to see a Xsara 2.0 Turbo 4WD, or the Focus Cosworth again. Some time ago there were a lot of cars that way: the Lancia Delta HF Integrale, the Ford Escort RS Cosworth... and now we only have the Impreza and the Lancer.

I ABSALUTLEY AGREE!!!

it will bring more intrest to the sport aswell, because of the comp of who has the best aftermarket car, and i think it's stupid a hyundai is in the same leage as a scooby, just because hyundai spent millions on a one off 4wd turbo beast with a hyundai body shell on it.

removing the homologate laws was the stupidest thing ever!

Yeah, they're fools leting Subaru and Mitsubishi alone in this market...

HeilSvenska · 09-03-2004, 06:09 PM

That Citroen C4 concept looked promising

Ford Capri 2.8i · 09-05-2004, 07:33 AM

Its not easy to obligue a brand to produce a certain number of some specific cars, such as the pug 307 turbo 4wd, the C4 turbo 4wd...., and make profitable these actions, once this strategy was practiced in the Group A and Group B era during the 80s and 90s

For example.....if we go back to the group B period(1982-1986)...every brand had to produce at most 200 units of a certain model in order to get homologated as a group B and let the exactly same car compete in the World Rallying Championship....as a result.....once it was easy to find out 200 people all over the world capable of purchasing cars around 350bhp, 850kg of weight, a very little wheelbase, cars capable of achieving 500bhp easily, and capable of affording 54000â‚¬ during the 85s........at the end of the day.....the group B cars developed too much power and they were too tricky to drive in rally courses(the rallying roads are surrounded by big trees, walls, cliffs......, they roads are in bad conditions in general such as the snow, the humidity on the road, the ice on the road, the foggs........)..as a result...the FIA(in that period the FISA) decided to ban the group B after the Corsica rally in june 1986)..i wouldnt like to imagine what sort of cars would be produced by citroen, pug, Ford....if they were allowed to produce 100 cars at most of a certain model
After the group B prohibition, the FISA decided to create the world rallying championship based on the group A cars...as a result, the brands had to produce 5000 units at most of a certain model in order to be allowed to run in the World Rallying Championship...as a result.....many brands decided to take part in the WRC such as Ford with the Sierra Cosworth, Lancia, Subaru, Toyota, Mazda....once the FIA observed that the evolution of the Group A car was getting a similar tendence to the Group B even more progresively(the group A cars were becoming more and more similar to the group B cars)..the FIA decided to increase the maximum number of producing car to 10000 in order to get the Group A homologation...as a result....only Subaru and mitsubishi concluded that they were capable of achieving 10000 4wd turbo cars and make profit......

Although the subject of the topic sounds good and interesting.....its not easy to achieve it basing on the previous rallying experience, thats why i decided to explain a bit the Group A and Group B era

By the way....thanks for the pics...especially the japanese ferrari 355/lancia 037 pics where they are surrounded by a large number of lancia thema 8.32s...IMO this pic should be called a piece of art rather than a awesome pic

evoWalo · 09-05-2004, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by dani_d_mas

You're an expert in rallying dude! I'm shocked :shock: ... May be you're right: the Evo or the Impreza are more than simply cars, are the flagship of their brands and I suppose that a CitroÃ«n or a Peugeot Turbo 4WD would have a lot of difficulties to reach the Evo levels in marketing success.

How hard is it for them to flaunt their track records. So far their cars have been beating Evos after the time of Makinnen. Heck Mitsu just pulled out from competition to concentrate on the next Evo.

hemi_fan · 09-06-2004, 11:38 AM

I agree, it would be really cool to have some EVO and STI competitors out there...

Paco · 09-07-2004, 05:29 PM

I agree: the mentionned car manufacturers should profit more from their rally success.

Profit should not be the main objective but image building. When you bring out a limited edition people will flock to buy such a rare car. Look at the succes of the Focus RS.

Especially Peugeot and CitroÃ«n are not taking advantage, since they are winning big time in rallying. Furthermore, they COULD make a profit by building one chassis/engine configuration and just rebadge it Peugeot and CitroÃ«n (same factory).

Weird...

racingfreak · 09-07-2004, 05:39 PM

What bout the peugeot 206 180gti? That was based on the 206 wrc or not?

Ford Capri 2.8i · 09-07-2004, 06:14 PM

Pug made the 206 GTI in order to compete against the renault Clio RS(the main competitor of the 206 ever; furthermore, about 10 years ago the pug 205 GTI 1.9 was the main competitor of the Renault Clio 16V/Williams...about 19 years ago the pug 205 GTI 1.6 was the main competitor of the renault 5 GT Turbo 115 bhp..about 23 years ago the pug 106 ZS/talbot samba rallye was the main ccompetitor of the renault 5 alpine, and so on...) pug launched the 180 bhp GTI regardless pug is compiting in the world rallying championship or not......for instance...the pug GTI has nothing to see with the WRC(4 wheel drive and turbo engine) once the GTI is an aspirated 2.0 engine and front wheel drive....ill give you another example...for instance the only sporty version of the skoda fabia is the RS 1.9 TDI...whereas skoda was running in the world rallying championship with the Fabia WRC last year in Auriol and Gardemeisters hands.......one fact more....pug inmediately after the 206 launching on the market(about 6 years ago) launched the GTI(a similar version of the GTI 180, a 2.0 engine but with 140 bhp instead and a non admission variable system), and pug was compiting in the formula 1, and they decided to go to the WRC about three years ago when the pug 206 GTI had been selling for one year...in conclusion....the WRC doesnt depend too much on the everyday use equivalent cars....

No.1 · 09-07-2004, 06:33 PM

You all seem to be missing something. :roll:

You can buy a WRC car, to race privately, as long as they agree to sell you one

The WRC cars ARE road legal... they have to be to travel between stages.

To sum up, for Â£300k you can have your own WRC car to drive to work/school or at the weekends if you have the cash, and the team are willing to sell you a car