motor

TT · 10-13-2003, 10:10 AM

Anyway interesing to see Ferrari and Porsche swapping cars

st-anger · 10-13-2003, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by TT

Anyway interesing to see Ferrari and Porsche swapping cars

...not a big deal in automobile industry, even when it`s Ferrari and Porsche.
e.g. Porsche and MB made a secret comparison to find out which car is superiour, the CGT or the SLR, this meeting has been one of the main reasons why the SLR has been considerably delayed, and got some more power...
i think it`s clear which car have been ( IS !? ) better...

1zippo1 · 10-13-2003, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by st-anger

Originally Posted by TT

Anyway interesing to see Ferrari and Porsche swapping cars

...not a big deal in automobile industry, even when it`s Ferrari and Porsche.
e.g. Porsche and MB made a secret comparison to find out which car is superiour, the CGT or the SLR, this meeting has been one of the main reasons why the SLR has been considerably delayed, and got some more power...
i think it`s clear which car have been ( IS !? ) better...

Hasn't the Porsche increased the power of their CGT. I believe it was 558hp at first.

By the way st-anger, I'm searching for a metallica song, one of their last songs. They've used it as a soundtrack in episode 302 of smallville and I think it's one of their last singles.

TT · 10-13-2003, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by st-anger

Originally Posted by TT

Anyway interesing to see Ferrari and Porsche swapping cars

...not a big deal in automobile industry, even when it`s Ferrari and Porsche.
e.g. Porsche and MB made a secret comparison to find out which car is superiour, the CGT or the SLR, this meeting has been one of the main reasons why the SLR has been considerably delayed, and got some more power...
i think it`s clear which car have been ( IS !? ) better...

Yeh, you're right, and BTW, for less exclusive cars, it's obvious every manufacturer tries in depth the cars done by the others... but it's nice to know about that Enzo-CGT swap and to see they didn't do to much effort to keep it secret

it sure indicates both manufacturers are pretty sure about their cars

st-anger · 10-13-2003, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by 1zippo1

Originally Posted by st-anger

Originally Posted by TT

Anyway interesing to see Ferrari and Porsche swapping cars

...not a big deal in automobile industry, even when it`s Ferrari and Porsche.
e.g. Porsche and MB made a secret comparison to find out which car is superiour, the CGT or the SLR, this meeting has been one of the main reasons why the SLR has been considerably delayed, and got some more power...
i think it`s clear which car have been ( IS !? ) better...

Hasn't the Porsche increased the power of their CGT. I believe it was 558hp at first.

By the way st-anger, I'm searching for a metallica song, one of their last songs. They've used it as a soundtrack in episode 302 of smallville and I think it's one of their last singles.

on the one hand you`re right zippo, but the power increasement of the CGT has nothing to do with a comparison with other supercars like Enzo or SLR.
on the other hand I can tell you something, probably only some ppl know who´re not into Porsche officially:
the project CGT was born an 14th june 1998, Porsche started developing it in fall 2000,
so when i`d been in weissach too

( Dec.1997 to Jul. 2001 ) and i even got some insights into the LeMans racing car project which should be able to win the 24h race for the 17th time…
as I said some times before I can`t tell you all the details, I think you understand that…

after a double victory for the GT1 at 1998 24h race in LeMans, Porsche cancelled the 1998 GT-racing season because breathing asthmatically through restrictors, its turbocharged engines were denied the power that could have made them competitive.
especially lacking were the mid-range torque and response needed to accelerate away from the slow corners that proliferated on the latest race-track designs back then.
so Herbert Ampferer (Porsches motorsports chief ) drew a line under the turbo-blown era and recommended that Porsche face its racing future with naturally aspirated engines.
work on the new LMP ( Le Mans Prototype) car, named LMP 2000, started immediately.
in nov. 1998 Horst Marchart, chief of Weissach R&D facility, announced at its annual motorsports gathering that it would not compete in 1999 but would have a new racer ready for the 2000 season, he said that Porsche decided to stop for one year to develop a complete new car.
it was mr. Ampferer`s task to develop an engine first, and due to his former work for the Footwork Arrows F1 team where he designed the Type 3512 V-12´s sucsessor, a 3.5ltr V10, he scaled up the concept of this engine to 5.5ltr., but kept the 68-degree vee angle, a novum in a Porsche engine. twin overhead cams for each cylinder bank were gear-driven and opened four valves per cylinder. the main castings were aluminum, using a nikasil coating directly on the cylinder bores. the cylinders were cast integrally with the block to keep the engine as short as possible ~60cm long and also stiff enough to be used as the rear portion of the frame. Porsches new V10 grouped its pumps and accessories in a case that extended across the front of the crankcase below the crankshaft nose, whence its train of gears was turned. a single water pump on the right side served both cylinder banks. the left-hand bank was offset forward of its mate to accommodate the side-by-side titanium connecting rods. butterfly throttles controlled the motronic generated mixture to an engine capable of revving to 10.000 rpm and producing 680 horsepower. drive train and suspension were carried over with improvements from the ´98 GT1. Porsche then designed a new carbon-fiber frame tub and it was produced by “Lola Composites”. after some delays the prototype of the LMP 2000 was ready for tests at Weissach by Nov. 1999. first test driver`s were Allan McNish and Bob Wollek, both calling the it an excellent car. BUT on nov. 21st Porsche announced that the project would be halted due to a business decision to concentrate all engineering resources on the development of the Cayenne. in 1999 the accountants have finally triumphed over the engineers and everybody at weissach was disappointed to hell, the car that might well have been Porsche's 17th Le Mans winner was dead. …“profit comes before pride“
but after some provocations e.g. from AM with its Vanquish and MB´s SLR, BMW`s Z8, VW`s takeover of Lambo, the revival of Bugatti, Bentley´s Hunadieres concept car and, most outrageous of all, the Volkswagen W12 open two-seater with its 500hp W-12 engine CEO Wiedeking HAD to act. so he announced: ”In recent times, the giants in the business have discovered the sports car, serving, you might say, some special cream on top of their big cakes. more and more companies are now rounding off their model range with high performance vehicles claimed to be “sporting” and “dynamic” Porsche won`t play second fiddle to these upstarts!”
so it had been up to Harm Lagaay, chief designer, to design the Porsche supercar. there were no design restrictions, and no need to use any carryover parts from existing projects, the only brief was to make a strong statement in the field of top end sports cars, which Porsche had not made since the 959. borrowing from other projects wasn't prohibited, so use could be made of the 5.5ltr V10 that Herbert Ampferer's racers were developing for the LMP 2000. it kept its small diameter racing clutch, which made driving the concept CGT somewhat tricky, and was detuned to 558hp at 7500rpm and 442 lb-ft of torque at 4500rpm. development of the Carrera GT for production was assigned to Weissach`s motorsports group, backed up by other resources at the engineering center. Herbert Ampferer was in charge of the project, which benefited greatly in its later stages from the involvement of veterans Norbert Singer and Roland Kussmaul. the V10 was converted from its noisy gear train camshaft drive to quieter chains providing a VarioCam system for the inlet valves. Instead of the sequential shift racing transmission a gate type manual shift for the transverse six-speed gearbox was used because the Americans prefer it. Only 17cm in diameter, a twin disc ceramic clutch coped with 435 lb-ft of torque at 5750 rpm from the 5733cc (98 x 76 mm) V10, which produced 612hp at 8000 rpm in production form. replacing the provisional aluminum structure of the prototypes was a monocoque of carbon fiber reinforced resin, manufacturer is ATR in italy, the same company delivers Ferrari for its Enzo monocoque.

i know, again it`s a long, long article but there`s so much to tell, and it always makes me happy when thinking back to that times…
I believe it was 558hp at first....just one simply question and now you`ll need an hour to read the answer....i`m sorry

i´ve no idea of a “soundtrack in episode 302 of smallville” but ´Tallica`s last single is named “Frantic”
http://www.metallica.com/index.asp?item=1331

1zippo1 · 10-13-2003, 03:47 PM

Thx for your answer st-anger. You were right about the song, that was the one I was looking for!!!

I'm convinced the CGT will be amazing, there is no doubt in my mind about that. Surely not after reading the articles about it but I would still love to see a comparison between the new supercars to see how they'll stack up. I don't think that there was a time before this, when so many amazing cars appeared at the same time.

Chingachgook · 10-14-2003, 03:31 AM

Originally posted by st-anger
´ve done some investigations on that, how WR could know that the CGT is better or the Enzo, and here`s what i know now:
Porsche is going to lend a CGT to Ferrari for approx. a week in oct, so mr. benuzzi can find out who`s done the better job.
Ferrari already borrowed an enzo to Porsche, so that`s how WR can say "his" car is better, but i think we all know what benuzzi`s going to say about the CGT....
so not some news at all concerning CGT vs. Enzo but just to inform you...

Thanks, really thanks!!

You're a gold mine man!

We all know what Benuzzi is going to say. The Enzo's setup has been developed by Benuzzi, so he feels at home in the Ferrari. Same thing for the CGT and WR (one if the greatest drivers of all time)
I hope the Enzo will be faster....I love Ferrari!
Ps:You know that Benuzzi is faster than Shummy at Fiorano in the 575M maranello? 3tenth...but still faster.

alondahan · 10-14-2003, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by Chingachgook

Ps:You know that Benuzzi is faster than Shummy at Fiorano in the 575M maranello? 3tenth...but still faster.

Benuzzi is faster than Shumy in all of the production cars

He's an amazing driver. I saw him driving a 360 Challange Stradale in Fiorano. Very impressive to se him driving.

Chingachgook · 10-14-2003, 06:33 AM

Benuzzi was faster than Gerhard Berger also in the F1 car

Imagine how cool a ride in the old 'Ring in the F40...
Ok ok stop imagination

st-anger · 10-14-2003, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Chingachgook

Imagine how cool a ride in the old 'Ring in the F40...
Ok ok stop imagination

i´ve already experienced that...
it was a present for my 30th birthday from some of my colleagues, thx for that again guys!!!
so in a Ferrari F40 with a pro ( Giuseppe Timperanza ) behind the wheel two laps round the Nordschleife, an amazing experience, so when you´ll be in germany some time, be sure to book on that site:

http://www.timpi.de/index.html

sorry it´s only in german, but i´ll tell you some things worth to know:
driver: Giuseppe Timperanza, finished third at the 24h race last year, has lapped the `ring over 10000 times...
car: Ferrari F40 640hp...
price: 250€ per lap, but really worth it!!!

if anyone is interested and has problems with the site or communication with timpi, i´ll see what i can do....

:arrow: BTW, SEVEN DAYS TO GO.... :shock: 8)

stradale · 10-15-2003, 10:54 AM

:shock: ... :shock: I'm speechless... Wow, I would really like that.

You're a lucky man, st-anger. And in seven days, you'll be lucky again!

st-anger · 10-15-2003, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by stradale

:shock: ... :shock: I'm speechless... Wow, I would really like that.

You're a lucky man, st-anger. And in seven days, you'll be lucky again!

well i suppose the ring isn`t that far away from where you`re living, isn`t it???
250€ per round is a bit much, e.g. two laps with a M3 CSL is about 190€, but it`s a Ferrari F40, a legend in automotive history!!!
and it`s really worth the money, even for a non-Ferrari fan...

well, of course i´m lucky, but it has also been a lot of hard, hard work i had to do in my life so far, and only because of that hard work my life is pretty comfortable now...

and yes, SIX days to go and my dream´ll come true.
i´ve always been dreaming of driving the CGT since i saw the design drawings and early concepts when i was working in weissach, and you heared from colleagues: " you´ve heared about the latest news:....this`ll be on the CGT...it`ll have this and that...."
so i´m really excited, and i can`t wait to hear from Porsche Leipzig, i´ll get a phonecall at the end of that week how it`ll take place exactely...
maybe i should bring the €50k with me, that you have to deposit when you want to order one....

stradale · 10-15-2003, 05:11 PM

I think the Ring is about 600 km from here, but if you take the cost of getting there and back and add 250€ (or 500, after one lap I know I'd want another one), then it's some serious money I'm looking at. At least, for a student. It's gotta be worth it though. If I would be doing something like this, there is no doubt in my mind it has to be in the F40. Maybe in a couple of months, when I'm hoping to have my degree and have a job...

We all want to hear from you what it was like driving the CGT and pictures/video would be very welcome as well. Are you going to sleep at all this week?

It could be very tempting to desposit. That is, if they're not all spoken for. You could deposit and see if by some miracle you have the rest of the money by the time they've finished building your CGT...

Chingachgook · 10-16-2003, 03:44 AM

st-anger, I don't have words to say...old Ring+ Ferrari F40+Great driver at he wheel=a dream come true!

My compliments

st-anger · 10-16-2003, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by stradale

We all want to hear from you what it was like driving the CGT and pictures/video would be very welcome as well. Are you going to sleep at all this week?

It could be very tempting to desposit. That is, if they're not all spoken for. You could deposit and see if by some miracle you have the rest of the money by the time they've finished building your CGT...

sleep, what is sleep??? i`ve a 24/7 job man....

sure i´m very excited but those few hours i can sleep, i´m sleeping like a baby, not even time for my wife in bed...j/k.....

as i said before, you guys will be one of the first to know how it was like, and as i posted before it`s actually not allowed to take some pics inside the facility, but i´m confident that i can manage something, so no worries, there`ll be some pics, i can`t promise about the vids...
i think i´m able to sort all this out tomorrow, when i´ll get the phonecall...

...and trust me, if i´d be single, my deposit would have been made a year ago, the money won`t be an issue and i´m not speaking of the 50k...

:arrow: BUT

my wife`d leave me if i`d buy a 452k€ car, and i love her more than anything else, even when "anything else" is a Porsche Carrera GT...