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Old 05-09-2005, 03:07 PM   #151
|Nuno|
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Originally Posted by SFDMALEX
Originally Posted by mindgam3
Originally Posted by |Nuno|
Despite the problems that Ferrari are suffering, however, Hamashima believes that the only area where the team are weak is in their single lap pace _ which has hindered Schumacher's chances of decent grid positions.

"The only problem here was the lack of performance in qualifying," said Hamashima. "After that the pace was good for Michael until the retirement."
So that means that Ferrari's actual car has a crap race pace, not just the tyres
And were did you get that from? Crap race pace?
That's what I'm wondering too... So far the problem is Qualifying and reliability, and not race pace (maybe a little in the first part, but that's because Ferrari runs heavier and the tyres work better on the later stages of the race).
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Old 05-10-2005, 03:58 AM   #152
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Here comes the usual Irvine talk again.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/4530571.stm

Irvine believes Renault's Fernando Alonso is ready to take on the mantle.

"The guy's awesome. When the pressure's on, he doesn't seem to make mistakes like Michael does. He's the new king," Irvine told BBC Five Live.

"Kimi Raikkonen's up there as well. The guard is changing, and I think it's about time because Michael is the most boring world champion ever."

While Alonso has amassed an 18-point championship lead with three wins in five races, seven-time world champion Schumacher has struggled in the new Ferrari.


Ferrari blamed for tyre problems
The German has failed to finish three times to leave him on 10 points, 34 adrift of Alonso.

The only time Schumacher has seriously troubled Alonso was at the San Marino Grand Prix, when the Spaniard held him off to claim victory.

Irvine sees the 36-year-old's failure to attempt an aggressive overtaking move on Alonso in the closing stages at Imola as a sign of the times.

"All he had to do was put the car down the inside and say 'we either have an accident or you finish second'," said Irvine, who was Schumacher's Ferrari team-mate from 1996-99.

"There was no point in Michael finishing second to Alonso.

"He's done much more bad things than that. Maybe age is getting to him. Three years ago he would have done that."
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Old 05-10-2005, 11:25 PM   #153
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Well, it's is quite logical (and pathetic). You gotta comment on someone that's famous to get explosure. Try ask him to comment on the Minardi drivers or something, I bet the reporters just don't give a f**k.

IMO, if you are not better than the person you are bashing, STFU please.
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Old 05-13-2005, 03:12 PM   #154
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Bridgestone Conclude Tyre Investigation


Bridgestone believe that circumstances beyond their control were to blame for Michael Schumacher's double tyre failure at the Spanish Grand Prix after concluding their investigation into the blow-outs, Autosport-Atlas has learned.

The two left-hand side tyres on Schumacher's Ferrari that failed within three laps of each other at the Spanish Grand Prix were flown to Bridgestone's headquarters in Tokyo this week for a thorough examination to find the causes of the problem.

After looking at the tyres, and tyre pressure data produced by Ferrari, Bridgestone have discovered that the rear tyre failure was as a result of the tyre structure getting weakened during the early race Safety Car period, while the front tyre failed after being damaged by debris.

A Bridgestone spokesman told Autosport-Atlas: "The loss of air in the rear left tyre on lap 44 was likely to have been caused by the tyre pressure dropping during the Safety Car period at the start of the race.

"It is possible that as a result of the reduced pressure and the high forces placed on the left side tyres at the Barcelona circuit, the structure of the tyre was weakened. This resulted in the deflation.

"There are clear signs that the front left tyre, which deflated on lap 47, was damaged by an external object - most probably debris.

"It is unusual for this to have happened twice and on the same side but from the evidence the tyre deflations were caused by two very different reasons."

The conclusions from the Bridgestone investigation will provide some relief for Ferrari, because at least the failures were not the result of simple tyre wear - which would have been a cause for greater concern.

"The wear on the tyres was within acceptable levels with the grooves in place and although Rubens Barrichello, who was running the same specification of tyre as his teammate, experienced some blistering on his tyres, he did not report any similar issues," added the Bridgestone spokesman.

Bridgestone are now working on improvements to the tyres to ensure that future Safety Car periods do not lead to a repeat of the rear tyre failure.
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Old 05-13-2005, 10:19 PM   #155
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Just what F1 needs. If Toyota's points are taken away, the championship will be all screwed up. I vote to forget about it and get on with the racing!
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Old 05-14-2005, 03:47 AM   #156
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I think you could claim that there is some difference between not filling out some paperwork, and running an illegal fuel tank. One obviously has the possiblity of effecting your on track performance where the other does? I don't see the big deal with this TYPE of rule infraction.
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Old 05-14-2005, 06:05 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Ronin005
Originally Posted by phantomfocus
Just what F1 needs. If Toyota's points are taken away, the championship will be all screwed up. I vote to forget about it and get on with the racing!
and let people get away with this crap. it will only lead to other teams trying to get away with other shit.

i dont want to get off topic, put people complain about BAR's punishment. now if FIA didnt do something like the 2 race ban and did something more of a slap on the wrist then it would only encourage other teams to go ahead and break more rules.
That depends if you view is that they broke any rules or not :roll:

I think you could claim that there is some difference between not filling out some paperwork, and running an illegal fuel tank. One obviously has the possiblity of effecting your on track performance where the other does? I don't see the big deal with this TYPE of rule infraction.
The fuel tank is 110% completely legal, even the FIA agrees with that. At least 6 other teams run the same type of fuel tank from the same company as BAR - ATL. Also, using the FIA's own fuel pump and car weighing data, it can be proven that BAR were not underweight throughout the entire race and qualifying and therefore gained no performance advantage what so ever. This is backed up by BAR's own fuel consumption data. Tests have also shown that it is impossible to keep the engine going (and hence the car) without the fuel on the collector.

In this case, Toyota clearly have broken a rule, no doubt about it. And as many of you have been saying rules are rules....

Originally Posted by FIA Rules
LICENCES
10) All drivers, competitors and officials participating in the Championship must hold a FIA Super Licence.
Applications for Super Licences must be made to the FIA through the applicant's ASN.
The driver's name will remain on the list for Super Licences for one year.

I don't think either team should be punished harsly at all but there you go....
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Old 05-14-2005, 07:56 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Ronin005
Originally Posted by mindgam3

Originally Posted by FIA Rules
LICENCES
10) All drivers, competitors and officials participating in the Championship must hold a FIA Super Licence.
Applications for Super Licences must be made to the FIA through the applicant's ASN.
The driver's name will remain on the list for Super Licences for one year.

I don't think either team should be punished harsly at all but there you go....

so you agree that Toyota broke the rules, but shouldnt be punished harshly. so what would you consider a suitable punishment, that would deter them??
Who knows, i just feel the FIA should be consistent.

In BAR's case, they gained no advantage over anyone else.

Niether have toyota.

BAR, at the most can be accused of bending the rules, but its highly debatable (from both sides of the arguement) whether any actual rules were fully broken.

In the Toyota case, its clear cut: they don't have a licence and so according to the rules shouldn't have been allowed to race.

In both cases, the FIA knew about both of these things at the beginning of the season, why wait til now?

I don't think BAR should have their points taken away, a fine at the most, althougha million seems a little steep, even considering their budget.

Toyota should be fined at least as much as BAR. If the FIA were to be consistent then they should take away their points and ban them from 2 races like BAR, at least.
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Old 05-14-2005, 08:21 AM   #159
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I really don't get the FIA... How come they let this happen?! This should have been caught from day one. For me, this is FIA's fault as well as Toyota's.

So I don't think they should be punished hardly; maybe just a fine or something. I mean, it's not like they had any advantage with this...


And come on... This isn't comparable with B.A.R.'s case...
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Old 05-14-2005, 08:32 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by |Nuno|
I really don't get the FIA... How come they let this happen?! This should have been caught from day one. For me, this is FIA's fault as well as Toyota's.

So I don't think they should be punished hardly; maybe just a fine or something. I mean, it's not like they had any advantage with this...


And come on... This isn't comparable with B.A.R.'s case...
Of course it is!

How can you defend Toyota by saying its the FIA's fault when BAR had their tank and used it in the same manner as San Marion since december 2004 AND had it inspected and confirmed legal by FIA's own technical delegates and race director charlie whiting? Surely that shows you how mis-intepreted the rules are: If the FIA's own technical employees don't understand the rules, how can they acuse BAR of intepreting as the FIA didn't want them to??!?


As I said, the fact is, BAR gained no performance advantage and their tank was completely legal - this is what the FIA think as well. But questions on a few technicalities regarding the confusing and contradicting rules were raised. BAR didn't think what they were doing was illegal and niether did the stewards and race director.

Hence whether BAR broke the rules is hardly clear cut and could easily go one way or the other if, like myself you're none bias towards BAR.

Toyotas case is completely clear cut: they KNEW they were breaking one of the fundamental rules that is written in every motorsport championship regarding licences and there's no excuse.

Either way, my feeling is the FIA are going to be completely inconsistent with the Toyota ruling....
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Old 05-14-2005, 09:32 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by mindgam3
Originally Posted by |Nuno|
I really don't get the FIA... How come they let this happen?! This should have been caught from day one. For me, this is FIA's fault as well as Toyota's.

So I don't think they should be punished hardly; maybe just a fine or something. I mean, it's not like they had any advantage with this...


And come on... This isn't comparable with B.A.R.'s case...
Of course it is!

How can you defend Toyota by saying its the FIA's fault when BAR had their tank and used it in the same manner as San Marion since december 2004 AND had it inspected and confirmed legal by FIA's own technical delegates and race director charlie whiting? Surely that shows you how mis-intepreted the rules are: If the FIA's own technical employees don't understand the rules, how can they acuse BAR of intepreting as the FIA didn't want them to??!?


As I said, the fact is, BAR gained no performance advantage and their tank was completely legal - this is what the FIA think as well. But questions on a few technicalities regarding the confusing and contradicting rules were raised. BAR didn't think what they were doing was illegal and niether did the stewards and race director.

Hence whether BAR broke the rules is hardly clear cut and could easily go one way or the other if, like myself you're none bias towards BAR.

Toyotas case is completely clear cut: they KNEW they were breaking one of the fundamental rules that is written in every motorsport championship regarding licences and there's no excuse.

Either way, my feeling is the FIA are going to be completely inconsistent with the Toyota ruling....
For fuck's sake dude, we're talking about damn paperwork here!! It's not like it made the Toyota's go faster... :roll:

If they knew, so did the FIA - after all this is happening 5(!) races after the start of the season. So I keep my position: yes, they should be punished, but not severely. But if they're severely punished, I couldn't care less; I don't even like Toyota that much for a start... To think of it, it would actually benefit Ferrari...


And bringing B.A.R. to every subject is getting a bit tiring...
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Old 05-14-2005, 09:54 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by |Nuno|
For fuck's sake dude, we're talking about damn paperwork here!! It's not like it made the Toyota's go faster... :roll:

If they knew, so did the FIA - after all this is happening 5(!) races after the start of the season. So I keep my position: yes, they should be punished, but not severely. But if they're severely punished, I couldn't care less; I don't even like Toyota that much for a start... To think of it, it would actually benefit Ferrari...


And bringing B.A.R. to every subject is getting a bit tiring...
lol, i'm not bringing BAR in just for the sake of it. I'm bringing them up because they're relevant.

BAR didn't get ANY performance advantage from their fuel tank, thats is an underlying FACT.

What I'm getting at, is if you look at the wider picture, Toyota has commited a more offending offence than BAR, but I doubt Toyota will get the same punishment.

You made a big deal about the fact you were certain BAR were 100% cheating yet you're not so sure about Toyota?

BAR didn't gain any performance advanatage
Toyota didn't gain any performance adavantage

Whether BAR broke any rules is highly debatable.
Whether Toyota broke any rules is clear cut.

So why shouldn't Toyota get a bigger fine/ban than BAR?

Are you 100% sure Toyota cheated? Because that's what you said about BAR even though no performance advantage was gained and the offence came down to how you intepret the rules.... :roll:

To think of it, it would actually benefit Ferrari...
Well with what could be two teams, 4 drivers out of competition for the championship due to the FIA, no suprise there then
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Old 05-14-2005, 10:45 AM   #163
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BAR didn't get ANY performance advantage from their fuel tank, thats is an underlying FACT.
I tought it already had been established that the fuel tank by itself wasn't the problem.

You made a big deal about the fact you were certain BAR were 100% cheating yet you're not so sure about Toyota?
Pardon me?! I made a big deal?! I merely agreed with the FIA's decision mate... And I'm not the one bringing the B.A.R. subject to every thread...

So why shouldn't Toyota get a bigger fine/ban than BAR?
For me, they shouldn't get a bigger punishment because this is paperwork business, and not on-track action business. Just that, I relly don't care too much about paperwork.

If the situation was the other way around (Toyota with the weight thingy and B.A.R. with this) my opinion would be the same, so please stop talking like if I was defending Toyota and atacking B.A.R.

As I said before, I actually like(d) B.A.R. more than Toyota.

Are you 100% sure Toyota cheated? Because that's what you said about BAR even though no performance advantage was gained and the offence came down to how you intepret the rules.... :roll:
For the last time: why would you interpret the rules on a different way, taking the risk of being punished, if not to gain any advantage?

This is F1, everyone wants to win...and nobody's a saint.

Well with what could be two teams, 4 drivers out of competition for the championship due to the FIA, no suprise there then
Haha, I was surprised you had not mentioned this before. Next thing, it was Ferrari who stole Toyota's paperwork.



And on a side note, why do you always have to pick on my posts? Because last time I checked, I had the right to have a different opinion than yours...
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Old 05-14-2005, 10:48 AM   #164
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I smell fire
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Old 05-14-2005, 12:17 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by SFDMALEX
I smell fire
Haha, no. It's just that I and mindgam3 don't seem to agree on certain things. Nothing major tough. 8)
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