motor

Sir_GT · 02-03-2005, 01:06 AM

Mark my words:

BIGGEST FLOP EVER

I can smell it so bad, it reeks of it.

Too heavy
Too pricey
Too hyped
Too "compensated"

Watch... it'll become the biggest automotive flop in the history of the automobile. Sort of like the equivalent of the Y2K bug, except with a $1m price tag on it, and VW bosses's heads on a stick.

philios55 · 02-03-2005, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by SilviaEvo

well my take on the Veyron is that it is a huge monstorous beast that will eat baby Vettes alive!!! btw the topic name is spelt wrong.

Thanks, i just correct it!

Cockrocket · 02-03-2005, 02:36 PM

haha...Bugatti's last car was a complete flop..the EB110 or whatever it was called was as bigger a flop as the XJ220 do to it being released during the time when Supercars were not popular!!..

Bugatti Veyron...a.k.a.. Spiced up VW Beetle

Cockrocket · 02-03-2005, 06:02 PM

the reason why it was made in high quantities was precisely because of the reason i expressed. Just because MS owns does not count for or against the successfullness of the car, rather that a car enthusiast with a lot of money wants one of the few floppy cars. The engine is as ridiculouse as the veyrons, it had a v12 with 4 turbos producing only 600bhp, while the NA V12 of the Mclaren F1 produced 627bhp. No real point in continueing this discussion as we both have views which i doubt the other would alter

Back to Topic: Who would have the balls to drive the 2 tonne veyron over 200mph when all the way through its development it is unstable and the tires cannot take the strain!

noliebro · 02-03-2005, 08:25 PM

I think that the desighners should keep the fog lights on the car, gives it a nice look. LOL

ikon2003 · 02-03-2005, 11:00 PM

Interesting info and pics everyone. Those 14 inch wide rear tires must come in handy for that snow, if properly treaded. Not a bad way to test AWD i think. but maybe they could stop testing one day, and finally release it? nah...

Sir_GT · 02-03-2005, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by everso

Originally Posted by Sir_GT

Mark my words:

BIGGEST FLOP EVER

I can smell it so bad, it reeks of it.

Too heavy
Too pricey
Too hyped
Too "compensated"

Watch... it'll become the biggest automotive flop in the history of the automobile. Sort of like the equivalent of the Y2K bug, except with a $1m price tag on it, and VW bosses's heads on a stick.

Bugatti has never released a "flop"....they won't release the car until they KNOW it's perfect to their standards. the VAG group is prepared to keep spending money on it until it's perfect. I don't think it will flop....it simply won't be allowed

I never said Bugatti released flops. The Veyron project and it's child will be. It was engineered in the wrong direction, by people who were not capable of doing it. They put an ex-le mans racer and banker in the helm to practically rescue the project, which is why it's been pushed back so many times. It's like trying to make michael jackson white, but they used to wrong plan, so the whole procedure turned into a huge mess, and now they're trying to use plastic surgery to repair the plastic surgery.

They need to can the Veyron and start again from scratch. The only reason they're carrying on is because they've already stuck their foot so far down their throat, they can't pull it back out again, or else they'll be the biggest laughing stock in Germany.

It was doomed from the beginning. It doesn't matter how much money they throw at it... kinda like the Iraq war. It's a complete and utter mess, and all they're doing is trying to cover it with expensive sand.

Watch. It'll never crack 240, and it'll not accelerate faster than an Enzo. It'll be the biggest, most worthless, flop. Ever.

stradale · 02-04-2005, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by everso

i don't think Bugatti is out to play games with this car...they've never released a car which was a letdown...i can't see them starting now.

Originally Posted by everso

Bugatti has never released a "flop"....

Everso, you keep referring to some kind of Bugatti trackrecord, but I don't think that actually exists. Ettore Bugatti's Bugatti is history for a long time now. Roman Artioli's Bugatti is dead for a while as well, during which period they only produced the EB110 in two variants and a number of concepts that never reached the production stage. I agree that the EB110 wasn't a bad car, but it wasn't fully developed and, difficult economic circumstances or not, it wasn't a success. The car itself wasn't a flop, but the project as a whole was, just like the XJ220.
For the Veyron project however, even Artioli's Bugatti is not part of any trackrecord. This car is being designed, tested, built and, if all goes well, sold by an entirely new VAG team. Even the factory is new. Virtually nothing of what remained of Artioli's project ended up at VAG, except the brand name.

I agree with you that VAG will not let this car be released with dodgy handling and poor reliability. It'll definitely be brutally fast too. But whether it will provide a driving experience that can match its rivals on an emotional level remains to be seen. I'm very curious about the end result.

@ twboy: You're not the only one who thinks its looks are awful. I think it looks like a beetle (the bug, not the car) with a pig's nose. And don't get me started on the interior...

ikon2003 · 02-04-2005, 11:27 AM

^i agree w/ some of the things you say on bugatti and flops - they have a less than stellar record. That can also be attributed to the fact that they're such a low volume manufacturer that they hardly ever have any practice at doing this. That's no excuse for their myriad delays of the veyron tho. Bugatti: Get Better.

dylan99 · 02-04-2005, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by ikon2003

^i agree w/ some of the things you say on bugatti and flops - they have a less than stellar record. That can also be attributed to the fact that they're such a low volume manufacturer that they hardly ever have any practice at doing this. That's no excuse for their myriad delays of the veyron tho. Bugatti: Get Better.

Rubbish, Bugatti is Volkswagen!!!!!!!!!

JoeHahn · 02-04-2005, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Sir_GT

Watch. It'll never crack 240, and it'll not accelerate faster than an Enzo. It'll be the biggest, most worthless, flop. Ever.

You're dreaming, this car will destroy the Enzo in straight line performance. Bias aside, you would have seen that...

mindgam3 · 02-05-2005, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by everso

Originally Posted by stradale

Everso, you keep referring to some kind of Bugatti trackrecord, but I don't think that actually exists. Ettore Bugatti's Bugatti is history for a long time now. Roman Artioli's Bugatti is dead for a while as well, during which period they only produced the EB110 in two variants and a number of concepts that never reached the production stage. I agree that the EB110 wasn't a bad car, but it wasn't fully developed and, difficult economic circumstances or not, it wasn't a success. The car itself wasn't a flop, but the project as a whole was, just like the XJ220.
For the Veyron project however, even Artioli's Bugatti is not part of any trackrecord. This car is being designed, tested, built and, if all goes well, sold by an entirely new VAG team. Even the factory is new. Virtually nothing of what remained of Artioli's project ended up at VAG, except the brand name.

I agree with you that VAG will not let this car be released with dodgy handling and poor reliability. It'll definitely be brutally fast too. But whether it will provide a driving experience that can match its rivals on an emotional level remains to be seen. I'm very curious about the end result.

well yeah, i do agree with you 100% that the Bugatti Auto group is pretty much a mere extension of the VAG group. the original "Bugatti" is long gone....however the sole purpose of VAG to even revive/keep alive the Bugatti company was to try and return it to its performance and image roots. VAG wanted the Bugatti name to return to the status it had back in the day...i think their goals are running along the same ambitions.

only 149 EB110s were ever produced....so i really don't think there was room for the car to flop....and like you said, the car itself was actually a solid performer...it wasn't the greatest supercar in the world, but it was worthy of supercar status i think.

BTW, i recieved my 1:43 model today! I'm guessing it has *at least* 10hp! LOL

How come there was 21 left over unused EB110 chassis's left over after production had finished then?

and also, how come Bugatti went out of business in 1995?

Sir_GT · 02-05-2005, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by JoeHahn

Originally Posted by Sir_GT

Watch. It'll never crack 240, and it'll not accelerate faster than an Enzo. It'll be the biggest, most worthless, flop. Ever.

You're dreaming, this car will destroy the Enzo in straight line performance. Bias aside, you would have seen that...

Nope, you're the one that's dreaming. The Veyron will be the biggest case of "pure hype, never right" ever. Modern day cars are too heavy to crack 3 seconds, as most F1 engineers will tell you. You have to drop below the magic 1k weight, to crack 3 seconds, and the Veyron almost weighs twice that. Why do you think the F40 and F50 are still incredibly quick compared to the Enzo? Why do you think the Macca can't be beaten? Modern day production cars have too many safety requirements placed on them, adding to their weight, limiting their ability to move quickly. The extra bhp gained by the engine only help "catch" the imbalance brought about by legislation. Best way to approach the problem is the way Gordon Murray did with the McLaren: concentrate on keeping everything as light as technologically possible, and try to produce as much as you can from the engine, without adding more weight than expected.

Hence the McLaren F1.

But look at the Veyron: over-riddled with weighty items such as luxury goods, modern safety features, and other unneeded parts. Throw in sub-par engineering, in which the needed power was brought about by adding FOUR turbos, which of course, means that the transmission has to be beefed up, which means more weight, which again, translates to demerits for the car's targeted performance goal.

Why do you think the Enzo's design was pretty much constructed in a wind tunnel and a carbon fibre plant? It was built with speed in mind, nothing else.

The Veyron will never out-accelerate the Enzo, and it will not crack 240. Mark my words.

JoeHahn · 02-05-2005, 08:30 PM

Yep, this car will most likely hit 124 mph when the Enzo is hitting 100 the torque will simply make it a class above. I will take your word that it wont accelerate faster than an Enzo, then I wont look silly when it comes out and totally demolishes it. People keep referring back to a 2 tonne weight which is simply rediculous, people just dont want to see this car achieve its goals and keep saying its 2 tonnes. I also wont look silly when it comes out and the kerb weight being nowhere near 2 tonnes

Sir_GT · 02-06-2005, 01:26 AM

That's not me you're talking about. I'm always FOR cars breaking records. I don't care what brand. It just isn't physically possible for the Veyron to do so. I seriously wish the tried a different approach. Two clutches? imagine what that thing is attached to? What about the four turbos? Imagine the drivetrain needed to cope with that kind of torque? How much will that weigh? It also doesn't help that one of the engineers from the Macca's core team said that it is impossible to a certain amount of power down on the road at one time, because of the contact patch of the tires, irregardless of weight. He said that once you add the actual weight of the car, then the problem grows.

200-300 pounds more than the enzo is like having a really fat bloke holding you down all the time. They NEED to drop the 300 pounds, not add more.