China may buy GM/ Chrysler

[graywolf624]

Actually you are very much in the minority.

If I am thats mostly their own damn fault. Instead of buying big screen TVs, new cars, etc if they invested their money in their 401ks they would be able to invest in any country in the world.

The folks who supposedly knew ho wit all works steared market after market into chaos.

Or could it be that the people in charge, who are not the educated, made stupid decisions and steered us into chaos.. Oh wait they did. Cutting interest rates to constantly juice the economy, not putting regulations in place around the credit crisis, deregulating but not following up to see if the regs they left in place unbalanced the system, and unrestrained govt spending wastes.. Those are the culprits clearly.

[graywolf624]

Maybe it's better to look at this from what happens if your protectionist theories come into play. First anyone that works for a foreign auto company in the US will lose their job or if you take a slightly less rash approach thousands will be laid off. Then since GM is selling their cars at a loss due to union labor and they dont have a competitor that can compete at normal labor cost levels, they'll jack their price up. Now suddenly Joe Schmoes Focus costs 25k instead of 16k. What does that do to the ability of Americans to buy cars and by defacto the real income and standard of living of this country? Thats right it goes down. One industry would be a minor blip, but you do it in one and like the bailout disease it will spread to all. The real income rich or poor will decrease. The jobs still disappear as the economy isn't recovering (which is the only way jobs will go back up) and the number of cars drops due to the cost increase.

Jimmy Carters is calling, he wants his ideas back.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 If I am thats mostly their own damn fault. Instead of buying big screen TVs, new cars, etc if they invested their money in their 401ks they would be able to invest in any country in the world.

I see you have been caught up in the elitism of you own success a little

Not everyone with a job in the US (or even the world) has/had exposure to a) pay high enough to yield excess income for investment, b) worked for a 401k enabled company.

Originally Posted by graywolf624 Or could it be that the people in charge, who are not the educated, made stupid decisions and steered us into chaos.. Oh wait they did. Cutting interest rates to constantly juice the economy, not putting regulations in place around the credit crisis, deregulating but not following up to see if the regs they left in place unbalanced the system, and unrestrained govt spending wastes.. Those are the culprits clearly.

Again, another very elitist view that cannot be supported as you will have the wrld believe every person in the world in power is uneducated and stupid.

No my friend, the "economic educated elite" are the ones who were happy to use these "conditions" to milk trillions from the global economy with littl to no long term plans for sustaining the utopia. You cant have your cake and eat it - as in a want laissez-faire economy tp profi from but cry "no regulation" foul when it doesnt go your way and all implodes

Originally Posted by graywolf624 Maybe it's better to look at this from what happens if your protectionist theories come into play. First anyone that works for a foreign auto company in the US will lose their job or if you take a slightly less rash approach thousands will be laid off. Then since GM is selling their cars at a loss due to union labor and they dont have a competitor that can compete at normal labor cost levels, they'll jack their price up. Now suddenly Joe Schmoes Focus costs 25k instead of 16k. What does that do to the ability of Americans to buy cars and by defacto the real income and standard of living of this country? Thats right it goes down. One industry would be a minor blip, but you do it in one and like the bailout disease it will spread to all. The real income rich or poor will decrease. The jobs still disappear as the economy isn't recovering (which is the only way jobs will go back up) and the number of cars drops due to the cost increase. Jimmy Carters is calling, he wants his ideas back.

Had the foreign auto companies not been allowed to build plants until reciprocal plants had been built back in Japan perhaps the problem would not be this deep.

Instead of being hell bent on improving the state of the Japanese auto companies bottom line, perhaps a more strategic outlook would have been to make sure the US would be a strategic player 100 years from now instead of raping and pilaging the market for today with no thought for tomorrow.

Unless the majority of folks view the USA as a failed experiment and figure the entire country may as wel fold up and be absorbed by the world.

My facetious "protectionist" theory is what a proud country would end up doing naturally, protecting its own interest while growing its neighbours - not growing its neighbours (for a few elite profiteers) at its own strategic expense.

I guess the current state of affairs might just be a sad endorsement of the failure of democraticly fostered laissez-faire capitalism... say it aint so.

p.s. the current state of affairs is no longer a theory - its a reality - the world is hurting

[nthfinity]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27791141/

President-elect has said second stimulus package a top priority

WASHINGTON - A group of business executives on Tuesday urged President-elect Barack Obama to "quickly implement" a large stimulus package soon after taking office.
The recommendation came from a group of executives meeting at a conference sponsored by The Wall Street Journal. The group included Lloyd Blankfein, chief executive of Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Jeffrey Bewkes, CEO of Time Warner Inc., and Wachovia Corp. CEO Robert Steel.

About 100 CEOs at the conference divided into four groups to formulate recommendations for Obama in different areas, including energy, health care, the international economy and the U.S. economy.

The recommendation on the stimulus echoes comments made by a top Obama adviser late Monday. In a speech to the conference, Larry Summers cited a report by Goldman Sachs that suggested the stimulus should be in the range of $500 billion to $700 billion.

Summers, a former Treasury Secretary under President Clinton, is widely considered a top candidate for the same job in the Obama administration.

Days after winning the election, Obama said if a second stimulus package does not get done in the current lame-duck session of Congress, "it will be the first thing I get done as president of the United States."

-------------------------------
obama would totally do it, and already had plans for a 2nd stimulus. WTF....

[10000rpmlover]

^^ and just where the hell is Jesus H Obama going to get all that money from? it's not like the government is swimming in money right now, they just forked out 700 Billion

stimulus? of what? how many people live in US? now divide that 500-700b between everybody living in US and that is how much each woman, child and man will have to pay and when people finally say:
"FORGET THIS CRAP, I AM NOT PAYING F%$# YOU BARRACK!!!!" and take to the streets in a civil unrest of massive proportions don't say that there weren't any warning signs flaring at them every day

[Mattk]

RC, one thing that you've based many of your arguments on is the fact that foreign-owned factories are in the US. That in itself is not a bad thing. Americans get manufacturing jobs, the cars sold result in gain for those in associated service sectors, and consumers get more choice and cheaper cars. Sure, ultimately, money will head back to Toyota, but not after Americans have had their fill.

[graywolf624]

Not everyone with a job in the US (or even the world) has/had exposure to a) pay high enough to yield excess income for investment, b) worked for a 401k enabled company.

While true, its also quite true that the majority of the middle class could be saving more if they werent buying frivilous things. Statistics and personal observations show that. We wouldnt be having anywhere near the forclosures we are seeing if that wasnt true.

Again, another very elitist view that cannot be supported as you will have the wrld believe every person in the world in power is uneducated and stupid.

Corrupt is more like it. Corrupt with no economics background. None of our politicians are economists last time I checked.

- as in a want laissez-faire economy tp profi from but cry "no regulation" foul when it doesnt go your way and all implodes

I'm not doing that. We dont have a free market even now. What I am saying is.. If you deregulate your still leaving regulations in place. Those regulations can create an inefficiency in the market if not balanced. So unless you want to go 100 percent free market, some new regulations are useful to counter balance the ones you wont remove.

democraticly fostered laissez-faire capitalism... say it aint so.

Only one problem. We dont have and havent in my lifetime had laissez faire capitalism. What your seeing is a failure of the degree of socialism we currently sit at.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Mattk RC, one thing that you've based many of your arguments on is the fact that foreign-owned factories are in the US. That in itself is not a bad thing. Americans get manufacturing jobs, the cars sold result in gain for those in associated service sectors, and consumers get more choice and cheaper cars. Sure, ultimately, money will head back to Toyota, but not after Americans have had their fill.

Yes - and I have always said that there shoul dbe a reciprocal trade requirement to FORCE the fuurin country to allow a similar factory be built in the home land.

So for every Toyota plant in the US, there would be a GM or Ford or Chrysler plant in Japan churning out asian micro cars - the same way the Jalanese plants (and German plants) churn out US market SUV's and pickup trucks for sale here.

This "global economy" is fine, as long as we win and the other guy loses everytime - because when we dont play the game that way, then they win and we lose.

And after all - life is all about winning.

[Alelanza]

Originally Posted by RC45 Yes - and I have always said that there shoul dbe a reciprocal trade requirement to FORCE the fuurin country to allow a similar factory be built in the home land. So for every Toyota plant in the US, there would be a GM or Ford or Chrysler plant in Japan churning out asian micro cars - the same way the Jalanese plants (and German plants) churn out US market SUV's and pickup trucks for sale here. This "global economy" is fine, as long as we win and the other guy loses everytime - because when we dont play the game that way, then they win and we lose. And after all - life is all about winning.

I didn't know there are/were restrictions on US manufacturers building plants in foreign countries. I always assumed it was more a case of 'they took our jobs!' (think south park)
Is this Japan only? or other countries as well?

[pitfield]

Originally Posted by HeilSvenska NEVER! It's bad enough that technology is always being stolen by the Chinese everyday...

Haha, and America can talk.