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Old 11-12-2008, 01:38 PM   #16
RC45
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Originally Posted by Mattk View Post
Buick in China will be what saves GM, if it can be saved at all. It is a brand it cannot afford to cut.
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If Buicks were all built in China, then this would be true, but all GM cars built in the US carry around their neck the legacy of United Auto Worker union contracts - THAT is what is killing GM, and Ford.

The sooner they can rid themselves of this insane fixed cost the better. BUt it looks like this will not happen, as Nazi Palosi is gunning to get the Feds to "save" the big 3 - ostensibly to save the workers, but the real reason is so tht the Unions can get their grubby hands on their $7 to $10 Billion trust payment now rather than risk not getting it.

Liberal labour at work - byebye US automakers - the Unions have killed you off.
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Old 11-12-2008, 02:03 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by RC45 View Post
If Buicks were all built in China, then this would be true, but all GM cars built in the US carry around their neck the legacy of United Auto Worker union contracts - THAT is what is killing GM, and Ford.

The sooner they can rid themselves of this insane fixed cost the better. BUt it looks like this will not happen, as Nazi Palosi is gunning to get the Feds to "save" the big 3 - ostensibly to save the workers, but the real reason is so tht the Unions can get their grubby hands on their $7 to $10 Billion trust payment now rather than risk not getting it.

Liberal labour at work - byebye US automakers - the Unions have killed you off.
What will happend whit the cobalt brand?
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Old 11-12-2008, 02:04 PM   #18
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There isn't a Cobalt brand. It's a car name.
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:42 PM   #19
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I thought the UAW had already been significantly weakened over the last few decades. I didn't know it was still that strong. Still, I guess you're right in principle because the presence of unions harms corporate adaptability. Collectivity in a capitalist world just doesn't fit.
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:59 AM   #20
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Agree with RC45.....trade unions around the world have caused such inflexibility in the labour markets....it is so ironic that institutions that were originally set up to defend the rights of the weaker members of society (the blue collar workers) are the reason for their downfall....what makes people think that being members of these TU's will help them along the way when the people that run these institutions are just power/money crazy dogs???

Bring back Thatcher I say, along with Denis if we must! There can never b a really "free" market when the labour market is so thoroughly controlled by a handful of people.
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Old 11-13-2008, 08:24 AM   #21
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Trade unions help dumb people get more money than they are worth. That's the attraction. Much easier to negotiate with an employer if you can get a large mass together and say "pay us more or you'll have no work force to pay".
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:38 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Mattk View Post
Trade unions help dumb people get more money than they are worth. That's the attraction. Much easier to negotiate with an employer if you can get a large mass together and say "pay us more or you'll have no work force to pay".
it's not necessarily more then they are worth; as much as absolutely absurd agreements that Brass made with Union thug-leaders. Not unlike the Jobs Bank. Any laid-off employee continues to get paid something like 80% of their hourly rate for up to 24 months (maybe longer? ) as long as they show up to their Jobs Bank location on time. They don't have to do anything there... they can eat, sleep, watch TV, read a paper, book etc. And stay there for 8 hours. How ludicrous is that? (the actual agreement may be a bit different; but not by much!)

And yes, sometimes they are overpaid. Who ever heard of earning tripple time for working Sundays? Why only offer those with the most seniority those hours? Why allow them to file grievences because of their own faulty mistakes -
Boss "Why don't you wear your safety glasses"
Union worker - "........."
20 minutes later, a piece of slag hits his eyes, worker is out for a week or two, and files a grievance against his boss stating reason "My boss did not watch me, or force me to wear my safety glasses"

Boss is potentially terminated for such issues...
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:23 PM   #23
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I wonder what will happend whit the european gm brands like opel and vauxhall and saab if gm go's down?
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:26 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by pagani View Post
I wonder what will happend whit the european gm brands like opel and vauxhall and saab if gm go's down?
Globally GM and Ford are not hindered by legacy union costs - so the "going under" of GM or Ford would be a restructuring under bankruptcy court - this would probably leave the other global components of the companies functioning.
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:25 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by RC45 View Post
Globally GM and Ford are not hindered by legacy union costs - so the "going under" of GM or Ford would be a restructuring under bankruptcy court - this would probably leave the other global components of the companies functioning.
So maby the bankruptcy could be a good thing?
Leaner meaner gm?
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