motor

5vz-fe · 04-25-2005, 02:58 PM

Toyota: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/4482895.stm

BAR: http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlin...25171742.shtml

man, bunch of crying babies. They were the ppl who wanted to limit testing time (hoping that Ferrari will follow and getting a tire advantage) in the first place. Now that Ferrari chose to bare with the rival team pressure and cont. with testing, they start moaning.....

|Nuno| · 04-25-2005, 04:00 PM

Haha, funny people... When Ferrari was behind everything was fine, but now that they're catching up they have to make up excuses already... Focus on your team, damn it!

And the teams complaining test at least as much as Ferrari, and also refused Ferrari's test limit proposal... Go figure.

And I don't see them complaining about Michelin's ~120000 Kilometers of testing versus Bridgestone's ~20000... :roll:

ZfrkS62 · 04-25-2005, 04:49 PM

what everyone is saying:

What Ferrari hears:

mindgam3 · 04-25-2005, 05:52 PM

Well all other teams have agreed to a a certain amount of testing, why can't Ferrari...

To turn it the other way round, i dindt seen michelin runners saying they didn't have enough testing when Ferrari was ahead.

Tyres are only one factor that determines performance. Take BAR, they've had a whole new aero package and look how much that improved their car.

Put it the other way round dani_d_mass.... most but ferrari can only test on certain test days, ferrari can test whenever they want with their dedicated test team and drivers....

Either way if it continues, it'll just force all the other teams to break their agreement and test more which will just hurt the smaller teams even more

|Nuno| · 04-25-2005, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by mindgam3

Well all other teams have agreed to a a certain amount of testing, why can't Ferrari...

Because that limit is pretty useless to start with. Also, it would mean that Michelin would have even more data compared to Bridgestone. In other words, that agreement would hurt Ferrari. But since Ferrari didn't accept it, they tried to make them look like the "bad guys"...

To turn it the other way round, i dindt seen michelin runners saying they didn't have enough testing when Ferrari was ahead.

They're doing it now by saying that "Ferrari tests too much"...

Tyres are only one factor that determines performance.

A huge factor.

most but ferrari can only test on certain test days, ferrari can test whenever they want with their dedicated test team and drivers....

That doesn't mean they do it.

Example: if they wanted to, they could have tested at Imola in the week before the Grand Prix, which they didn't. Besides, they're following their own test limit; after all, Ferrari doesn't have unlimited resources...

But that's not even the problem... Problem is: the people whining test at least as much as Ferrari, but only complain when things aren't going well...

Maybe that's why some of those people are in F1 for some years now with the biggest budget in the sport, and yet the best they can do is to get some podiums...

Better focus on their own team I'd say...

Anyway, you know what would end alot of this bullshit?

A single tyre manufacturer, now that would be something. Many of these problems would no longer exist. Only if I was in charge... Oh well...

5vz-fe · 04-25-2005, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by |Nuno|

Tyres are only one factor that determines performance.

A huge factor.

Totally agree, no matter how efficient ur aero package or power package, without a proper means of putting those down to the road is useless. All things and build on the tires...that is why Ferrari has a big advantage in 2002 when they begin to build their car around the Bridgestone tires.

gobs3z · 04-25-2005, 07:14 PM

Well couldn't you say that Ferrari/Bridgestone is possbly at an advantage since they are the only car to use them. The Bridgestone is specifically made for the Ferrari F1 car while Michelin is made for F1 in general. Just a different way of looking at it, but i agree that complaining will get you nowhere since they all had the same amount of time to get testing done. And Ralf Schumacher is jealous as always, he needs to learn to work.

5vz-fe · 04-25-2005, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by gobs3z

Well couldn't you say that Ferrari/Bridgestone is possbly at an advantage since they are the only car to use them. The Bridgestone is specifically made for the Ferrari F1 car while Michelin is made for F1 in general. Just a different way of looking at it, but i agree that complaining will get you nowhere since they all had the same amount of time to get testing done. And Ralf Schumacher is jealous as always, he needs to learn to work.

I don't think there is a big advantage (if any) for Ferrari. Long time ago, teams don't build their cars around tires, but they've learned and they worked closely with tire manufacture during the developement of the car these days. So in away, both Ferrari and say Renault are building around their own tire provider. There should be no advatage in that (of course, unless someone is doing a better/worse of a job)

|Nuno| · 04-26-2005, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Ronin005

and Nuno, back in the 80's there was only one tire supplier. Goodyear it think it was.

Yep, good times... And it was the same in 2000 I think...

@ gobs3z: that was an advantage back in 2002, but not anymore as it was explained above.

5vz-fe · 04-26-2005, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by dani_d_mas

The competence between Michelin and Bridgestone is also good... because it just makes the tyres better and better... but nowadays, being Ferrari the only top-team with Bridgestone... and BAR, McLaren, Williams, Renault... with Michelin... this means that Ferrari must do more tests just to offer Bridgestone the same data the other teams offer to Michelin.

That is also the main point of the "Gentlemen's" agreement. B*LL SH*T, what a bunch of crap talking ppl. The use the fanciest reason, cost reduction, to cover up their real intention, handicaping Ferrari.

|Nuno| · 04-26-2005, 04:53 PM

Neat list, thanks man.

Sm@ck · 04-26-2005, 05:23 PM

Brigestone can support more teams if they want to.

I agree with Ralf Schumacher on this one. It is unsportsman like behavior from Ferrari. Besides it is really shortsighted of them. IF they continue to do it this year, I can see the teams drop the "gentlemans agreement on testing" for next year. The result of that could be that sooner or later Toyota would probably dominate F1, imo. You only have to look at the amount of cash Toyota has (most proftiable carmaker), sooner or later they would be rewarded. Toyota can outspend any other team in F1, if they want to.

5vz-fe · 04-26-2005, 05:30 PM

I don't think Ferrari care if the teams drop out of the "gentlemans agreement", they are just trying to get Bridgestone the data they need for developing a tire that will last the entire race. For that fact, I really don't see any "un-ethicalness" on that. Thx FIA.

Having said that, I am looking forward to them bring back the old qualifying.

|Nuno| · 04-26-2005, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Sm@ck

Toyota can outspend any other team in F1, if they want to.

They're already doing it, and look at the results... Money isn't everything; you have to know how to spend it.

And people are missing the point:

Less testing DOES NOT reduce costs. If the teams can't spend money in testing, they'll do it elsewhere. Plain and simple.

So no, the "Gentlemans Agreement" isn't reducing costs. And there's no big difference in testing miles as well...

ikon2003 · 04-26-2005, 08:04 PM

I would have to say: Funny. Ironic. Typical.

This is classic economic game theory, and Ferrari is playing their cards well. IMO, their reasons are very valid, and their actions are justified. The interesting part is always seeing how the other teams attempt deviate in order to gain advantage.... good stuff.