Delphi sells its suspension arm to the Chinese

[Mattk]

Mate, China hasn't been an enemy of the United States for around 30 years. The first and third communiques were the work of Cold Warriors Nixon and Reagan, so it wasn't just all the peace and love man Carter.

But I do think we are coming to an agreement with some things. Moving away from Delphi, I think you're definitely right about keeping some things for yourself. For instance, I am generally opposed to selling off bits of Australian mining companies to Chinese investment conglomerates.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Mattk Mate, China hasn't been an enemy of the United States for around 30 years. The first and third communiques were the work of Cold Warriors Nixon and Reagan, so it wasn't just all the peace and love man Carter. But I do think we are coming to an agreement with some things. Moving away from Delphi, I think you're definitely right about keeping some things for yourself. For instance, I am generally opposed to selling off bits of Australian mining companies to Chinese investment conglomerates.

Sorry "Mate" - but China is an enemy of every western democracy.

Period.

To think other wise is very naive and foolish.

I guess you must not get the real news where you live.

The news about arrests, charges of treason on westerners, stalking western ships in international waters etc etc etc.

So - has China ever done anything to show that it has peaceful intensions with the rest of the world?

Oppressed Chinese rural provinces, oppression in Mongolia, Tibet - lack of military openness, Chinese state support of hacker communities and sponsorship of terrorism via weapons and training around the world.

[Mattk]

All true, yet no Western democracy has come close to failing because of whatever China does. The US is still as strong as ever since the Three Communiques. China's focus is keeping control over their own population. If they're trying to bring down democracy, they're doing a pretty shit job of it. They also have no desire to cripple the hand that is feeding them.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Mattk All true, yet no Western democracy has come close to failing because of whatever China does. The US is still as strong as ever since the Three Communiques. China's focus is keeping control over their own population. If they're trying to bring down democracy, they're doing a pretty shit job of it. They also have no desire to cripple the hand that is feeding them.

Wrong again.

You didnt live through the Chinese assualt on Africa. The Russians coming down the west coast and the Red Chinese coming down the east coast - and with full scale conflicts funded fueled adn backed by the Chinese as late as 1998 continuing now under the guise of "islamic terror cells'

The west in particular is very misguided to think that only islamic militant money is behind the continued miltary backed unrest in Africa - the Chinese are still the major silent partner at work.

They have every desire to cripple the hand that is feeding them, it is only feeding them because of a very clever long term strategy put forward by the Chinese... a tactic they invented.

Keep you friends close, but your enemies closer.

The US was suckered into abandoning Taiwan. You think that was a choice of the US? No sir, it was masterful negotiations by the Chinese.

Dont you find it very strange that of all the "break away democrasies" the US (and the rest of the world) chose to NOT support, was the one single break away democracy that could be used against the last huge communist country?

Again, strategic failure on the aprt of the west, strategic genius on the part of the Chinese.

In a past life I was tasked with leading a group that studied and observed Chinese behaviour in Africa - the sad reality is that becuase the west never dismantled the Chinese communist machine, they will prevail and eventually will achieve their ultimate longterm goal of global expansion.

Their people have to go somewhere, and we happen to be living in their future homes

[Mattk]

I'm not entirely convinced Africa is the bastion of Western democracy considering it is not in the West and their democracy is not going great. True nonetheless, especially Sudan, but beside the point.

Taiwan is still supported by the US, in a limited sense, at least militarily. I don't think China will be attacking Taiwan anytime soon. Or ever.

Their people have to go somewhere, and we happen to be living in their future homes

What a racist attitude. So if a Chinese man bought a house in your street you would instantly consider him an enemy subject trying to undermine American democracy?

[10000rpmlover]

the only 2 exports I like from the chinese are

1) wonton

2) Bai Ling (just because she is so loose I may even have a chance)

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Mattk I'm not entirely convinced Africa is the bastion of Western democracy considering it is not in the West and their democracy is not going great. True nonetheless, especially Sudan, but beside the point.

Did youget taught any non-revisionist politicla history at your schools?

You do kno wthat the US and Russia and China actually fought a surrogate war against each other all through the 70's and 80's in Afiica... oh wait that's right, the west was so obsessed with South Africa they failed to see the their government were scolding South Africa from one side of their mouths while sending cash for gold/platinum/aluminium/diamonds and uranium with the other. And the Russians and Chinese were using local warlords to do their dirty work.

Originally Posted by Mattk Taiwan is still supported by the US, in a limited sense, at least militarily. I don't think China will be attacking Taiwan anytime soon. Or ever.

Barely supported, it is not even recognised as a legitimate country. The west and the US give more recognition to Hezbollah than they do Taiwan.

Originally Posted by Mattk What a racist attitude. So if a Chinese man bought a house in your street you would instantly consider him an enemy subject trying to undermine American democracy?

Nice. Way to stoop right to the "racist racist racist" cry.

First off, unlike most everyone else (and I sure you included) I don't consider a naturalized citizen to be a "forigner" they are by definition naturalized and a citizen of thei rnew country.

So I have no idea where you racist condemnation comes from.

If a Chinese diplomat moved in next door, well first I would wonder why he was slumming it, but if he did, I would be suspicious of his motives and actions, because all Chinese diplomats are training government intelligence collectors.

If a Chinese corporation decide to buy up huge tracts of industrial, agricultural or residential lands then yes, I would be very suspisious of their intentions.

The reason, the chance that the Chinese corporation is a part state owned and manipulated entity is almots 100% certain - as again, China the country, does not make any geopolitical move by accident.

But then again, what would I know I am just some stupid prick behind a keyboard somewhere.

*edit*

So, I have to ask, you being the hyper-educated legal beagle with all the inside Chino-global contact, do youhave an explanation as to why China has never bothered any of the communist dictatorships on the Asian continent after the Vietnam era conflict, yet has persisted in trying to undermine any local vestiges of peaceful/democratic states?

So they leave North Korea to be a puppet communist state, yet take on Tibet... seems an odd agenda if they only want world peace and to promote a cumbaja world economic utopia....

More likely theyare conciously choosing to leave puppet and potential puppet communist/dictorships in place aroun dthe globe to maintian a surrogate frontline position.

Geopolitics is not traffic court

[Mattk]

Did youget taught any non-revisionist politicla history at your schools? You do kno wthat the US and Russia and China actually fought a surrogate war against each other all through the 70's and 80's in Afiica... oh wait that's right, the west was so obsessed with South Africa they failed to see the their government were scolding South Africa from one side of their mouths while sending cash for gold/platinum/aluminium/diamonds and uranium with the other. And the Russians and Chinese were using local warlords to do their dirty work.

Fair dinkum, didn't I just say 'True nonetheless'? I know about the whole war by proxy business. I'm not trying to dispute your facts. I just didn't think it was helpful to discuss it in the context of what we were on about.

Barely supported, it is not even recognised as a legitimate country. The west and the US give more recognition to Hezbollah than they do Taiwan.

Clear commit to defend Taiwan against China in the case of invasion is pretty darn good recognition, unlike Hezbollah, scheduled as a terrorist organisation in most countries' anti-terrorism legislation. I believe it is a 1979 Act that details the American promise. Same time as the Second Communique.

So, I have to ask, you being the hyper-educated legal beagle with all the inside Chino-global contact, do youhave an explanation as to why China has never bothered any of the communist dictatorships on the Asian continent after the Vietnam era conflict, yet has persisted in trying to undermine any local vestiges of peaceful/democratic states?

That's just incorrect, as China was fighting Vietnam after the Vietnam War. It's dubbed the Fourth Indochina War. Tibet was hardly democratic when China rolled in. North Korea, well, they were the same ethnicity and Communist back in 1949. I guess loyalties die hard, but you definitely have a point there. China supports North Korea as a bulwark against US activities in Taiwan, probably.

I do apologise if you thought I was insinuating you were racist. Your statement can be construed that way, but clearly it was not your intention. Security concerns about the Chinese government are certainly valid, and are in fact made manifest in terms of government hiring practices in Australia. Chinese-born people can't ever get security clearance to work in the Department of Defence, for instance.

I reckon this discussion is coming to a somewhat dignified end. I think we agree on most principles, just not as to extent.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by Mattk I reckon this discussion is coming to a somewhat dignified end. I think we agree on most principles, just not as to extent.

I agree. Well 'argued' guys. I think this thread has run it's course.