GT-R's actual ring times...

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by pagani Better aerodynamics faster gearbox better weightdistrubtion etc. The gtr is like the veyron in some ways. Both are heavy cars but have the handling of lighter sports cars

The 911's are narrow cars, and have a very small aerodynamic footprint. I'm not so sure that a GTR will have better.

3800 lbs = loses a lot of entrance speed into corners, and no way is it as fast as a 911 997 Turbo around a track stock for stock

[gangajas]

Originally Posted by nthfinity and no way is it as fast as a 911 997 Turbo around a track stock for stock

They have developed the car having the 997TT as a reference so the GT-R should be faster. Porsche is going to release the 997TT mkII soon, but Nissan obviously will launch more hardcore versions of the GT-R too....

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by gangajas They have developed the car having the 997TT as a reference so the GT-R should be faster. Porsche is going to release the 997TT mkII soon, but Nissan obviously will launch more hardcore versions of the GT-R too....

I guess Isaac Newton doesn't apply any more, eh? You have to hit the brakes sooner, they will be less fade resistant, and the car will be harder to get to change direction, the CG is higher... many reasons why it just simply isn't possible given the weight.

[gangajas]

Originally Posted by nthfinity I guess Isaac Newton doesn't apply any more, eh? You have to hit the brakes sooner, they will be less fade resistant, and the car will be harder to get to change direction, the CG is higher... many reasons why it just simply isn't possible given the weight.

If you read Porsche forums, you will see that many 997TT drivers are not exactly happy with how the car's PTM works and how that affects to the car behaviour at the limit, on the other hand, according to SA test, the GT-R goes on rails helped by its superior electronic systems. And don't forget that the double-clutch gearbox in the GT-R is much faster than the Triptonic S and faster than any driver changing gears with the 6 speed manual in the Porsche.

[rave426]

Originally Posted by nthfinity uhhh.... are you aware of what you just said? It's ok to lie about a car that say their aim is the proven NS king? Dethrone ?? I think not. Makes for a good story? ahhhh tahts why they used slicks? Anybody who is familiar with watching NS videos at 10/10's on street tires would know the cornering speeds on the GTR are in no way street rubber.... and in no way was the track wet.

First of all they didnt lie. The video shows what time the car ran. They never said they used street tires or slicks. A lie is know where in there.

So you think just because it weighs more it cant hang with a 997 Turbo in the corners. I guess you think the Turbo is the tell-tail of handling. For all we know the GTR might brake better than the Turbo.

Here are some excepts from the upcoming top gear mag that are going around..

"The GT-R hasn't just moved the goalposts, it's obliterated them." "For all-round ability, I have no doubt the Nissan is the best car I have ever driven." "The GTR turns in beautifully, whether neutral or under brakes, and grips forever - slippery surfaces seem to bring out the best in it. Time after time I left Turner (911 Turbo) behind as my four-wheel-drive system and traction control worked better out of wet corners - it wasn't just the fact that I could get on the power earlier. It was about confidence. The Nissan really is something special, and you get the impression that while a master driver could wring every last ounce of performance out of the 911, your mother could do the same in the GT-R..........................Does the Nissan's ability reduce the driving pleasure? Not at all. You can turn all the systems off if you so choose, and it's still supremely well balanced, no doubt a delight for a racing driver on a track." "A bellow from the engine, a rush of revs, a gigantic accelerative force on my neck, bang the GT-R into fourth. A killing gear if ever there was one." "Were in R (mode) now, and weve hit 100mph in about 10 heartbeats. No official performance figure exists for that increment, but expect an 8 second 0-100ph time. Its fast, alrite - 60mph comes up in 3.5 seconds, the standing quarter in 11.7 seconds and it goes onto 197mph." "The GT-R is all aggression on the outside. To my eye, it is a phenomal-looking machine, distinct from everything else. Very japanese and very hard." "Driving these two cars back to back, its not long before you realise that the Nissan makes the Porsche seem old-fashioned. The GT-R is truly extraordinary." "For all round ability, i have no doubt the Nissan is the best car i have ever driven. Its a solid car you can rely on when the going gets tricky."

Here is a first drive from autocar

What is it? Well for starters, it’s not the new Skyline GT-R. Instead it’s referred to merely as the Nissan GT-R. The name Skyline is no longer applicable because, according to the GT-R’s creators, this is an all-new ‘multi-performance supercar’ which just so happens to be faster than a Porsche 911 Turbo – but which also costs two thirds the price of Porsche’s icon; Nissan GB anticipates a price of no more than £55k when sales begin in March 2009. It’s also the most exciting car to come out of Japan since, well, the last GT-R, the R34 Skyline GT-R of the late 1990s. There are almost too many technical highlights to absorb in one hit. As ever the chassis is four-wheel-drive and, as before, the engine is a twin-turbo six-cylinder unit. But this time it’s a V6 of 3.8-litres – the previous GT-Rs have all been straight sixes – and power and torque have risen accordingly. On paper the GT-R develops 473bhp at 6400rpm and 433lb ft at 5200rpm, and it deploys its grunt via a six-speed semi-auto gearbox that has no fewer than 12 clutch plates, and manual paddle shifters on either side of the steering wheel. In reality, and despite the not-inconsiderable 1740kg kerbweight (thank the bombproof 140kg transaxle gearbox for that) what we’re talking about is one of the fastest, most complex road cars money can buy. What’s it like? If the basic headline figures aren’t enough on their own to make your eyebrows twitch towards the heavens (zero to 60mph takes just 3.5sec and the top speed is “at least 194mph”), then maybe the most intriguing claim made by Nissan’s engineers is the fact that “front seat occupants do not need to raise their voices to talk when cruising at a speed of 188mph.’ The point is, yes, the GT-R is a monumentally rapid machine in a straight line, but it’s also a refined, comfortable companion on a long journey. More like the world’s hairiest GT car, rather than an out-and-out road racer. Except there’s rather more to the GT-R than an ability to cover ground as rapidly as possible. Nissan has developed this car to be as usable in the wet by a so-so driver as it is in the dry on the Nurburgring by Lewis Hamilton. The four wheel-drive system is so clever it makes rival systems appear crude by comparison, when they’re not. Called ATTESA E-TS, it uses a massively complex transaxle arrangement at the rear and probably has sufficient computing power to bring down a Space Shuttle at 20 paces. In practice it means you have more traction and stability across a wider range of surfaces than in any other competitor, plus a level of grip that will make even an experienced driver’s eyes water. Nissan claims the GT-R pulls over 1.3g through a dry corner, and nearly 1.0g on a wet one. The steering, too, is deliciously precise, while the huge brakes are similarly mind boggling. And what about the ride, always the one and only dynamic weakpoint with all previous GT-Rs? Difficult to tell whether Nissan has entirely sorted the GT-R’s refinement considering we drove it only briefly on Japanese roads and mainly round a Japanese circuit, but the news is not exactly great. The GT-R is stiff in the extreme over rough roads, even with the dampers set to their most comfortable option. But given that Nissan still has over year to sign the UK GT-R’s suspension off, you can only hope it listens to the critics now. As for the interior, it makes you wonder just how heavily Porsche relies on its reputation to charge as much as it does for a 911 Turbo. The GT-R is as well made if not better than the Porsche inside, has much more space front and rear, more equipment to play with (including a flat screen display that imparts info abut everything from the wind direction to the level of torque at the front axle at any given moment), and a hugely bigger luggage compartment. True, the GT-R is still only a Nissan, and the 911 Turbo is one of Porsche’s finest recent moments. But that’s still no justification for adding nigh-on £30k to the price. Should I buy one? In a word, yes, but if you want one you’ll need to be quick. Nissan GB is only talking about bringing 600-or-so GT-Rs into the country each year and, as of last week, the first 250 had (unofficially) already been sold. On this evidence, it’s not difficult to see why.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/...3.8-V6/229393/

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by rave426 First of all they didnt lie. The video shows what time the car ran. They never said they used street tires or slicks. A lie is know where in there. So you think just because it weighs more it cant hang with a 997 Turbo in the corners. I guess you think the Turbo is the tell-tail of handling. For all we know the GTR might brake better than the Turbo.

Unless the car has more rubber, or less dive, it would be nearly impossible for the GTR to stop better.

A good example to show this is... are you able to lock up your tires? then the weak point is the rubber, not the brake disc/pads/ etc. The problem is that having additional weight is an increased load on the contact patch... which has a maximum deceleration it can perform.

You know how power to weight affects positive acceleration? Weight also affects negative acceleration the same way.

[rave426]

Originally Posted by nthfinity Unless the car has more rubber, or less dive, it would be nearly impossible for the GTR to stop better. A good example to show this is... are you able to lock up your tires? then the weak point is the rubber, not the brake disc/pads/ etc. The problem is that having additional weight is an increased load on the contact patch... which has a maximum deceleration it can perform. You know how power to weight affects positive acceleration? Weight also affects negative acceleration the same way.

I know exactly how power and weight affect acceleration. I also know that DSG trannys affect acceleration.

Your theory is wayy to broad. If you put 8inch MPSC's on a 3000lb civic with stock brakes........it AINT gonna brake faster than 3200lb GT3 with the same tires.

Actually the electronic systems on thise AWD cars do alot for braking. Some of them control the stability of the car, which in turn allows for more consistentcy (less modulation) while braking.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by rave426 I know exactly how power and weight affect acceleration. I also know that DSG trannys affect acceleration. Your theory is wayy to broad. If you put 8inch MPSC's on a 3000lb civic with stock brakes........it AINT gonna brake faster than 3200lb GT3 with the same tires. Actually the electronic systems on thise AWD cars do alot for braking. Some of them control the stability of the car, which in turn allows for more consistentcy (less modulation) while braking.

OH REALLLLY? you know for a fact haha. I bet that MPSC's on a silly civic with GT3 levels of front end dive would stop much quicker.

The electronics will keep the car more stable under breaking, sure.
DSG doesn't affect accelleartion at all. It affects the time it takes to shift, and will increase the amount of time on throttle over the course of a lap. Tires are still the single greatest thing that affects a lap time mate... because it helps in braking, cornering, and exit speed.

[rave426]

Originally Posted by nthfinity The electronics will keep the car more stable under breaking, sure. DSG doesn't affect accelleartion at all. It affects the time it takes to shift, and will increase the amount of time on throttle over the course of a lap. Tires are still the single greatest thing that affects a lap time mate... because it helps in braking, cornering, and exit speed.

Dont act like you didnt know what I mean by saying DSG affects accelerations. Its obvious that it doesnt increase the horsepower in the engine.

What it does do is (like u said) affects the time it takes to shift. This allows you to apply more power to the ground over a specific time range. This integration (calcuation of the area of the horsepower with respect to the time frame) leads to better acceleration times.....so if u want to say it doesnt affect acceleration then go ahead.....but you know what i meant.

Actually using a GT3 was a bad idea. Rather take a Vette at 3200 lbs (front engine). You are not even taking into consideration the effect of weight transition. Under full force braking just because a cars curb wieght is less doesnt mean its going to have less wieght on the front wheels. Depending on the balance of the car the lighter curb weighted car may have more force on the contact patches up front than the heavier car.

And yep, you are right - tires are the single greatest variable when it comes to the performance of an automobile. If your shoes are too small, your feet are gonna hurt, and you arent going to be very cooperative when its time to move

[nthfinity]

ok, so we're on the same page, and you agree with me

To make things "more fair" in the discussion, let us compare the Audi R10 LMP1 car.... which weighs more, and has more power then the Porsche LMP2 car... yet, the Porsche is shorter braking distances, higher cornering speeds, and faster lap times.

how could this be? they are both race cars tuned to the utmost of their chassis, tires, and powerplant etc.

Weight has a lot to do with it

[RC45]

Perhaps Nissan made a deal with Sir Isaac (Newton) to repeal the laws of physics for their model launch.

*shrug*

[rave426]

Originally Posted by nthfinity ok, so we're on the same page, and you agree with me To make things "more fair" in the discussion, let us compare the Audi R10 LMP1 car.... which weighs more, and has more power then the Porsche LMP2 car... yet, the Porsche is shorter braking distances, higher cornering speeds, and faster lap times. how could this be? they are both race cars tuned to the utmost of their chassis, tires, and powerplant etc. Weight has a lot to do with it

I agree- all in all weight is the largest factor, but smaller intities can minimize the gap caused my weight..........if the gap isnt to big - HA

Originally Posted by RC45 Perhaps Nissan made a deal with Sir Isaac (Newton) to repeal the laws of physics for their model launch. *shrug*

I am starting to believe they did

[pagani]

Originally Posted by rave426 I agree- all in all weight is the largest factor, but smaller intities can minimize the gap caused my weight..........if the gap isnt to big - HA I am starting to believe they did

The gtr just bends the rules a bit.

[gangajas]

I've read that in Japan, the ECU of the car works in conjunction with the GPS so that you can only go over 180 km/h outside the pulic road.

Yes there is. On Japanese cars you can only remove it when the GPS knows the car is inside the grounds of a race track. To remove it you have to go into the MFD items list, select number 19 and agree to the warning. You then get one of the readings on the screen saying circuit mode or something like that.

[79TA]

Well, if this car (the GTR) were a girl, it'd go to Cal State Fullerton (my current school) as it is fat, ugly, and overhyped.