motor

Evo8 · 05-10-2008, 10:59 AM

What is for you the ultimate supercar?

Lamborghini Countach. It's the embodiment of the very essence of a supercar.

High performance, check. But performance is only the start (otherwise a Ralliart Evo would count as a supercar too, outperforming many of them). What it's got is massive, unique style, something that can never possibly be found on a normal car.

Really I'd consider an ultimate test of coolness the question - "How cool it would be, if it had a 150hp I4 under the bonnet?"
And in that test, any Lambo would still be sub-zero. Any Ferrari would still be cool. Aston would remain sub-zero. But would Veyron?

This supercars are bad for you because they are really good, well engineered?

Most supercars are either poorly engineered or poorly built, particularly older ones; that doesn't make them any less super. And neither does good engineering alone make a supercar.
BTW in case of Veyron we have an example of overengineering (which is making something heavier and costlier than required for its purpose).

You do with them what you want.If i had one of thouse,i would drive it in race tracks,motorways,i dont like cars to pose.

But you don't have one. That's the issue. And people who do get one are different.

It's not as much the price as other factors. Veyron is too comfy, it takes little effort to drive, it's something celebrities will be buying for showoff driving, to step out of it in Hollywood, and never use more than a quarter of the power. And it doesn't even look too special - the showoff here is about "Look at me, my car is so expensive!"

On the other hand, a Lambo Reventon, which costs about the same, has a whole different image - it looks great and unique, it's uncomfortable, it's got overwhelming character. Might be used for showoff too, but of a different kind, showing the owner has style and insanity, not just money.

leblanc2.0 · 05-10-2008, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Evo8

Lamborghini Countach. It's the embodiment of the very essence of a supercar.

High performance, check. But performance is only the start (otherwise a Ralliart Evo would count as a supercar too, outperforming many of them). What it's got is massive, unique style, something that can never possibly be found on a normal car.

Really I'd consider an ultimate test of coolness the question - "How cool it would be, if it had a 150hp I4 under the bonnet?"
And in that test, any Lambo would still be sub-zero. Any Ferrari would still be cool. Aston would remain sub-zero. But would Veyron?

Most supercars are either poorly engineered or poorly built, particularly older ones; that doesn't make them any less super. And neither does good engineering alone make a supercar.
BTW in case of Veyron we have an example of overengineering (which is making something heavier and costlier than required for its purpose).

But you don't have one. That's the issue. And people who do get one are different.

It's not as much the price as other factors. Veyron is too comfy, it takes little effort to drive, it's something celebrities will be buying for showoff driving, to step out of it in Hollywood, and never use more than a quarter of the power. And it doesn't even look too special - the showoff here is about "Look at me, my car is so expensive!"

On the other hand, a Lambo Reventon, which costs about the same, has a whole different image - it looks great and unique, it's uncomfortable, it's got overwhelming character. Might be used for showoff too, but of a different kind, showing the owner has style and insanity, not just money.

Countach only looks and sound great but its a poor car in perfomance.

" Most supercars are either poorly engineered or poorly built..." What supercars? The old cars are really bad made but today almost all are well made.

Reventon vs Veyron.I will take the veyron anytime. Reventon is just a LP640 with carbon clothes.

Today than never the ultimate Ferrari is always better than the last.This applies to(almost) all supercar manufacturers.

nthfinity · 05-10-2008, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Evo8

Enzo isn't as much of a performance-designed vehicle as F40. Significant shift towards comforts.

A couple things

1.)
the Caparo T1 is all but dead... last I heard, it wasn't even on life support anymore, and all the major financial backers have pulled out.

2.)
The Veyron is a car meant to be daily driven, and there is no other "supercar" that can do that, with exception to the Carrera GT... in the hands of a couple owners. There are far more owners of Veyron's that put winter tread on their Veyron's then not if they live in winter climates.

3.) The Enzo is designed to be comfortable????!?!?!?!

OK, you have not been either the F40, nor the Enzo.... on the road, nor on a track.

I have been in both on the road for hours and hours.

The F40 has more comfortable seats, more head room, less noise in the cabin, and easier to drive at "city" speeds.... and in the city. Yes, your left leg will get a bigger workout in the F40, but other then this... the F40 is far more comfortable.

In the F40, there is a less harsh ride quality, both in pot-holed roads, and on expansion-joint high way.

the Enzo is loud, brash, noisy... may have power assisted steering, but doesn't mean the steering is too light, nor too heavy. The F40's steering is "only" heavy in sub 10 mph driving.

The Enzo is far larger in size then the F40... a majority of the extra weight comes from the hydrolic rams, and crash structure up front and in the rear .... still only a few hundred lbs more then the 20 year old F40.

RC45 · 05-10-2008, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Evo8

You'd have to be a very boring person to say "I've got 360hp more than you!"

BTW: - this phrase is true in this form.

Well guys - you better call be boring then, cause chances are from my perspective, its true

Originally Posted by Evo8

And about Beetle, it's not family tree, it's shape. EB110, that's a proper shape. But Veyron - take a Beetle, stretch it well, and you've got it.

He does have a point here though

Evo8 · 05-10-2008, 05:49 PM

Countach only looks and sound great but its a poor car in perfomance.

And is sub-zero despite that.
A car which isn't cool if you put a 150hp I4 into it - such a car never was really cool in the first place. Lambo would still be cool with anything under the bonnet. Veyron not. Coolness != performance.

What supercars? The old cars are really bad made but today almost all are well made.

Remember the Clarkson's fun with his Ford? And his is not the only one.
Supercars today may not be falling apart, but they're still less reliable than some cheap Toyota; they aren't about reliability.

The Veyron is a car meant to be daily driven, and there is no other "supercar" that can do that, with exception to the Carrera GT... in the hands of a couple owners. There are far more owners of Veyron's that put winter tread on their Veyron's then not if they live in winter climates.

Yes, and that's exactly the problem. It's the car which you put winter tires on and drive daily, without using 1/5th of the power, or any other things differentiating it from regular Beetles. Just like people driving Hummers strictly on the road. Performance designed to go to waste. A car to be driven by people without abilities or desire to use it. A very poser car.

nthfinity · 05-10-2008, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Evo8

Yes, and that's exactly the problem. It's the car which you put winter tires on and drive daily, without using 1/5th of the power, or any other things differentiating it from regular Beetles. Just like people driving Hummers strictly on the road. Performance designed to go to waste. A car to be driven by people without abilities or desire to use it. A very poser car.

So, it is a problem that people who buy silly expensive production cars are able to drive them w/out worrying about being stuck on the side of the road?

I disagree tremendously.

I don't think the Veyron is the best exotic of the modern era.... that is reserved to the Enzo... wretched styling (in a fantastic rock and roll type means) ... vicsious V12 that will kill you (yes, there are several dead owners), and world topping performance when it came out.... with the greatest race tech for the road available at that time.

the Veyron simply can't be compared against supercars that are pure supercars like the Enzo, and even the CGT... against the SLR, perhaps... the SLR is a civic by comparison.

Evo8 · 05-10-2008, 06:26 PM

So, it is a problem that people who buy silly expensive production cars are able to drive them w/out worrying about being stuck on the side of the road?

It's a problem for their coolness. That people drive them exactly like they would a regular beetle, except they look like cocks buying cars they don't need or intend to use fully.

Impracticality, being out of place, being unlike just cars - all that is a part of the supercar cool appeal, and the most important part.

leblanc2.0 · 05-10-2008, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Evo8

Remember the Clarkson's fun with his Ford? And his is not the only one.
Supercars today may not be falling apart, but they're still less reliable than some cheap Toyota; they aren't about reliability.

Lambo would still be cool with anything under the bonnet.

Yeap and than he sold the Ford.Where´s the funny now?!

LOL! Lambo without engine is cool? I can see you like to much lambo´s.

nthfinity · 05-10-2008, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Evo8

It's a problem for their coolness. That people drive them exactly like they would a regular beetle, except they look like cocks buying cars they don't need or intend to use fully.

Impracticality, being out of place, being unlike just cars - all that is a part of the supercar cool appeal, and the most important part.

It is my experience that when you own a car like these... and "daily drive them" you don't drive them like a beetle.... AT ALL.

Evo8 · 05-10-2008, 08:00 PM

LOL! Lambo without engine is cool?

Of course.
Countach is one of the coolest cars in the existence - that is a well proven fact.
Yet it only has as much horsepower as an affordable family saloon (Lancer Evolution) with very basic tuning.

Lambo is just an example, same will go for other not-top supercars. They can't compete with tuned cars in terms of horsepower, hp/ton, pretty much anything but top speed. Yet they're far cooler, since coolness isn't in geeky specifications sheets.

It is my experience that when you own a car like these... and "daily drive them" you don't drive them like a beetle.... AT ALL.

Well, if you own one like these, I won't argue - exceptions exist (an average owner would never know of this site).
So how exactly differently do you use it, on the road? Because they're definitely not going on tracks.

nthfinity · 05-10-2008, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by Evo8

Of course.
Countach is one of the coolest cars in the existence - that is a well proven fact.
Yet it only has as much horsepower as an affordable family saloon (Lancer Evolution) with very basic tuning.

Lambo is just an example, same will go for other not-top supercars. They can't compete with tuned cars in terms of horsepower, hp/ton, pretty much anything but top speed. Yet they're far cooler, since coolness isn't in geeky specifications sheets.

Well, if you own one like these, I won't argue - exceptions exist (an average owner would never know of this site).
So how exactly differently do you use it, on the road? Because they're definitely not going on tracks.

there are only a couple people registered here who know, and are friends with more exotic owners then me... I'm not trying to brag... as it's honestly nothing to brag about.... it's not like I own the car's in question.... but around the motor city... "drive it like you stole it" ...

r2r · 05-10-2008, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by nthfinity

A couple things

...

3.) The Enzo is designed to be comfortable????!?!?!?!

OK, you have not been either the F40, nor the Enzo.... on the road, nor on a track.

I have been in both on the road for hours and hours.

The F40 has more comfortable seats, more head room, less noise in the cabin, and easier to drive at "city" speeds.... and in the city. Yes, your left leg will get a bigger workout in the F40, but other then this... the F40 is far more comfortable.

In the F40, there is a less harsh ride quality, both in pot-holed roads, and on expansion-joint high way.

the Enzo is loud, brash, noisy... may have power assisted steering, but doesn't mean the steering is too light, nor too heavy. The F40's steering is "only" heavy in sub 10 mph driving.

The Enzo is far larger in size then the F40... a majority of the extra weight comes from the hydrolic rams, and crash structure up front and in the rear .... still only a few hundred lbs more then the 20 year old F40.

Great post right here!

enzoferrari · 05-10-2008, 11:48 PM

UGLY UGLY UGLY,you dont need 16 cylinders 4 turbos and 25 radietors to make a supercar,and then VW bettle shape,thats how it looks like,a supercar is a machine that keeps u happy,something unique.NOT A BIG 300mph bettle.

HeilSvenska · 05-11-2008, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by enzoferrari

a supercar is a machine that keeps u happy,something unique.

I'd be very very happy with a 1000hp supercar that does 250mph (in style and comfort), and I happen to like VAG.

And hello? 16 cylinders, 4 turbos, 10 radiators? Unique.

styla21 · 05-11-2008, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by enzoferrari

UGLY UGLY UGLY,you dont need 16 cylinders 4 turbos and 25 radietors to make a supercar,and then VW bettle shape,thats how it looks like,a supercar is a machine that keeps u happy,something unique.NOT A BIG 300mph bettle.

Yeah, you don't NEED all that stuff to make a supercar. But if you DO have those attributes, that doesn't detract or make it any less of a "supercar".

The Bugatti i an engineering wonderland. It produces some of the most outstanding figures from any production car, and creates many firsts. It is most definitely unique.