Q&A Porsche discussion

[J-San]

Originally Posted by lakatu J-San I agree with you the NSX-R is a much better handling car than the NSX with it’s lower weight and track tuned suspension. I wasn’t referring to Gan-san’s comments comparing the CGT to the NSX-R. My comments or question really was about the standard NSX because when the NSX came out in the early 90’s magazine articles seemed to indicate that it was much better handling a car than either the 964 Turbo or the Ferrari 348. Even after the 993 and 355 came out many people still felt the NSX was the better handling car, and well I just don’t see it. The NSX appears way to soft especially up front, has too much roll and the low polar moment of inertia combined with the soft suspension and heavy steering means that once the rear starts to break lose it is difficult to catch the slide. In short I am not really that impressed with the standard NSX but was wondering what others thought of it. To me the NSX was over hyped and never the treat that the automotive press made it out to be for either Porsche or Ferrari. Really interesting about the GT3 CS. I can’t wait to hear more st-anger. So was the balance and turn in as good as the mid engined CGT? Love the look of the RS spoiler on a non white car. I really prefer the RS spoiler to any of the other versions of GT3 spoilers that Porsche has put on the 996 GT3. I keep hoping that Porsche will put that spoiler on the 997 GT3 but based on spy photos it doesn’t look like I will get my wish. Really interested in the car as the RS isn’t available in the U.S. and it would be nice to know that there are other alternatives. What suspension pieces do you get for that kind of money and how is it different than the standard GT3 suspension? Did you prefer the car to the GT3 RS? I would guess so since it handled as well as a CGT? Last question did you drive the CS on the street and if so how did the car perform on street roads? I can’t imagine a 911 set up to handle as well as a CGT would handle the imperfections of a normal road.

Yes, I agree, I'm not impressed with the regular, original 3.0 litre NSX. It was too soft, it rolled a lot and wasn't that fast, but it was better than the Ferrari 348 and Porsche 964 Carrera. However, when the 993 Carrera and the F355 came out, it was completely overshadowed, only the special versions (type S-Zero and type-R) could keep up on the track.

The original NSX was better for the road than for the track. However, it wasn't ever a very fast car, because the reason that led Honda to make the Type-S and Type-R versions was precisely because the NSX was completely overshadowed by the less expensive Skyline GT-R.

[st-anger]

Originally Posted by lakatu Really interesting about the GT3 CS. I can’t wait to hear more st-anger. So was the balance and turn in as good as the mid engined CGT? Love the look of the RS spoiler on a non white car. I really prefer the RS spoiler to any of the other versions of GT3 spoilers that Porsche has put on the 996 GT3. I keep hoping that Porsche will put that spoiler on the 997 GT3 but based on spy photos it doesn’t look like I will get my wish. Really interested in the car as the RS isn’t available in the U.S. and it would be nice to know that there are other alternatives. What suspension pieces do you get for that kind of money and how is it different than the standard GT3 suspension? Did you prefer the car to the GT3 RS? I would guess so since it handled as well as a CGT? Last question did you drive the CS on the street and if so how did the car perform on street roads? I can’t imagine a 911 set up to handle as well as a CGT would handle the imperfections of a normal road.

...this CS is the car from a good friend of mine living in switzerland, it´s a "normal" 2004 GT3 Club Sport but with nearly all the GT3 RS stuff as he wanted to keep the car dark blue, therefore painted the RS wheels and even the power amplifier from the sound system located in the trunk in his midnight blue, in the end this is one of the most beautiful GT3´s i´ve ever seen, the finish is just perfect - well my friend is a die-hard perfectionist so it´s been more or less obvious, i could fill a whole book with his projects
this car is a (in)official project car from Porsche as it´ll get Porsche Motorsport parts and as a leadoff innovation a special PM steering system with only 1.5 turns from left to right, so race car like, but without loosing the comfort on e.g. autobahn or normal street roads. right now it already has a reworked steering and without any question this is one of the most precise steering i´ve ever hat the pleasure with, i tend to say even more responsive and agressive than on the GT - of course with some "downsides" e.g. on the autobahn at 250+ the car requires all the concentration from the driver as it´s kinda nervous with lane grooves but this is all about getting used to he said, of course ppl are "oversteering" the car way too much as they´re used to from their cars even if it´s a Porsche or whatever, but on the track and country roads it´s just perfect from the start and what impressed me most is the outstanding combination steering - suspension - shifting - tires, again i tend to say that i never ever had the pleasure with such a perfect car from a tuner, the suspension is especially set up for his driving style, he spent many many days at the tuner and the guys from the company where he tuned his car looked at his driving style and then adapted the car to the new owner, so every car has a unique suspension setup - of course this will probably double the $$$ but hte result is...(repeating myself) perfect! he´s a semi-pro at GoKart driving as a hobby and u can imagine his GT3 as a GoKart with 400+ hp...

...the whole engine has been reworked, same for the exhaust resulting in ~430hp output, he ordered the shortshift option and a different gearing, he has to shift 3 times to reach 100kmh but u can imagine how this thing goes off from the start, unbelievable, but beeing able to drive 300 has also been a must and it can do exactely 305 - before he was able to do 320 he said...
as he´ll track day the car a lot he now has P Zero Corsas on the car providing an enourmous grip level and are - when warm - also good in the wet...

i drove the car on autobahn at nearly full speed - and of course on country roads around my house here and as siad before, the car is definitely up to GT and GT3 RS handling but just different in a very positive way - it has a distinctive race car feeling and doesn´t feel like a normal sports car any more... 8)

i will have the pleasure again this summer, maybe next month as he´ll get the PM steering then, and he said that the car will be some kind of show car too as it´s the first road car from this tuner as he´s specialised on "race cars only" till then...

right now he´s on business in south america but he promised that he´ll fetch some more infos for me as i´m also VERY VERY much interested into that project...
will keep u up to date...

[lakatu]

Thanks st-anger for providing the additional information. I really love the look of the car. Nice to hear that the car’s suspension is streetable. Would you say it is more like the GT3, the GT3 RS or firmer than the RS like a GT3 RSC?

Please be sure to share more details when they become available. I think the car is extremely fascinating .

[st-anger]

Originally Posted by lakatu Thanks st-anger for providing the additional information. I really love the look of the car. Nice to hear that the car’s suspension is streetable. Would you say it is more like the GT3, the GT3 RS or firmer than the RS like a GT3 RSC? Please be sure to share more details when they become available. I think the car is extremely fascinating .

...the owner is a very sporty driver who doesn´t really care about comfort and stuff - he attends ~ 8 to 10 track days per year, incl. NS, - so it´s definitely "RSC like" - well, haven´t had the pleasure with a RSC yet but of course with a RS and the CS from Daniel is definitely more revised than the std. RS, not much because the RS is already nearly perfect but as said before maybe a bit too much of a compromise with some rest comfort left ( unfortunately IMHO :roll: ) and Daniel´s CS is something for the purist which we both are...
in the end the fact that it is especially adapted to his driving style makes the huge difference...

[dingo]

These are some pics of a 993 I saw last year and it created some debate over what it really was. I saw it again this week so it got me thinking again – is it really a genuine 993 Carrera RS??

The debate last year was that it didn’t have the RS spoiler, instead it had the GT2 item and therefore doubts were raised if it was the real thing. Looking at it now I doubt its actually a GT2 spoiler since it doesn’t have the ‘GT’ on the sides of it
However I now remember reading not too long ago that on the RS the ducktail spoiler was standard but an optional bi-plane Clubsport rear spoiler (like the one in my pics) was available.
So what do you guys say? Any other hints on the pics which can tell me either way what exactly it is?

[J-San]

st-anger, is the Porsche 964 Carrera RS faster than the 993 Carrera RS? From all the Best Motoring videos I've seen featuring these two cars, the 964 RS has always performed best, both in straigh line (0-400m, drag races and so) and on the track. I know the 964 is lighter and the power is almost the same, but shouldn't the 993 be faster?

[J-San]

Originally Posted by dingo These are some pics of a 993 I saw last year and it created some debate over what it really was. I saw it again this week so it got me thinking again – is it really a genuine 993 Carrera RS?? The debate last year was that it didn’t have the RS spoiler, instead it had the GT2 item and therefore doubts were raised if it was the real thing. Looking at it now I doubt its actually a GT2 spoiler since it doesn’t have the ‘GT’ on the sides of it However I now remember reading not too long ago that on the RS the ducktail spoiler was standard but an optional bi-plane Clubsport rear spoiler (like the one in my pics) was available. So what do you guys say? Any other hints on the pics which can tell me either way what exactly it is?

Dingo, i think it's a fake. That looks like a Porsche 993 Carrera RS with Clubsports package and aftermarket rims, but if you look closer you will notice:

1- the seats aren't the Clubsport buckets, and not even the standard RS seats. They are the regular Carrera seats.
2 - the steering wheel is also the same used on the Carrera/Turbo, not the RS CS steering wheel
3- the interior doesn't have a roll cage, so it can't be a RS Clubsport

My bet is: it's a regular Carrera with a RS Clubsport aero kit. Or, less likely, a Carrera RS with Clubsport aero pack, but normal steering wheel and different seats.

[dingo]

Thanks J-San, very keen eyes you have - great info

Originally Posted by J-San st-anger, is the Porsche 964 Carrera RS faster than the 993 Carrera RS? From all the Best Motoring videos I've seen featuring these two cars, the 964 RS has always performed best, both in straigh line (0-400m, drag races and so) and on the track. I know the 964 is lighter and the power is almost the same, but shouldn't the 993 be faster?

well the 993 does have 40hp more than the 964, so that would offset the extra weight (75kg) it has The numbers I saw showed the 964 being 0.1s quicker to 100kmh....so not much difference

[HoboPie]

I'd just like to make a comment on the Gan/CGT issue.

When Best Motoring is actually racing the cars they are fairly flamboyant it often seems the Japanese cars are a little too quick.(Stock r34 was keeping with with a 996 turbo and pulling away from a 360?).

However in either the Japanese or International version of that video the whole point of the video was European cars and they stated quite simply that the Japanese cars still had a ways to go before matching the mid level super sports cars(GT3, CS, CSL, Gallardo).

Gan-san is a very accomplished driver(was offered an F1 test). I can't be sure of his overall skill at his current age, but you don't get to the level he did without knowing how to handle a car sufficiently well to give it a review. He still seems to be the best driver of the current BM team and they all are quite accomplished themselves. His only real rival was Tsuchiya who is definitely a skilled driver(Mclaren F1 and NSX at Lemans).

Anyway I'm not sure if it was a crappy test car(his hadn't arrived at the time of the video) or what, but I don't think his comments came from patriotism or lack of skill. Considering he bought the car I doubt very much he would make stuff up.

Hopefully we will see some CGT in BM in the near future because his should have arrived in late 2004.

[st-anger]

...hi m8

...well, first, the spoiler is definitely an RS spoiler and NO GT2 one, as u said the "GT" emblem is missing but the GT wing is definitely flater, longer and more integrated into the engine lid...
J-san already mentioned some details that it´s NO 993RS - may i add some more:

on a real RS u have no sunroof, rear window wiper, Turbo side skirts, Turbo S indicator/fog light design, no washing spray for the head lights, no rear window spoiler and all the other things i forgot to mention...

[dingo]

thanks mate, its a shame as a 993 RS would have been a nice thing to see I will have to go on the hunt for the real thing now
Thanks again to st-anger and J-San for clearing that up for me

[J-San]

Originally Posted by HoboPie I'd just like to make a comment on the Gan/CGT issue. When Best Motoring is actually racing the cars they are fairly flamboyant it often seems the Japanese cars are a little too quick.(Stock r34 was keeping with with a 996 turbo and pulling away from a 360?). However in either the Japanese or International version of that video the whole point of the video was European cars and they stated quite simply that the Japanese cars still had a ways to go before matching the mid level super sports cars(GT3, CS, CSL, Gallardo). Gan-san is a very accomplished driver(was offered an F1 test). I can't be sure of his overall skill at his current age, but you don't get to the level he did without knowing how to handle a car sufficiently well to give it a review. He still seems to be the best driver of the current BM team and they all are quite accomplished themselves. His only real rival was Tsuchiya who is definitely a skilled driver(Mclaren F1 and NSX at Lemans). Anyway I'm not sure if it was a crappy test car(his hadn't arrived at the time of the video) or what, but I don't think his comments came from patriotism or lack of skill. Considering he bought the car I doubt very much he would make stuff up. Hopefully we will see some CGT in BM in the near future because his should have arrived in late 2004.

I fully agree with you, with two minor comments: that R34 Skyline that was keeping up with the Porsche because it had semi-slick tires. Other is that Nakaya is at least as skillfull as both Gan-San and Tsuchiya, and we can't forget Gan-San's son, Takuya Kurosawa (former F3000 champion and still holds the record of the Fuji circuit) and Naoki Hattori (Formula Nippon Champion), both of them very accomplished and skilled drivers.

[lakatu]

It is great to see you back posting regularly in Porsche Central J-San

[Wutputt]

I've a little question: does anyone know how many 959 Sport (sometimes also called the 959 S) were built? I've heard something around 30. But I want to know the exact amount

[J-San]

Thanks, lakatu!

Wutputt, Porsche built 6 units of the 959 Sport.