motor

1zippo1 · 08-12-2003, 11:28 AM

I agree with my fellow Belgians (Mendocino & draak666).

Something more I would like to add: I don't really like American car's in general and that's mostly because of the styling. There certainly are nice American car's like the Mustang and others but not so many as in europe and regular cars are also less attractive then most European cars. That's a matter of taste so it depends up to you.

The situation with the engines is allready explained by Mendocino. Taxes & fuel are much more expsensive in europe so engines are smaller. In general European engines are more sofisticated & complex. Look at one of the prime examples, the Corvette, has a magnificent engine with loads of torque but it isn't more powerfull then an M3 and about as fast. The M3 on the other hand has a 3.2 engine. I've read articles about both and both were praised by the same Belgian magazine but they also said you allmost have to be crazy or very richt to pay the gas & taxes for the corvette.

AlienDB7 · 08-12-2003, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by 666fast

AlienDB7, what kind fo car do you have? I know for awhile, some Chrysler and Didge cars had rotors that were too thin and too small. they would work, but the rotors would be warped in no time flat.
A friend used to work a a car parts place and he said it's the most common thing that Intrepid and Avenger owners would buy.
A lot of people started ordering frozen rotors to get rid of the problem.

The one in my sig.. j/k.. drive an '00 alero here. Actually one of the few good looking american car IMO. The rotors are not small (11" for front and back), just that they used a bad pad/rotor combination for my year. One of the front pads even cracked after 20k km! Convined the dealer to replace them with the '03 spec pads/rotors, they seem to be fine now. I hear lots of people just replace them with higher quality slotted ones. Not sure if it's completely gm's fault, the car runs on 4th (OD) gear at 1200rpm most of the time and there's virtually no engine braking. Not good when you're driving in the city having to stop every 15sec!

Sinister Angel · 08-12-2003, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by draak666

I forgot about the soft suspension of American cars. That sucks big time. Every car enthousiast agrees on that, right?

Umm, let's look at even stock vettes. You can corner like a crazy bitch. And this is gonna sound weird, but I was in a kids fiero. That thing was like a damned gokart on the corners.

AlienDB7 · 08-12-2003, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by sportVeloce

Audi fuel economy stats for the A4 1.4T
Manual, FrontTrak: 22/31 (city/hwy)
Manual, quattro: 21/29
multitronic: 23/29
Tiptronic: 20/28

16... sounds like he has a Yank-Tank motor

source Audi USA: http://www.audiusa.com/features_spec...ode-1_,00.html

16L/100km, not MPG! So, we just crashed another mars explorer

According to http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/vehicles/guid...ext=N&mfg=AUDI , the A4 avant 1.8T gets 11.6L/100km city and 7.6L/100km highway.

So, 16L/100km is still very possible with lead foot + uphill driving during winter time.

For my car (alero 3.4L), it's 11.0L/100km city, 6.7L/100km highway.
Source: http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/vehicles/guid...ext=N&mfg=OLDS

Originally Posted by draak666

I forgot about the soft suspension of American cars. That sucks big time. Every car enthousiast agrees on that, right?

Depends on which car you're talking about. Some "family" sedans like the malibu do come with soft suspension but the same has to be said for their americanized jap counterparts. Maybe it's the 24/15mm anti-roll bar (stock) and low sitting position, I don't feel much body roll.

One thing I don't like about jap cars, their spongy brakes!! It seems like they designed the cars for the ladies who use the brakes like an on/off switch.

Johns · 08-12-2003, 12:30 PM

american cars suck fuckin balls. and in races most of the time its not the car your drivin its the driver 8) Japanese cars also suck, fuckin plastic pieces of shit

SFDMALEX · 08-12-2003, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Johns

american cars suck fuckin balls. and in races most of the time its not the car your drivin its the driver 8) Japanese cars also suck, fuckin plastic pieces of shit

ROFLAMO

Sinister Angel · 08-12-2003, 12:51 PM

As for the M3, that is a damned nice piece of machinery. And as you know I seem to have a liking for vettes. Let's compare a regular (not Z06) vette coupe with an M3 coupe in price, engine performance, and fuel efficiency.

Price
M3: Around $47,000 USD
Corvette: Around 42,000 USD

Fuel Efficiency (gotten from Edmunds)
M3: 24 MPG
Corvette: 28 (I'll probably say around 26 as I asked a guy who had a Z06)

Engine performance:
M3: Torqe 262 ft-lbs
Horsepower: 333 hp
Corvette: Torque: 360 ft-lbs.
Horsepower: 350 hp

I'm guessing that BMWs are a bit cheaper in europe though. Does anyone have any links to direct track comparisons between the Corvette and M3?

AlienDB7 · 08-12-2003, 12:52 PM

Found something interesting about fuel economy and emission: http://www.polk.com/news/releases/2003_0122b.asp

"SOUTHFIELD, Mich. (January 22, 2003) - For the third consecutive year, Toyota Motor Co. has topped the Automotive Market Environmental Superiority (AMES) Awards with 11 wins for 2003. General Motors and Ford Motor Co. followed closely with 10 awards each. Honda had the highest percentage of its models recognized by AMES Awards with a 54 percent success rating while Volkswagen came in second with 50 percent of its offerings winning awards."

If you look at the list, jap cars are only dominating the subcompact segment. They are not much more economical than americans or europeans when it comes to bigger cars/engines. IMO, japs are good at making small economical engines and americans are good at making big engines fuel efficient. Europeans, they're good at making good sounding fun engines that are efficient. Even the pagani zonda has respectable gas mileage compared to most big trucks over here.

Sinister Angel · 08-12-2003, 12:55 PM

I've heard decent things from people with trucks with the new Vortec motors in them.

stracing · 08-12-2003, 01:06 PM

that is so true
but its getting better, the silvia's look pretty good

fedezyl · 08-12-2003, 02:28 PM

Well well well! if it's me the one who started the flame war it seems! LOL

Well, in reply to some coment's in this topic, racing, doesn't count, as stated in several posts by fellow Jabba's world members, it all depends on how much money they throw at it..
As far as american cars, the reason's I don't like them, poor efficiency, poor build quality, poor handling, and dull engines..
let's take a 50.000 dollars Cadillac DeVille not the current one but the one before, I happen to have a very good one own both a DeVille and a CTS (more to it in a little bit), I'm amazed at why he bought this car instead of a mercedes benz E class for example, but well, I was surprised to find that the electric windows buttons were taken from a cheap Chevrolet pick up, the ergonomics were ridiculous, all the buttons to control lights and thinks you would regulary use are right behin the huge steering wheel...not to mention the rattle from all the fake wood and buttons...
Now, the only thing I like about that car is that it is indeed very comfortable inside! it's huge! but there's to many tradeoffs for that cabin space..As far as handling goes, well as Clarkson proved it in his video it does handle like a boat, corners like one, and you want to know the scariest part? well, imagine doing 75mph on the highway, go over a moderate bump and start porpoising up and down and feeling that the car acts like jellow, so poor damping, but still very comfortable on the roads though... I also like the engine, definetely matched the purpose of the car, but I still think that Mercedes, Jaguar and BMW have done much better with better engines, build quality, less weight and more comfort with carefully designed seats instead of a big couch inside, and think about this, all of those car's are 50.000 dollars cars...

Ok
Now on to the CTS that I also test drove...
I must say I was IMPRESSED! I actually liked this car!! It handled nice, had a 6 speed gearbox, a nicely designed dashboard and very comfortable seats! I could do with lower profile tires, but that's just a matter of taste, as for the engine, it's a V-6, over 3 liters I think, but still impressed, not the best V-6 around but still a very good engine, don't about reliability but it felt nice to be thrashed around, and of course, no more FWD but RWD...that's another thing of the big Caddy, FWD in a 50.000 dollars car...oh well..

My point being here, american car's are bad, compared to European and Japanese car's in their segments, being luxury car's, economy car's, hot hatches and even sport's car's, they're always behind because they seem to do a half ass job, as proved by the Cadillacs, when they did want to do a good job as with the CTS the result is quite impressive, not the leader of the segment but at least not something you see and ask yourself "that's a 50.000 dollar car??"...and in history, they've done great car's, I love the Mustang GT500, or the GT40, but that's where my list stops, because there's nothing else to see right now...don't like the corvette (matter of taste of course) or it's engine (comparing to same car's in it's segment worldwide), don't like the mustang (although it's cheap straight line performance, but who here want's that anyways) definetely don't like pontiacs, specially that abobination called the Aztec (I think we all agree here)...and also Camaro's and Firebird's...
And the reason's for me not liking these car's are all the same, it's an old car with a new body, there's been absolutely no advance in technology in the U.S. car makers until now when the technology gap is so huge that it is ridiculous...
As far as the V-8 engines, I just purely don't like inefficiency, it's a waste of energy, feeling that something can be done much better why settle with the bare minimum? Just think about the reputation they have...they don't have it because of no reason...and yes yes, I know american's love V-8's and I respect them for that, as a fellow here said it's a matter of cultural differences, I grew up with small european car's, but still if I objectively compare american car's with european or japanese car's in their on segment's they get smoked all the time in anything you compare, from performance to build quality.....
This is not a flame war, and i'm sorry the way I put my post on the other topic, I was a bit upset about the news, so I apologize if I offended anyone, but what I posted here is my trying to be as objective as I can..

666fast · 08-12-2003, 03:07 PM

fedezyl is partly right on American cars and thier finish. Quite a few cars shouls have better components for thier price. Cadillac are notorious for it. Of course a won't be a great handling car, it wasn't built for it. Grandma and Grandpa are the primary Cadillac buyers here. To me, I think they are overpriced.
Most american cars don't handle well because it's not what the majority of car buyers want. It is changing though. For most people here, they want a comfortable ride, they don't want it to pogo stick around corners. The new Pontiac Grand Prix with the Comp G package handles better than it's European and Japanese competition. now if they would give it a proper manual gear box. Even the new Lincoln LS with the V8 has great handling.
Like I said before, fuel economy is not as important here as it is in the rest of the world. But it is a growing concern. A few cities have started using a $4 million dollar city bus that runs on hydrogen. A few makers are touting the mpg as a selling point. Unless we have another gas crisis like in the 70's, it'll never be a main concern. People here complain when gas gets anywhere near $2 a gallon.

The Corvette is perfectly able on a race track. Especially a Z06. Put both a Vette and an M3 on a track and they will be pretty equal. Put a Z06 on a track and it'll beat the M3, it's been done. I think it was Road and Track that did the comparison.
I don't agree with the statement that Americans only like to go in a staright line or in Circles. I surely don't. I like drag racing, something about a 4000bhp monster hitting 300mph in 3 seconds! As for Nascar, I don't like it. It bores me to death. But that doesn't change the fact that Nascar is the number one motorsport here. I'm sure NHRA drag racing isn't far behind it. Both sports are huge and their fans are hooligans, people go nuts over it.

Sinister Angel · 08-12-2003, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by fedezyl

Ok
Now on to the CTS that I also test drove...
I must say I was IMPRESSED! I actually liked this car!! It handled nice, had a 6 speed gearbox, a nicely designed dashboard and very comfortable seats! I could do with lower profile tires, but that's just a matter of taste, as for the engine, it's a V-6, over 3 liters I think, but still impressed, not the best V-6 around but still a very good engine, don't about reliability but it felt nice to be thrashed around, and of course, no more FWD but RWD...that's another thing of the big Caddy, FWD in a 50.000 dollars car...oh well..

Wait untill they come out with the CTS-V....
400 HP in a CTS.

fedezyl · 08-12-2003, 03:29 PM

Do you know what engine is it going to have??

The other car that I saw on the street the other day was the Chrysler Crossfire, pretty cool, to bad you can see to many Mercedes SL traits in it's design, I liked the tail though...

Sinister Angel · 08-12-2003, 03:39 PM

It's going to have an LS6 in it.
Just imagine the tunability it will have though. Send it off to lingenfelter. You wouldn't know if the CTS next to you was a stock 400 or a Ferrari killing 700 HP tuner Caddy.