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Old 08-19-2006, 05:12 PM   #16
SFDMALEX
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Originally Posted by phatbimmer
WTF another mac vs. pc thread :violin:

Why don't we use the energy to hate on finalgay instead, macs is oldsk00l

Whose waisting energy? me not.....I just find this amussing....you know waiting for mac boys to come up with an excuse...only to get a valid point out of them by about page 4 of the thread
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Old 08-19-2006, 06:10 PM   #17
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Still SFDMALEX you are not proving anything and why would MAC users (ie myself) get in a hissy over the government not using the product i am using?......... if anything i would be happy they don't "understand" my computer tech. i use
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Old 08-19-2006, 09:33 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by SFDMALEX
I have to say Im am fucking shocked that the Mac excuse is "price"


This is funny.....since when did the military care about money?

If MAC offered something better THEY WOULD SWITCH TO MAC.

There are not going to bother saving 100 or 200 or even 500 or even 2000 dollars on a million + plus APC if the other system actually offered anything better.

This is trully pathetic if you think that they get PCs because its cheaper

Your a bunch of pooftas afterall then to even think this.


Oh and a funny response from our admin
"yeh i guess all those billions on stealth planes meant they couldnt afford a few macs :roll: "


Its also funny because my dad has first hand expriance with the US military, place he works at http://www.uniquesys.com/ is selling communication devices to the US Air Force and they are willing to pay thousands of dollars extra for added stability etc.


And Im sure 10 or 100 million is going to put a big dent in the 450 BILLION budget of the states.

Im sure they are willing to save 100million or fuck 5 billion dollars....and with those saving get unstable systems that crash over heat and put the lives of the troops and multi billion dollar developments under risk.

The shittiest argument I have herd yet...I mean really..... :roll:

The bottom line is that military was is and always will be the eptiome of technology. What modern military systems are capable of is simply mind bogling. Everything comes from military first.


And as previously said. Im sure the US government cared to save 500$ on a 350$ million F-22 :roll:

The US Navy spent over 100million to change the wiring on all F14s, because even though the old wires where OK, they found some things problematic.

The military use potentiometers with silver conductors, and relays that cost about 10x more then your conventional relay in your little stereo...

I mean the argument is trully pathetic.
Who said I'm making an excuse? Look at my sig, I'm running windows.

All I'm saying is that there are several factors here. Personally, I think price is an issue, especially when you can find a cheaper alternative that is easier to make work with your mobile hardware, and basically is more appropriate to the tasks at hand.

So how can you justify spending millions of dollars on something that will just force you to use up more time because there isn't a mobile counterpart?

It all depends on what you want the hardware for.

Ad agencies, video editing and special effects studios use Mac's. The pixar guys use Macs too IIRC. It's a machine you use if you need to edit, process, and render graphics. Big whoop.

The military needs something that is easily configured right? Isn't that what Mac's aren't? Machine's that are easily configured?

Also, with regards to price again: just because you have a 450B budget means that you can just piss away 10M. The US gov't spends an insane amount on stealth bombers because there isn't a better alternative for what they are intended for. Need something that can't be detected, can't be hit my normal GtoA missiles, and yet still cause an insane amount of hurt on the opposition? Then look no further.

Likewise, when you have an always changing network of systems, you can't rely on one company to provide you with the hardware you need only when they feel like it. You need to be able to find what you need, asap, through any means necessary. And with the incredible amount of PC manufacturers around the world, both desktop and mobile, it only makes sense to go that way.

Besides, for all you know, they're all probably running Linux. Which is a free customizable version of the Mac's UNIX-based OS. It's fully customizable, it's free, and it's a shitload faster than windows.
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Old 08-20-2006, 01:12 PM   #19
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MS has a monopoly. Windows is everywhere.

Windows however, is going into a downward spiral.. The operating system blows, and a much better one (unix based, like OS X) should be it's replacement.

those are my 2 cents..
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Old 08-20-2006, 01:54 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex
MS has a monopoly. Windows is everywhere.

Windows however, is going into a downward spiral.. The operating system blows, and a much better one (unix based, like OS X) should be it's replacement.

those are my 2 cents..
So are you saying a Ukrainian APC/Tank/x/x/x/x designer builder like Kharkiv Morozov Machine Building Design Bureau is being somehow forced to use windows?

And this is not debate about operating systems, this is about platforms. Everyone knows that a lot of military software is unix based, but what they run on is PC.

Windows just happens to be one of the hundreds of operating systems for PC.
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Old 08-20-2006, 02:01 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Sir_GT

Who said I'm making an excuse? Look at my sig, I'm running windows.

All I'm saying is that there are several factors here. Personally, I think price is an issue, especially when you can find a cheaper alternative that is easier to make work with your mobile hardware, and basically is more appropriate to the tasks at hand.

So how can you justify spending millions of dollars on something that will just force you to use up more time because there isn't a mobile counterpart?

It all depends on what you want the hardware for.

Ad agencies, video editing and special effects studios use Mac's. The pixar guys use Macs too IIRC. It's a machine you use if you need to edit, process, and render graphics. Big whoop.

The military needs something that is easily configured right? Isn't that what Mac's aren't? Machine's that are easily configured?

Also, with regards to price again: just because you have a 450B budget means that you can just piss away 10M. The US gov't spends an insane amount on stealth bombers because there isn't a better alternative for what they are intended for. Need something that can't be detected, can't be hit my normal GtoA missiles, and yet still cause an insane amount of hurt on the opposition? Then look no further.

Likewise, when you have an always changing network of systems, you can't rely on one company to provide you with the hardware you need only when they feel like it. You need to be able to find what you need, asap, through any means necessary. And with the incredible amount of PC manufacturers around the world, both desktop and mobile, it only makes sense to go that way.

Besides, for all you know, they're all probably running Linux. Which is a free customizable version of the Mac's UNIX-based OS. It's fully customizable, it's free, and it's a shitload faster than windows.


And I dont think your quite grasping the concept.

Pissing away money would be if both platforms offered the exact same thing but one was significantly more expensive. That would be pissing away money.


However if the MAC platform offered anything even remotly more secure, more stable, more expandable the military would go with that.

You see the light now mate?

If MACs offered anything over PCs, a smaller failure rate, better stability, faster proccessing the military would get the better product even if it costs them 500$ more a unit.

We are talking about professional army's too. Im not talking about some conscript number force of north korea.


As I said before. The soviets used potentiometers that used silver for the coductor strips where are a ton of other metals could be used to perform the same job, maybe 0.01% worse.
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Old 08-20-2006, 02:14 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by SFDMALEX
Originally Posted by Sir_GT

Who said I'm making an excuse? Look at my sig, I'm running windows.

All I'm saying is that there are several factors here. Personally, I think price is an issue, especially when you can find a cheaper alternative that is easier to make work with your mobile hardware, and basically is more appropriate to the tasks at hand.

So how can you justify spending millions of dollars on something that will just force you to use up more time because there isn't a mobile counterpart?

It all depends on what you want the hardware for.

Ad agencies, video editing and special effects studios use Mac's. The pixar guys use Macs too IIRC. It's a machine you use if you need to edit, process, and render graphics. Big whoop.

The military needs something that is easily configured right? Isn't that what Mac's aren't? Machine's that are easily configured?

Also, with regards to price again: just because you have a 450B budget means that you can just piss away 10M. The US gov't spends an insane amount on stealth bombers because there isn't a better alternative for what they are intended for. Need something that can't be detected, can't be hit my normal GtoA missiles, and yet still cause an insane amount of hurt on the opposition? Then look no further.

Likewise, when you have an always changing network of systems, you can't rely on one company to provide you with the hardware you need only when they feel like it. You need to be able to find what you need, asap, through any means necessary. And with the incredible amount of PC manufacturers around the world, both desktop and mobile, it only makes sense to go that way.

Besides, for all you know, they're all probably running Linux. Which is a free customizable version of the Mac's UNIX-based OS. It's fully customizable, it's free, and it's a shitload faster than windows.


And I dont think your quite grasping the concept.

Pissing away money would be if both platforms offered the exact same thing but one was significantly more expensive. That would be pissing away money.


However if the MAC platform offered anything even remotly more secure, more stable, more expandable the military would go with that.

You see the light now mate?

If MACs offered anything over PCs, a smaller failure rate, better stability, faster proccessing the military would get the better product even if it costs them 500$ more a unit.

We are talking about professional army's too. Im not talking about some conscript number force of north korea.


As I said before. The soviets used potentiometers that used silver for the coductor strips where are a ton of other metals could be used to perform the same job, maybe 0.01% worse.
What would the US military need garageband and iPhoto for?

My argument is that the military uses what's appropriate, you're argument is that they use the "best". But isn't the "best" equipment whatever is the most appropriate?

Think of it this way: the "best" land machine in world would be an F1 car, but that isn't appropriate for military use, but with regards to speed and manueverability, F1 cars simply use the best technology out there.

Do you think that the military would spend $3B on F1 cars "just because"? Of course not. They would never be able to justify that. They would spend $3B on tanks. They're nowhere near as fast as an F1 car, nor are they as agile, but they sure as hell get the job done.

Again, why would the military purchase a 3Ghz Quad-core, 16GB Ram, 2TB MacPro? Just because they can? What for? To render Ice Age 3: Acorns in Iraq?

Bollocks.

They'll purchase the hardware that is most appropriate to what they need. That, for the military, is the "best" hardware.
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Old 08-20-2006, 02:21 PM   #23
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^^^ well said.
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Old 08-20-2006, 03:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Sir_GT
What would the US military need garageband and iPhoto for?

My argument is that the military uses what's appropriate, you're argument is that they use the "best". But isn't the "best" equipment whatever is the most appropriate?

Think of it this way: the "best" land machine in world would be an F1 car, but that isn't appropriate for military use, but with regards to speed and manueverability, F1 cars simply use the best technology out there.

Do you think that the military would spend $3B on F1 cars "just because"? Of course not. They would never be able to justify that. They would spend $3B on tanks. They're nowhere near as fast as an F1 car, nor are they as agile, but they sure as hell get the job done.

Again, why would the military purchase a 3Ghz Quad-core, 16GB Ram, 2TB MacPro? Just because they can? What for? To render Ice Age 3: Acorns in Iraq?

Bollocks.

They'll purchase the hardware that is most appropriate to what they need. That, for the military, is the "best" hardware.
The land example is too broad of a scope. We got everything from tractors to jet powered dried salt lake world speed record machines.


Here we are talking about computers, personal computers whose task is to do the same thing. I mean after all PC and MAC are in direct competition, or in reality no competition because mac is oh how many per cent of the world computer netowork? I think you know that number. We are not talking about basic function calculators and NASA super computers.

So once we get back on track and start talking about compters and not the polar opposites of F1 machines and Tanks we get back to the question of why is the military using PC platforms instead of MAC platfroms if MACs are soooo much better (we all know they arent, but thats what the mac boys say) then PCs, more stable, faster and all that


Your attempt and trying to make it look like MACs and PCs do different things hence the military chooses the PCs for their purposes is weak. Because, essentialy MACs and PCs do the same thigns. PCs do about a 1000x more due to the simple fact of software availibility but forget all that...as the mac boys say apples do everything and then some over my not so orange PC.
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Old 08-20-2006, 06:48 PM   #25
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^^^ you aren't making any points, you are just trying to get us MAC users in a hissy fit. but its not working. we have given a lot of reasons and the main one, money, you don't want to accept. but look at the history, when MACs went "downhill", PCs boomed and the market force went to the software of PCs and the government ran with what was popular. besides during that time MACs were viewed as hard to use.

thus once the government set up its contracts/training/budget they just had no need to change or want.
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Old 08-20-2006, 08:01 PM   #26
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the military isn't doing graphic or editing videos on their PC's,
they are just using it for numbers.
that is why. plain and simple. apple has never claimed to be better @ a PC on simple tasks like excel and 2+2. they are aimed for people who want to do audio/graphics/video editing and other visual/audio stuff

DONE AND DONE.....

now get bill gates dick out of your ass and stop with the anit-apple spam.

and don't bring up the whole 'but the adobe suite is on PC TOO now' cause if you have ever used it on BOTH you will be shocked @ the diff. and by USED i mean knowning all the shortcuts, drop down menus and sliders.
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Old 08-21-2006, 01:00 AM   #27
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WTF is you on about? 2+2 eh....man your more fucking lost then a redneck in a pussy trying to find the g spot.

Bill Gates dick? I'm sorry aint Apple paying him for ipods? No one takes it more up the ass then apple.

And I would like you to point where ever I supported gates or Microshaft.




----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's just sad seeing all the mac boys get so sensative because there is FUCKING NOTHING that apple can offer over the competition. Even looks since I can get that same bloody case on a 400$ PC. You all just dish out your cash and take it up the ass like a hair dresser.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Your mac is a fasion accesory. Like it or not, from the military to engineering no one uses a fucking mac. And eventualy everyone will stop using them in the audio and video business. But its ok, I'm sure each dickhead in hollywood has one, and you just like the idea.

Brutal honesty hurts. But keep taking it up the ass, just use protection.

DONE AND DONE

Case closed.
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Old 08-21-2006, 01:07 AM   #28
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so why don't you start some microsoft bashin threads?
cause it is to easy? it is like pickin on a retard?
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Old 08-21-2006, 01:10 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Toronto
so why don't you start some microsoft bashin threads?
cause it is to easy? it is like pickin on a retard?

Way ahead of you.
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Old 08-21-2006, 01:13 AM   #30
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the military isn't doing graphic or editing videos on their PC's,
they are just using it for numbers.
that is why. plain and simple. apple has never claimed to be better @ a PC on simple tasks like excel and 2+2. they are aimed for people who want to do audio/graphics/video editing and other visual/audio stuff
ok..... who said excel is the best number crunching software for pc? PSI plot is amazing, and used by the government; and what about circular track-plots? oh... there is only one prog that does that...

and so the reason the governness doesn't take apples is because apple sucks at doing databases, and analyzing data? i guess they must have shitty code for the processor to not even run raw data well.

so the reason teh Government doesn't use apple mac's is because the government doesn't need graphic heavy needs?

how stupid are you?

seriously

how s t u p i d. (hats on/hats off type debate)

what do you think NORAD/NSA/CIA/FBI etc. etc. etc. all use when they are looking at satalite imagry (read, not nessisarily phots; but color ehanced through uber satalite technology; AND USER END Graphical PC's

Satalite imagry, satalite data converted to graphical imagry, Radar, radio, photonics and super secret shit we dont even know about that is accurate to 1" or perhaps better.

so yeah, the government doesn't do massive labor intensive graphical use at all :roll:
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