China making fake Ferraris

[dutchmasterflex]

hahaha.. will the chinese ever stop counterfeiting?

[RC45]

Originally Posted by insane I don't think this is the first time they've counterfitted a car. A while back I remember hearing of a Chinese luxury saloon, that looked like a Merc from the front and like a BMW from the back.

No - it turned out that was just a new Audi....

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Shinigami The chinese economy is picking up, and sooner or later, those people WILL be able to pay for the "real deal".

And because they were weened on the fake stuff they will know what the real stuff is and aspire to it even more.

Fake items actually improve brand image and increase sales for brand name companies.

Originally Posted by Shinigami The problem with the fakes, is that whilst they are often sold in china, many of them also find their way into Europe and the states. A recent article on counterfeited NEC items shows that a very large portion of the merchandise has been moving out of the country.

Well - then don't buy your NEC items from street vendors.. problem solved

If large retailers buy fake items and claim they are real, then the retailer is commiting the crime, not the counterfeiter.

Originally Posted by Shinigami Personally, I don't like the idea of someone copying something you have made and perfected...

Why not?

All these brands aim at a different demographic and would never get the sale anyway - they should be glad that the fake brands spread product awareness and create a way for people to begin to sample the items...

The people who can afford not to buy the real stuff now, will later buy the real stuff as and when they can afford it, so the brand companies actually get increased market share without spending more advertising money.

Seems like a win win scenario to me.

Much ado abut nothing.

Counterfeit music and software is an actual duplicate of the real deal - counterfeit cloths are not. Big difference... duplicating electronic images is in a different league totally. Once youhave the "copied" appliaciotn you never need buy the real thing because the copy is the real thing - but the "fake" LeCoste shirt is a fake, and when you can afford to pose in a real LeCoste, you will..

I doubt any brand name consumer company could prove actual lost revenues from cunterfeiting - they maysay they have lost future sales, but we all know it's bull - because they would never drop their prices low enough to win the counterfeit sale anyway.

[Shinigami]

It's not always a win win situation. Some consumer goods are exactly that. You consume them, they go to waste, and you move on. That's money which could have been spent on something else.

I've worked for a few video game companies, and I had first had experience of people pirating games I worked on (Serious Sam, Deus Ex and Unreal Tournament). Rarely did these people end up buying the real deal. They did however enjoy playing the games for a long, long time.

I'm not of the school of thought where "piracy" increases awareness of a brand or product. It happens in some circles and for some products, but it's an exception rather then a rule.

In regards to the NEC products, it appears that the products went on sale in major retail outlets due to very specific cirumstances where the Chinese pirates emulated the entire company. Once you go this far, it's not all that difficult get a contract signed by a retailer (especially smaller ones who may not be able to go through the entire paperwork needed to verify the authenticity of a product) and then ship your products to the store.

The problem is that humans inherently get used to a particular taste, and in this case, it is a case of price. If something was affordable because it wasn't the real deal, it will most likely mean that the person will continue to purchase the pirated products because they get more for their money. So yes, it's arguable that the original company will still not be making any extra cash since the product would never have sold in the first place. But practice breeds behaviour, and it begins with one, and multiplies to millions.

I don't know what it is that you do or make for a living, but I work in the pharmaceutical business now, and if other companies make pirated generics, it cuts into our profits. Money which we could use to not only improve our existing products, but develop new and safer ones. Remember, it's not just about making money and profits. Companies use the revenues to "improve" themselves. This is what you seem to be lacking in your argument (though I have no doubt you'll have something to say about that... as would I. After all, how much can a La Coste shirt be "improved", hehe).

Just my two cents.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by Shinigami It's not always a win win situation. Some consumer goods are exactly that. You consume them, they go to waste, and you move on. That's money which could have been spent on something else. I've worked for a few video game companies, and I had first had experience of people pirating games I worked on (Serious Sam, Deus Ex and Unreal Tournament). Rarely did these people end up buying the real deal. They did however enjoy playing the games for a long, long time.

then look at what the people over at Valve did (Half life) after the huge Counter Strike boom, Valve ended up detecting real s/n's vs. false ones... so if you wanted to continue playing CS, you had to have a legit s/n... then people went out and bought gobs of half life just to play thier already year+ old game they were addicted to...

Serious Sam was fun, but got old real fast... definately an innovative graphics engine.
UT just wasn't that fun to me... but huge to others...
Dues Ex... well, i tried to play it; but it wouldn't launch properly, so i took it back.... but from what people told me, it was good.

[DeMoN]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by DeMoN Sure they wouldnt buy an original hugo boss, which makes buying fake that much idiotic. Everyone would know its fake. ..you don't get it... back in China those folks buying the fake goods cannot afford the real thing anyway... so no loss for the company or the posers who buy the real stuff to show off their prowess and wealth

Sure, no loss, but do you think Hugo Boss wont give a crap knowing people are using thier name on stuff? They'd think that it would "damage" their name.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Shinigami It's not always a win win situation. Some consumer goods are exactly that. You consume them, they go to waste, and you move on. That's money which could have been spent on something else.

Sorry I do not agree.

If you do not have the means to buy some high end branded product, then the money would not have been spent on the high end branded product - period.

If you are talking about cheap low grade products, then it is a wake up call to the actual branded manufacturer - lower you prices, there is an equivalent competitr tea/coffee/soap/gum/plastic cup out there - set your price accordingly or you will lose busimess to the cheap chinese..

Originally Posted by Shinigami I've worked for a few video game companies, and I had first had experience of people pirating games I worked on (Serious Sam, Deus Ex and Unreal Tournament). Rarely did these people end up buying the real deal. They did however enjoy playing the games for a long, long time.

I specifically answered the quesiton above - oh, and regarding Serious Sam, Deus Ex and Unreal Tournament, the titles were so freaking buggy out of the box, no wonder no-one wanted to pay for the first revisions

Originally Posted by Shinigami I'm not of the school of thought where "piracy" increases awareness of a brand or product. It happens in some circles and for some products, but it's an exception rather then a rule.

Folks in China earning $400/year are not about to jump at your expensive imported product... in fact they may not even be aware of your brand other than through popular culture... buying a local fake is not a sale you as the brand owner have lost.

Originally Posted by Shinigami In regards to the NEC products, it appears that the products went on sale in major retail outlets due to very specific cirumstances where the Chinese pirates emulated the entire company.

Sure.. :roll: They emulated phone numbers, websites and fax numbers, they emulated reps and distribution channels.. :roll:

What really happened is the retailer saw prices too good to believe and knew there was 100% or more in profit to be made. They are also criminals in this case.

Originally Posted by Shinigami Once you go this far, it's not all that difficult get a contract signed by a retailer (especially smaller ones who may not be able to go through the entire paperwork needed to verify the authenticity of a product) and then ship your products to the store.

Actually - the truth is, the smaller the retailer the HIGHER the price they would more likely have to pay to get the product - so when they see low prices they KNOW they are buying pirate equipment - and should be prosecuted as the criminals they are - trying to make huge money by knowingly importing and selling fake pirate equipment alongside the real stuff.

I am sorry, there are no excuses for "accidently finding the deal of a life time"... That's called smuggling - it's what crooks, gangsters and criminals do

Originally Posted by Shinigami The problem is that humans inherently get used to a particular taste, and in this case, it is a case of price. If something was affordable because it wasn't the real deal, it will most likely mean that the person will continue to purchase the pirated products because they get more for their money.

Sure, and why not - in those far away markets where the folks make less money per year than the CD player/DVD nav in your car -- they would never be able to afford the real deal - so wehats the problem?

BTW - I thought China was Europes buddy all this time.. What happened - honeymoon oevr already?

Originally Posted by Shinigami So yes, it's arguable that the original company will still not be making any extra cash since the product would never have sold in the first place. But practice breeds behaviour, and it begins with one, and multiplies to millions.

If you want to win that "poor" market, reduce your price to compete

Originally Posted by Shinigami I don't know what it is that you do or make for a living, but I work in the pharmaceutical business now, and if other companies make pirated generics, it cuts into our profits.

Boohoo - a poor drug company gets beaten at their won game because someoen made a generic chemical compound that does the same thign for less..

Originally Posted by Shinigami Money which we could use to not only improve our existing products, but develop new and safer ones.

Wow - that's big of you guys - why not just sell 100x more of the same old stuff.. ?

Originally Posted by Shinigami Remember, it's not just about making money and profits.

Yes it is - that's all it is about. You guys make drugs.. if there was more money in making chemical weapons you would be making those instead...

Originally Posted by Shinigami Companies use the revenues to "improve" themselves.

And maybe that's the problem.. the Chinese seem to be able to make billions not improving anythig, but rather just remaking others items cheaper...

Originally Posted by Shinigami This is what you seem to be lacking in your argument (though I have no doubt you'll have something to say about that... as would I. After all, how much can a La Coste shirt be "improved", hehe).

Well - LeCoste (the fake) would need no improvement - they will just copy this years fashion next year...

Originally Posted by Shinigami Just my two cents.

See - you sell yourself short - no doubt because the Chinese already offer free advice... that's cheaper than yours by 2c..

[nejcdolinsek]

Originally Posted by everso Americans have been been fake Ferraris for YEARS! they're called Corvettes. lol.

HAHA

[redbaron]

This chinese guy must have had some taste, normally those chinese only make bad copies of Chevrolet Matiz and Opel Frontera.....

[RC45]

Originally Posted by everso Americans have been making fake Ferraris for YEARS! they're called Corvettes. lol.

Apparently they are the real deal - what with Ferrari buying parts from GM for decades.

At least Ferrari and Corvette don't make the "Top Ten must have Gay Car list".. like the Audi TT does.

[ferrari550]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by everso Americans have been making fake Ferraris for YEARS! they're called Corvettes. lol. Apparently they are the real deal - what with Ferrari buying parts from GM for decades. At least Ferrari and Corvette don't make the "Top Ten must have Gay Car list".. like the Audi TT does.

HAHA

[RF1]

they cloned everything
simple

[RC45]

Originally Posted by everso Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by everso Americans have been making fake Ferraris for YEARS! they're called Corvettes. lol. Apparently they are the real deal - what with Ferrari buying parts from GM for decades. . sorry man...but Ferrari doesn't give a shit about your plastic kit car replica buying parts from suppliers isn't the same as buying from the company. LOL

You forgot to reply to the "Top Ten Gay car" poll...

[dutchmasterflex]

HAHAHAHA..

[deth]

sigh. does anybody else find this slight ridiculous? i mean ther are TONS of kit cars out there and the EU isnt calling foul on them!

There seems to be a lot of anti-chinese sentiment in some recent threads, and the only reason i can think for that being the case is that china is stealing everybody's money! yes, i do concede that there is A LOT of copyright infringement etc, but isnt most of the overseas money that is flowing into china from 'developed countries' manufacturers in a bid to lower their costs and fatten up their bottom line?!

not trying to start shit, but just trying to present a little balance to the argument