motor

styla21 · 09-08-2008, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Pokiou

There is NO rule stating that when you allow a car to pass you that you need to give him a certain amount of lead before you can you prance back onto him..

unfortuantly they decided that it was unfair to KIMI cause his car was slower lol. . thats pathetic, there is no logic in there decision but only favortism.

Pok, you should stop popping off about irrelevent points.
The facts are, that the stewards deemed Hamilton to gain an advantage by cutting the chicane. You say that Hamilton gave his position back - he didn't, he was on a superior racing line and immediately into Kimi's slipstream. The start/finish speed is irrelevant as Hamilton was in a superior position to attack the next corner, which he wouldn't have been if he hadn't cut the previous chicane.

All of the "he would have won anyway", "Hamilton is superior in the wet", "Kimi crashed anyway" is all completely irrelevant - that didn't happen and therefor can't be argued.

Pokiou · 09-09-2008, 12:05 AM

Mate go read the article and you'll see where i pulled the irrelevent points. Cause the IRRELEVENT points is how the stewards came to the conclusion that Hamilton should of been fined!

But other then that i think you missed mark mate.

teasing mate

Mattk · 09-09-2008, 02:27 AM

Let's think about what happens when someone misses an overtaking manouevre. The driver tucks back behind the chased driver for another go later on. That's just what happens. Hamilton didn't tuck back behind Raikonnen. The FIA has deemed that to be maintaining an advantage. I think that's tough, but not incorrect. Certainly not enough to accuse the FIA of making stuff up to help Ferrari.

Pokiou · 09-09-2008, 02:37 AM

Mattk they have done all year long.. Not impossing penalties to ferrari or anything else. I understand what your saying, but i feel like you havent watched the race proppely. Your stating that he didnt tuck behind him.. HE did tuck behind him.. i dont know mate.. I think your just trying to prove a point that has no point while the rest of the F1 community has agreed that the call was bogus.

But cheers for your input.

Mattk · 09-09-2008, 02:45 AM

He only tucked behind Raikkonen briefly when he was switching to pass on the inside. He went down the straight essentially alongside Raikonnen. Like I said, tough call, but that's the way it rolls.

Pokiou · 09-09-2008, 03:19 AM

There is no rule stating where he cant be and where he has to be in order to resume racing. Nor is ther a rule stating HOW much of a lead he has to give the car before he can accelerate.. hence why the call was bogus and un justified. I know excatly what your say... but you need to understand what are saying which i believe you now do.

SHIZL · 09-09-2008, 04:00 AM

kimi was able to go from the rightside of lewis to the leftside with lewis behind him didnt see alongside him for the the essential straight bogus call why wouldnt they give him drive thru during the race and then kimi running into the back of him eihter way good race we saw the real winner on the grandstand. kimi really felll off in the last stint and should of never let him catch up then when lewis did kimi essentially did what any support would do and tried to cause a error. should be good at monza hopefully heikki repays massa with the same kind of gesture

fordgt84 · 09-09-2008, 05:30 AM

you know they keep on saying he cut the chicane, why aren't they concerned with why he cut the chicane? if u watch the racing lines they normally take going through that chicane, u will see clearly that kimi intentionally ran wide in order to keep hamilton out of the way. now it's kimi's job to defend the lead- fair enough - but then u have hamilton who's left with; either running into kimi's car, braking and probably still making contact with kimi since he's already squeezing the living daylights out of him, or avoiding him completely by cutting the chicane...the safest option.

and about gaining an advantage from kimi's slipstream, lewis was barely directly behind him for more than a second ... the only time he was behind him was that brief moment when kimi went infront of him and lewis moved out to get the inside line... watch

YouTube

it's been 2 days since it happened and i can't believe i'm still upset about it

DeMoN · 09-09-2008, 04:36 PM

Onboard

YouTube

Stewart: F1 needs full-time stewards

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,1895...120502,00.html

styla21 · 09-09-2008, 06:52 PM

Demon that's a really cool vid.. Thanks.
God kimi was wrestling with that wheel at the end!

09-09-2008, 09:20 PM

I don't normally post here but even I have to comment about the apparent screw job that the FIA pulled after the race. I am glad that Mclaren have decided to appeal this decision cause I don't see how Hamiliton avoiding a wreck with Kimi by cutting the chicane and then giving the place back and then taking it back again can be considered an advantage in the rain no less. So hopefully the appeal will be heard and the correct decision will be granted.

SHIZL · 09-09-2008, 10:26 PM

Martin Whitmarsh added: "From the pit wall, we then asked Race Control to confirm that they were comfortable that Lewis had allowed Kimi to repass, and they confirmed twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was 'okay'.

"If Race Control had instead expressed any concern regarding Lewis’s actions at that time, we would have instructed Lewis to allow Kimi to repass for a second time."
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/9/8344.html

Mattk · 09-10-2008, 12:54 AM

There is no rule stating where he cant be and where he has to be in order to resume racing. Nor is ther a rule stating HOW much of a lead he has to give the car before he can accelerate.. hence why the call was bogus and un justified

I'm not sure you can make that connection. There are not rules for everything. The general rule is that you can't gain an advantage through non-legal racing manoeuvres. Everything else is a determination of fact by stewards. They may ultimately proved wrong on appeal, but that does not mean that the process they used was fundamentally wrong.

mts6800 · 09-10-2008, 03:57 AM

This is a test to see if anyone understands the rules.

If you cut a chicane and gain and advantage you will be penalized. Consider a car that is 0.300 seconds behind going into a chicane and braking late, missing the chicane re-entering the track 0.050 seconds behind the leading car. In this scenario he didn't even pass and have to back off to let the leading car ahead. So, did he gain an advantage by cutting the chicane?

DeMoN · 09-10-2008, 05:55 AM

longer onboard http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6o...ltonkimi_sport

you can see how hamilton is catching up to him when the rain is dropping.

Appeal will be heard after the next GP (if at all!!!) yes IF AT ALL. Regulations seem to say that they cannot appeal drive-through penalties. Since this is a drive through penalty awarded AFTER the race, mclaren stands optimistic though no one knows.