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Old 06-23-2005, 10:37 AM   #241
SPEEDKILLAR
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LMAO pneusless :roll:
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damn speedkillar, if you didnt have a title already it would now say 'robofucker' or similar
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Old 06-23-2005, 01:02 PM   #242
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ROFLMFAO!!!! RC that was brilliant
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Old 06-23-2005, 01:07 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by graywolf624
whats the difference with only 6 cars compared to the full field? Jordan and Minardi are that slow all the time anyway
That was my point, every race theres 2 rolling chicanes.. How would a few more matter?
Because the front runners are used to Jordan and Minardi dodging, no matter what the track. The Yellow and Black rolling chicanes don't require testing the way a perma chicane does. And doing that just hours before the race would have made things just as dangerous.

If someone were to miss the braking zone for the chicane coming up on another car, you get the possibility for a very, very nasty wreck Remember what happened to Coulthard at Monaco last year when Sato's engine whited out the water front and Fisichella launched off the back of his McLaren? I'm thinking that same scenario would have been played out at least once during the USGP had that chicane been put there
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Old 06-23-2005, 03:11 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by graywolf624
whats the difference with only 6 cars compared to the full field? Jordan and Minardi are that slow all the time anyway
That was my point, every race theres 2 rolling chicanes.. How would a few more matter?
The difference between top speeds of the front and back of the grid is about 15mph.

The difference in speeds when considering michelin runners going through turn 13 at their reduced speed is about 70-90mph....
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Old 06-23-2005, 03:13 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by ZfrkS62
Remember what happened to Coulthard at Monaco last year when Sato's engine whited out the water front and Fisichella launched off the back of his McLaren? I'm thinking that same scenario would have been played out at least once during the USGP had that chicane been put there
That would play to NASCAR fan's appeal - thereby broadening the appeal of F1 and ultimately increasing revenues.

Once again F1 missed a great marketing opportuniy.
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Old 06-23-2005, 05:21 PM   #246
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Because the front runners are used to Jordan and Minardi dodging, no matter what the track. The Yellow and Black rolling chicanes don't require testing the way a perma chicane does. And doing that just hours before the race would have made things just as dangerous.

If someone were to miss the braking zone for the chicane coming up on another car, you get the possibility for a very, very nasty wreck Remember what happened to Coulthard at Monaco last year when Sato's engine whited out the water front and Fisichella launched off the back of his McLaren? I'm thinking that same scenario would have been played out at least once during the USGP had that chicane been put there
Your still missing it... Im saying if the michelin guys just drove at reduced speed.

The difference in speeds when considering michelin runners going through turn 13 at their reduced speed is about 70-90mph....
I missed where they gave an acceptable speed. Not to mention what about those that slow down for tire issues, for instance kimi a few weeks ago?
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Old 06-23-2005, 07:15 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by RC45
Originally Posted by ZfrkS62
Remember what happened to Coulthard at Monaco last year when Sato's engine whited out the water front and Fisichella launched off the back of his McLaren? I'm thinking that same scenario would have been played out at least once during the USGP had that chicane been put there
That would play to NASCAR fan's appeal - thereby broadening the appeal of F1 and ultimately increasing revenues.

Once again F1 missed a great marketing opportuniy.
one problem with that. The chances of an F1 driver getting killed in that mele are a hell of a lot higher than a nascar "driver" getting killed since nascar guys are completely surrounded.
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Old 06-24-2005, 04:39 AM   #248
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To answer Gray the new tyre rules did have an effect, I am not an expert on the manufacture of tyres but my understanding is that making the tyres more durable placed more stress on the sidewalls. At one point they did admit that they had forgotten to make one calculation. As far as driving slowly through a corner where exactly can they resume normal racing, where must they reduce their pace? Also I can't see the F1 drivers in the middle of a fierce baattle paying too much credence to the restriction, I'm thinking that they would have been pushing the limits of what they were supposedly allowed to do. And pushing beyonf those limits.
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Old 06-24-2005, 06:48 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by mindgam3
The difference in speeds when considering michelin runners going through turn 13 at their reduced speed is about 70-90mph....
Wrong.
If you'd wnat the forces to be lowered by 30% (wihich would be more than enough, a a tire engineer has expalined to me even 10% would be enough), you'd need to reduce speed by 30 mph (and for 10% 10mph). Any driver that cannot work at a relative speed of 30 mph should not be driving ...
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Old 06-24-2005, 09:33 AM   #250
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To answer Gray the new tyre rules did have an effect, I am not an expert on the manufacture of tyres but my understanding is that making the tyres more durable placed more stress on the sidewalls. At one point they did admit that they had forgotten to make one calculation.
Except according to michilin it wasnt related to calculations. It was a material defect that caused binding issues, not tread wear(which is where durability comes in). It was related to the heat in the glue of the tires and not the tread wear itself. If you want a more definitive answer I might be able to give you one when I get back from florida. The guy Im visiting works at a tire plant and is an engineer.

Also I can't see the F1 drivers in the middle of a fierce baattle paying too much credence to the restriction, I'm thinking that they would have been pushing the limits of what they were supposedly allowed to do. And pushing beyonf those limits.
If the fia instituted penalties for violations Im sure they would.
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Old 06-24-2005, 10:49 AM   #251
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Over time the stories coming out of Michelin have changed somewhat, that particular story that I referred to came from quite early on in the drama, it is quite possible that they have amended their story as more information has come to light, however I am not aware of the Michelin explanation at present.

The difficulty with the FIA instituting penalties is that the drivers need to know exactly where their speeds will be measured. Would IMS be happy to have two white lines painted across the track at either end of their famous turn 1? Also some teams would argue that they place less stress on their tyres, as such they should be allowed to go at a higher speed through the turn.

As to the actual stress levels on the tyres at different speeds I would think that the aerodynamics of the cars would have a major effect on those figures, as such for us to guess at stress loadings would be impossible.

The only solution I can see that could have worked would have been for the Michelin teams to run at a reduced speed through turn 13 and not be competing for points. So the 6 Bridgestone runners could duke it out for points while the Michelin guys put on a show around the other 12 corners.
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Old 06-24-2005, 05:20 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by jakaracman
Originally Posted by mindgam3
The difference in speeds when considering michelin runners going through turn 13 at their reduced speed is about 70-90mph....
Wrong.
If you'd wnat the forces to be lowered by 30% (wihich would be more than enough, a a tire engineer has expalined to me even 10% would be enough), you'd need to reduce speed by 30 mph (and for 10% 10mph). Any driver that cannot work at a relative speed of 30 mph should not be driving ...
I don't really agree with these calculations since the forces are mainly due to downforce; downforce is not related linearly with speed like you just stated in your figures
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Old 06-24-2005, 05:33 PM   #253
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Not linearly, but with square of speed (as my calculatons state), as in those calculations. 16% redusction in speed (30 mph at 180 mph) would reduce side forces by 30% - i calculated that from my head on the fly, so it's not really exact, just to show approx numbers ...
It just happoen to look simple linear in my 1st post, it is not, on one sied are hard numbers (mph), on other percentage ...
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Old 06-26-2005, 10:21 PM   #254
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Just thought I'd share
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