CTS-V sets the fastest Ring time for a production sedan (interview with the driver)

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex OK, the manual transmission might be faster, with a competent driver. But we'll have to see if the fastest time will be set with all stability controls off. Oh yea, the magnetic suspension is computer controlled which is never turned off, helping with the overall performance of the car.. mostly trying to hide its weight.

The magnetic ride has been in numerous GM cars since the early 90's .... the ZR1's FX3 suspension was magnetic ride

Yes, a track specific suspension would yeild better results, with less weight, but the V is a luxury car still

[dutchmasterflex]

Could car less how old the technology is, it still an electronic aid which helps this sedan go fast. And it out it, it would not be able to make such a quick lap time.

See my point?

[RC45]

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex OK, the manual transmission might be faster, with a competent driver. But we'll have to see if the fastest time will be set with all stability controls off.

Doesn't matter - these are not "performance aids" - they are "safety aids" and actually slow the car down when invoked.

So, if the car set a fast enouhg time to beat the others turned on, then it will be even faster with it turned off.

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex Oh yea, the magnetic suspension is computer controlled which is never turned off, helping with the overall performance of the car.. mostly trying to hide its weight.

Uhm - thi option is easily bypassed with a plug in simulator to prevent error codes - after which time you remoe the magnetic shocks and replace them with sports shocks, which enthusiasts do all the time - the result is their car is faster on a race track.

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex Could car less how old the technology is, it still an electronic aid which helps this sedan go fast. And it out it, it would not be able to make such a quick lap time. See my point?

Your point?

The car will be faster with these shocks removed.

Thats why people dont race their cars with this system in place.

See my point?

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex Could car less how old the technology is, it still an electronic aid which helps this sedan go fast. And it out it, it would not be able to make such a quick lap time. See my point?

the magnetic ride makes the car firm when "needed" and soft and luxurious when not. w/out the magnetic ride suspension, and only firm track tuned bits... it would be faster

the magnetic ride isn't aiding the driver per say... it's aiding the ride comfort

[dutchmasterflex]

Of course a race suspension would make it go faster. But this is a road car, built for comfort and performance, just like the GT-R.

And using computer assisted suspensions is to improve both performance and ride comfort.

[HeilSvenska]

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex And using computer assisted suspensions is to improve both performance and ride comfort.

I doubt that you'd be willing to call the Ferrari 599 GTB less of a driver's car because it has the magnetorheological damper. Which it does. And I doubt that you'd be willing to say that the 599 GTB and the GT-R are the same kind of animals.

It's not just about what kind of components it uses. The GT-R is based around the thought that electronic gizmos will be the main focus of the car. Its ultimate performance depends on computer programming. (As much as I'd love someone to test this theory, I don't think Nissan or any GT-R owner would like to strip the programming out of the car and test it.) I don't think that was the part of the CTS-V's engineering brief. If anything, the CTS-V mostly relies on the sheer power of the engine and the well sorted chassis.

[toffytofik]

dutchmasterflex, mate, you don't seem to understand the difference






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"The Devil Wears Nitrogen Filled Tires"

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex Of course a race suspension would make it go faster. But this is a road car, built for comfort and performance, just like the GT-R. And using computer assisted suspensions is to improve both performance and ride comfort.

Not talking about race suspension, but suspension which is only the V's current "firm" tune

[HeilSvenska]

@ the pics

[dutchmasterflex]

Originally Posted by HeilSvenska I doubt that you'd be willing to call the Ferrari 599 GTB less of a driver's car because it has the magnetorheological damper. Which it does. And I doubt that you'd be willing to say that the 599 GTB and the GT-R are the same kind of animals. It's not just about what kind of components it uses. The GT-R is based around the thought that electronic gizmos will be the main focus of the car. Its ultimate performance depends on computer programming. (As much as I'd love someone to test this theory, I don't think Nissan or any GT-R owner would like to strip the programming out of the car and test it.) I don't think that was the part of the CTS-V's engineering brief. If anything, the CTS-V mostly relies on the sheer power of the engine and the well sorted chassis.

Heh, I was waiting for this. I never ever said that the CTS-V is less of a drivers car. Sure it's available in a automatic.. but that's besides the point. The new CTS-V, with its trick suspension and new automatic gear box, is still a performance car aimed at enthused drivers.

The only high-tech component that really gives the edge to the GT-R is the DSG gearbox. Most performance road cars have computer suspensions, and similar AWD systems have been used for years. It has simply been dubbed the car for the playstation generation because of its extra features on the dashboard computer.


I hear ya toffy..

[dutchmasterflex]

Originally Posted by nthfinity Not talking about race suspension, but suspension which is only the V's current "firm" tune

Originally Posted by nthfinity and only firm track tuned bits...

firm track tuned bits... ok not racing but track tuned, which would not make buyers happy on the road.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex firm track tuned bits... ok not racing but track tuned, which would not make buyers happy on the road.

People still buy cars like that.... otherwise, the STi wouldn't sell, the c6 Z06, the GT3, and numerous others

[dutchmasterflex]

Yes.. I am fully aware there is a market for that, but what Cadi is trying to do is compete with Audi, Benz and BMW for high performance luxury cruisers.

And anyway, people are taking these 'Ring laptimes way to seriously, and manufacturers are taking advantage of that by using it as a marketing scheme. GT-R becomes the fastest production car, CTS-V becoems the fastest 4 door.. it's all bull shit, and you guys are eating it up.

To break the 8 minute laptime by 1 second on a 14 mile track with an infinite amount of other variables isn't exactly a tribute to the car. It mostly depends on the driver (I don't think anyone who has driven the 'Ring has completed a lap with out admitting to at least 1 mistake, and if you claim you don't you've got to be kidding yourself, pro or not.)

GM is no better than Nissan. They're all corporate car manufactures trying to make a buck.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex The only high-tech component that really gives the edge to the GT-R is the DSG gearbox. Most performance road cars have computer suspensions, and similar AWD systems have been used for years. It has simply been dubbed the car for the playstation generation because of its extra features on the dashboard computer.

Nope - the GT-R relies on its electronic handling to go as fast as it does.

If you took out the magnetic shocks from the CTS-V (or the FE3 Corvette for that matter) and replaced them with stock stiff shocks off the shelf, like Corvette owners do (the FE3/FE4 guys simply put in non-adjustable C6 Z51 or Z06 shocks) the car will still be as quick.

That is the point.

If you took out the all the electronic power distribution and handling managment from the GT-R, and just left it as a 3900lb top heavy boat with only 480bhp it would not be as fast as it currently is.

Period.

That is why race GT-R's are lighter, more powerful and RWD - because they are not allowed the electronic wizardry that is needed to hustlte a top heavy 3900lb 480bhp boat

BTW, we still havent resolved the issue about where is the GT-R better, long fast or short slow tracks

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex Yes.. I am fully aware there is a market for that, but what Cadi is trying to do is compete with Audi, Benz and BMW for high performance luxury cruisers. And anyway, people are taking these 'Ring laptimes way to seriously, and manufacturers are taking advantage of that by using it as a marketing scheme. GT-R becomes the fastest production car, CTS-V becoems the fastest 4 door.. it's all bull shit, and you guys are eating it up. To break the 8 minute laptime by 1 second on a 14 mile track with an infinite amount of other variables isn't exactly a tribute to the car. It mostly depends on the driver (I don't think anyone who has driven the 'Ring has completed a lap with out admitting to at least 1 mistake, and if you claim you don't you've got to be kidding yourself, pro or not.) GM is no better than Nissan. They're all corporate car manufactures trying to make a buck.

your argument appears to stem from you accusing us of plutocracy. Specifically that the V has the aids we seem to hate on the GTR for. But. This is a very different scenario between each car.

the GTR has every aid known to man; many of which take away from the driving experience...

Electronic rear, and center diff
No driver involvement

DSG dual clutch system
No driver involvement

launch control - seems to not work well with timing lights according to Tony Swan... as the GTR chooses when to launch
no driver involvement

stability control
no driver involvement ( likely can be turned off, or down like MB cars)

"overboost" (speculative... no way will 520 hp + 3800 lbs trap 120 mph)
No driver involvement "stacking the deck" so to speak

Suspension management?? (unknown, as I don't remember)
Dynamics at one with the chassis; driver unaffected, except for a nicer ride when going out on a sunday cruise.

meaning.... the car delivers torque, and braking as it sees fit to be at the limit of grip

How does this differ from say... a F430 with many of these fancy features

1. Race mode, the car is still a full 1 second faster a lap with them off...

How does this differ from the CTS V


Suspension management
same as GTR

Stability control
Able to be fully turned off, with driver being able to lap faster around any said track (given the driver is good)