motor

TT · 08-11-2003, 10:35 AM

Dang, I was not aware of that, but at Frankfurt, Alfa Romeo will present the TZ3, that will be produced in 1000 units, the first arriving on the road on 2004!

120'000 € and a top speed of 300 km/h!

It will be build by Zagato, and will be powered by a 24v 3.6 V6 twinturbo developping a healty 480 hp and 600 Nm. The engine will be front mounted and the power will be feeded through the rear wheels by a transaxle taken from Maserati. Yay finally an Alfa not FF!

Only 1000 will be built.

And that's not all, becase a V12 developped by Ferrari will follow in 2006 for a sort of TZ3 GTA. The 6.0 will be the Enzo's one, with around 630 hp and 750 Nm.

And finally, in 2007 there will be a TZ4, with a new 5.0 V10 JTS with 600 hp and 650 Nm, developped by Ferrari again.

If all that will be confirmed, it's pretty amazing!

Ah, the 0-100 of the TZ3 will be around 4 seconds, it will be 4250 mm long..

Here is the only sketch available so far:

Very Modena-a-like... but well, it's only a sketch and BTW, the best part of most Alfa's is the front end, so I'm not worried, just a lot curious!

gis · 08-11-2003, 10:42 AM

wow,that looks pretty nice,never been that keen on alfa's but this one may make me change my mind.

your right it does have a 360 look to it and the alfa that aint FF should be great.and 0-100 in 4 seconds doesnt hurt either,lol

fedezyl · 08-11-2003, 01:59 PM

Aaa, finally! my favorite car maker doing what it does best! Incredibly Fast works of art!

Now I have one question...I heard that Alfa will be using GM V-6's...and I wonder if that 3.6 liter V-6 is the same rubish that powers the Pontiac Grand Prix and Chevrolet Montecarlo....if it is I'm never ever going to buy that car...an american engine on an italian car...what's next? Barbecue sauce on Duck a L'orange? Shame on you alfa if you do that...

TT · 08-11-2003, 02:08 PM

Yeah, that engine is based on GM's one.. but as you read, there will be some Ferrari's ones later on

fedezyl · 08-11-2003, 02:55 PM

Nooooooooooooooooooooo, damn GM! taking over such a precious jewel!!!!!
Why in god's earth do they do that!!!!!?!?!? if there is something that alfa is known for is it's engines! and they throw this turbocharged piece of rubish under the bonnet so as to show the whole world what a piece of crap GM's engines are no no, I oppose the trade and I just wish and pray the same happens to GM as what happened to BMW and Rover, stop taking over what's left of good car making with that junk from the U.S.!!
Sorry for my outburst of rage, but this just makes me insane.....they should stick to build crap and keep it there where they buy it...not ruining such a brand name with this...

AlienDB7 · 08-11-2003, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by fedezyl

Aaa, finally! my favorite car maker doing what it does best! Incredibly Fast works of art!

Now I have one question...I heard that Alfa will be using GM V-6's...and I wonder if that 3.6 liter V-6 is the same rubish that powers the Pontiac Grand Prix and Chevrolet Montecarlo....if it is I'm never ever going to buy that car...an american engine on an italian car...what's next? Barbecue sauce on Duck a L'orange? Shame on you alfa if you do that...

I think it's the new 3.6L they have on the '04 caddy CTS, it's DOHC and has VVT. They don't have the torque curve posted on the gm powertrain site yet, but from the spec on http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/030328-3.htm , it doesn't seem like a bad engine at all.

With a bit of extra help, an american engine can do wonder.. look at the ford engine in the koenigsegg CC and noble M12 GTO.

fedezyl · 08-11-2003, 03:14 PM

Well the problem lies in having to help GM to make a good engine, as before Alfa Romeo either did their own engines or took a fiat engine for a base, wich in my opinion is still a much better base than a GM engine...
See, american engines always seem to be playing catch up with technology...and they lack the sound an Alfa V-6 does..
I don't know, I've driven a montecarlo with that same V-6....it's hideous, not because it's a bad engine, but because it's just an engine, it has no soul, it just does it's job of propelling the car and that's it, it would be the same as driving any other plain car like a Kia, it's just a car...
See, the thing I don't like about american engines is that they seem to be all power and show, but then as you reach 4500 5000 rpm's they run out of breath, all sound but nothing else, Japanese engines on the other hand do the oposite, no breath at low rpm's and then all of the sudden they explode in rage making that hideous bumblebee noise (honda engines in particular), as per the italians, sport's car wise, it's like an opera it start's down low where you can feel the rumble and it progressively start's picking up energy until it's a full on Tenor...it's beautifull to hear, you can feel the soul of the engine just wanting to go and go and not stop, it's like i'm build for this, it's a harmonious match, if not ask jabba what he feels when he opens the throttle from down low on the RPM's on his Lambo or 355, how it start's exploding in a loud melody of sound and energy..
Something that american and japanese engines are lacking....so far...(who knows in the future), soul, passion...
It's like football (soccer for our american fellows), see the U.S. result to tacticts and quite possibly football videos and stuff, Japan uses practice and mechanisation (they're all robot's that do the same all the time and can't surprise you), and take the UK, France, Argentina, Brazil, Spain, Football it's a passion, it's played by it's people everyday everywhere, it has a soul, it's done with passion because it's been there for ever, same goes for car's and italians, it's part of their nature, part of their soul, that's why they are so good at it, they do it for the passion...

AlienDB7 · 08-11-2003, 04:15 PM

I have to agree with you on the american engine. They're lacking on torque above 4000-4500rpm. The problem is partly due to the pushrod design. I have a gm 3.4L in my car, sometimes I do find it more fun driving in the parking than in city "50kph" traffic. You probably say it's a bad engine, it is compared to a european one. However, I still like it more than say a gutless honda engine. I drove different accords, like you said, they're pretty boring unless you really open the throttle up.

Can't blame the japanese, even their ads say the car just goes (without you thinking about the driving)

fedezyl · 08-11-2003, 04:36 PM

Yeah, if I had to choose between the two I would pick the GM engine, I just hate that bumblebee sound, I drove an Integra not so long ago and even though it is fast, it's still just a plain car, no soul or anything that you would say I'd love to have one, as Clarkson would say it would be in the uncool wall...seems like the japs are so focused on one thing that they forget the rest of the car, like they first build the engine and then say "well we just need something to put it on now" so they go and drink some sake and come up with the dullest car ever....but it goes fast...
oh well...love it or hate it I guess..

draak666 · 08-11-2003, 05:23 PM

Wow, fedezyl, I've never heard anyone going on so passionate about engines man

1zippo1 · 08-11-2003, 05:36 PM

This car looks promising.

But are you all sure it's not just the Brera they're talking about? Because they were thinking about lauching it and it was pretty popular at the motorshows...

AlienDB7 · 08-11-2003, 06:29 PM

More information on the engine: http://www.italiaspeed.com/news_2003...3_084news.html
and the car: http://www.italiaspeed.com/news_2003...03_087tz3.html

power: 480cv @ 6300rpm & 600Nm @ 3000rpm

That should keep fedezyl happy, good low end torque and high end power

tekwar · 08-11-2003, 11:31 PM

is there really any difference between that sketch and a real 360? it looks like they took the plans from the 360 and stuck an alfa badge to the back.

fedezyl · 08-12-2003, 02:37 PM

LOL...

Yeah I know...looks promising...but it's still GM based....It looks like they've redone most of the engine though...oh well welcome to mass producing I guess, we will see what happens...hopefully they do a good job and it turn's out to be a good engine...I have my finger's crossed and my prayers on it...
And about being passionate about engines...yeah...not only car engines, Airplane engine's are fascinating too, specially those WW2 v-12...now that's a good sounding engine....just so if anyone now about wich ones i'm talking about the Rolls Royce Merlin and the BMW 601 engine (radial)