*** 2005 United States Grand Prix ***

[SFDMALEX]

Originally Posted by Braden Head SFDMALEX - I have got to say that the picture you have posted has some of the best ever cars in it.

www.fiagt.com

[bmagni]

Originally Posted by Ronin005 Originally Posted by RC45 Finally - proof that FIA what really stands for... Ferrari's Inside Ally. Not that we haven't seen this kind of Ferrari-sided decision before - just think back to all the class rule changes made by the FIA since 1964 at least, that have allowed Ferrari to recover from some disadvantage, not by designing a better car, but by having the competition's car outlawed by a rule change because they beat Ferrari in a season. Formula One, Sports Car, Sports Prototype etc etc.. So no surprise here. Problem: Tyres and track safety. Solution: Change the track and postpone the race by 6 hours allowing the teams to do some test laps - then fine Michelin $10 Million for bad practices and call it a day. This should have been treated no differently than if a 10 inch rainstorm showed up and delayed everything for 6 hours. *shrug* F1 wanted to get into the cash rich US market - pity they won't be asked to come back again... [disclaimer] I couldn't be bothered to read the preceding 9 pages before I posted... if FIA was favoring Ferrari, why did Ferrari go 20 years without winning a drivers championship?? and 15 years without winning a constructors championship?? thats one hell of a way of favoring a team.

21 to be precise, i was gonna say the same thing, but theyll find another excuse to keep arguing...

[antonioledesma]

20-21 years... what does it REALLY matter???

I believe FIA protects ferrari as the same way you can do it with your oldest "customer" in a bussiness and he hepls you. It isn't that wrong, but it can be seen as a bad thing

[ZfrkS62]

Originally Posted by Braden Head As a Formula 1 freak I can only say that my stomach dropped to the ground after getting up at 03:00am to watch the other teams go into the pits. I feel totaly sorry for the fans that went to the track and that they are compensated in the future. FIA is the only organisation that the anger can be focust on as they could have awarded a points system or modified the track to accomodate a race worthy of putting the lights out for. thanks Mark. SFDMALEX - I have got to say that the picture you have posted has some of the best ever cars in it.

all the Michelin teams are facing a $16M fine for the chaos. Most of that money will probably go to the IMS for compensation for ticket refunds. Last i heard there were 6 lawsuits and one class action suit filed against formula one management for the disgrace of a showing on Sunday.

Apparently the FIA has a $16M fine for any team that fails to put 2 cars on the track for a race. BAR was fined for both races they missed while they were banned for the fuel tank issue.

[5vz-fe]

16 millions is quite a bit even in F1 terms, I am sure stoddart is glad that he run at the race now.

[TransAm]

Originally Posted by ZfrkS62 all the Michelin teams are facing a $16M fine for the chaos. Most of that money will probably go to the IMS for compensation for ticket refunds. Last i heard there were 6 lawsuits and one class action suit filed against formula one management for the disgrace of a showing on Sunday. Apparently the FIA has a $16M fine for any team that fails to put 2 cars on the track for a race. BAR was fined for both races they missed while they were banned for the fuel tank issue.

Hang on a minute, am I missing something here? Technically, the teams did field their cars for the race but then retired at the end of lap 1, as I understand it?

I'm not disputing your post, Zfrk, I'm just a bit confused!

[bmagni]

Originally Posted by Ronin005 Originally Posted by bmagni Originally Posted by Ronin005 if FIA was favoring Ferrari, why did Ferrari go 20 years without winning a drivers championship?? and 15 years without winning a constructors championship?? thats one hell of a way of favoring a team. 21 to be precise, i was gonna say the same thing, but theyll find another excuse to keep arguing... 20 years, in 1979 Jody Scheckter won it and then 2000 Michael Schumacher. the year that they won doesnt count.

depends on the point of view, actually 21 years passed until they won, 20 seasons without winning

[graywolf624]

Hang on a minute, am I missing something here? Technically, the teams did field their cars for the race but then retired at the end of lap 1, as I understand it? I'm not disputing your post, Zfrk, I'm just a bit confused!

Im not sure that parade lap counts as the race, thats probably where the question lies.

[TransAm]

Thanks for the clarification Ronin

[bmagni]

Originally Posted by Ronin005 Originally Posted by bmagni Originally Posted by Ronin005 Originally Posted by bmagni Originally Posted by Ronin005 if FIA was favoring Ferrari, why did Ferrari go 20 years without winning a drivers championship?? and 15 years without winning a constructors championship?? thats one hell of a way of favoring a team. 21 to be precise, i was gonna say the same thing, but theyll find another excuse to keep arguing... 20 years, in 1979 Jody Scheckter won it and then 2000 Michael Schumacher. the year that they won doesnt count. depends on the point of view, actually 21 years passed until they won, 20 seasons without winning they won in 1979 and then they won in 2000, thats 20 years from 1980 to 1999 with no championship.

from the end of the 1979 championship to the end of the 2000 championship is 21 years.

[ZfrkS62]

Originally Posted by TransAm2001 Originally Posted by ZfrkS62 all the Michelin teams are facing a $16M fine for the chaos. Most of that money will probably go to the IMS for compensation for ticket refunds. Last i heard there were 6 lawsuits and one class action suit filed against formula one management for the disgrace of a showing on Sunday. Apparently the FIA has a $16M fine for any team that fails to put 2 cars on the track for a race. BAR was fined for both races they missed while they were banned for the fuel tank issue. Hang on a minute, am I missing something here? Technically, the teams did field their cars for the race but then retired at the end of lap 1, as I understand it? I'm not disputing your post, Zfrk, I'm just a bit confused!

I believe the issue is lying in the fact that they pulled the cars from the race before the completion of the 1st lap. technically, they did not even complete the parade lap. However, there could be a boycott in france and should that happen, then the teams who do not show up WILL be nailed for $16M each. And at this point it is once again Michelin that is causing this.

Not sure of the details on it, or why they would boycott the next race, I think it may be because of the fact the race was allowed to run, but it's looking like the season is fucked either way

I'm going to try and find out a little more. Sorry for the confusion but i'm hearing this from one of my coworkers wh frequents the F1 news sites.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Ronin005 Originally Posted by bmagni Originally Posted by Ronin005 Originally Posted by RC45 Finally - proof that FIA what really stands for... Ferrari's Inside Ally. Not that we haven't seen this kind of Ferrari-sided decision before - just think back to all the class rule changes made by the FIA since 1964 at least, that have allowed Ferrari to recover from some disadvantage, not by designing a better car, but by having the competition's car outlawed by a rule change because they beat Ferrari in a season. Formula One, Sports Car, Sports Prototype etc etc.. So no surprise here. Problem: Tyres and track safety. Solution: Change the track and postpone the race by 6 hours allowing the teams to do some test laps - then fine Michelin $10 Million for bad practices and call it a day. This should have been treated no differently than if a 10 inch rainstorm showed up and delayed everything for 6 hours. *shrug* F1 wanted to get into the cash rich US market - pity they won't be asked to come back again... [disclaimer] I couldn't be bothered to read the preceding 9 pages before I posted... if FIA was favoring Ferrari, why did Ferrari go 20 years without winning a drivers championship?? and 15 years without winning a constructors championship?? thats one hell of a way of favoring a team. 21 to be precise, i was gonna say the same thing, but theyll find another excuse to keep arguing... 20 years, in 1979 Jody Scheckter won it and then 2000 Michael Schumacher. the year that they won doesnt count.

Look at what else Ferrari was involved in over that 20 year period The FIA favours them everywhere they governe the "sport"

[antonioledesma]

:roll: this is just like the discussion of when the 21st century began. If in 2000 or 2001.

and it began 2001.

and I'm with ronin

[ZfrkS62]

here's the article outlining what is going on. seems i was a bit off. i guess it's not 16mil each. collectively it's 16 mil ops:

From speedtv.com

A report from French news agency AFP reveals that the FIA could order the seven Michelin-shod Formula 1 squads that boycotted last week's United States Grand Prix to pay a collective fine of circa $16 million, destined to refund the paying customers who attended the event at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. F1's governing body has scheduled a World Motor Sport Council hearing for June 29, in which the teams - Renault, McLaren-Mercedes, Toyota, Williams-BMW, BAR-Honda, Sauber and Red Bull - will have to answer to accusations of disrespecting articles 151c and 131 of the FIA's International Sporting Code (click here for story). Yet since sanctions similar to the two-race ban applied to BAR-Honda after it ran illegal cars at the San Marino GP would in effect render the 2005 championship unviable - a repeat of the six-cars-only USGP grid is certainly the last thing on the FIA's mind - the possibility of financial punishment looks increasingly likely. "I think Michelin and the seven teams should compensate the fans," FIA president Max Mosley has been quoted as saying. F1 action resumes with tire testing... The main characters of the USGP fiasco - tires - are again the center of attention as F1's squads go back to work this week. Ironically, the Bridgestone and Michelin teams again won't go head-to-head, as Ferrari will be the sole conductor of testing for the Japanese marque at Barcelona beginning today (Tuesday) before being joined by Jordan on Thursday, while all Michelin teams bar Red Bull are expected to start working at the Jerez circuit, also in Spain, on Wednesday. The French tiremaker has already stated that it won't be evaluating the Indy tire to assess the causes for its product's several failures at IMS, choosing instead to focus on finding the appropriate compound for the next race of the 2005 championship, the French GP on July 3.

http://speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/17736/


F1 may return to Indy next year

Considering the Indianapolis Motor Speedway’s huge clout on the local economy, IMS president Joie Chitwood admitted to the Indianapolis Star that the United States Grand Prix might as well return to the facility next year, despite last week’s fiasco caused by the boycotting of the race by Formula 1’s seven Michelin-shod teams. "[This decision] is going to affect a lot of people. It's important that we understand our role in this and make some good decisions," Chitwood said of the possibilities for a 2006 USGP at Indy. It is estimated that the race generates revenues upward of $100 million for local businesses. As it faces the inevitable fan claims for refunds, the Speedway has erected a banner above the entrance of its administration office with the phrase, “We are disappointed too.” According to the Star, three lawsuits have already been filed by fans holding the FIA, Michelin and IMS accountable for not producing the type of event advertised.

http://speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/17734/

Michelin teams face stiff charges

The seven Michelin teams summoned by the FIA for boycotting the USGP at Indy will face serious charges when they appear at a World Motor Sport Council hearing on June 29 to justify their acts. Formula 1’s governing body has made public on its website the contents of the correspondence sent to the squads - Renault, McLaren-Mercedes, Toyota, Williams-BMW, BAR-Honda, Sauber and Red Bull - leaving little doubt of how deep the FIA intends to go with the matter. The letter asks the outfits’ principals to attend the hearing - “in which you may be assisted by the counsel of your choice” - to “answer charges that you have committed one or more acts prejudicial to the interests of a competition, namely the 2005 United States Grand Prix, and/or to the interests of motor sport generally,” as defined by Article 151c of the FIA’s International Sporting Code. The “prejudicial acts” listed are: “-failed to ensure that you had a supply of suitable tires for the race and/or -wrongfully refused to allow your cars to start the race and/or -wrongfully refused to allow your cars to race, subject to a speed restriction in one corner which was safe for such tires as they had available and/or -combined with other teams to make a demonstration damaging to the image of Formula 1 by pulling into the pits immediately before the start of the race and failed to notify the stewards of your intention not to race, in breach of Article 131 of the FIA Formula 1 Sporting Regulations.” The mentioned article mandates that the starting grid will be published four hours prior to the start of a race, and that competitors willing to withdraw from the competition must inform race stewards “no later than 45 minutes” before the start of the race. The letter wraps up notifying that a full dossier detailing the charges will be sent to the teams “within 48 hours.”

http://speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/17731/

The circus music quickly changes to the Imperial March

[bmagni]

Originally Posted by Ronin005 Originally Posted by bmagni Originally Posted by Ronin005 Originally Posted by bmagni Originally Posted by Ronin005 Originally Posted by bmagni Originally Posted by Ronin005 if FIA was favoring Ferrari, why did Ferrari go 20 years without winning a drivers championship?? and 15 years without winning a constructors championship?? thats one hell of a way of favoring a team. 21 to be precise, i was gonna say the same thing, but theyll find another excuse to keep arguing... 20 years, in 1979 Jody Scheckter won it and then 2000 Michael Schumacher. the year that they won doesnt count. depends on the point of view, actually 21 years passed until they won, 20 seasons without winning they won in 1979 and then they won in 2000, thats 20 years from 1980 to 1999 with no championship. from the end of the 1979 championship to the end of the 2000 championship is 21 years. they won in 79 and 00, so you shouldnt be counting them. guess we all have our own way of doing things.

i get you way of counting, your counting the seasons, as winning 79 and 2000, yeah thats "20 years" withot winning the championship, thats not the real time.
im actually counting from the day they won the championship in 79 to the day they won in 2000. Jody Sheckter won the championship in sept 9th 1979 and Schumacher in oct 8th 2000, thats 21 years and 29 days that took em to win another championship.