motor

JiggaStyles09 · 12-15-2004, 05:37 PM

Hey guys, just thought i would pass this along. i was browsing some other forums and thought i would post it up on here since it seemed pretty interesting.

this is just rumored info though. i dont want anyone to think that i am posting up official specs.

anyways just give me your opinions on the matter

and here is the stuff:

Originally Posted by the mustang source forums

Remember - don't shoot the messenger because of the message. I was just told this just moments ago and wanted to pass it on.

From an extremely reliable inside source at SVT (who is best friends with my sister's husband), this is supposedly the gospel of a lot of what we will see in the new Cobra. This car is already scheduled to debut at the Detroit Auto Show in January of 2006 with delivery available in mid (May/June) 2006 as a MY2007. Prototypes that are on the streets today are almost indistinguishable from other SN197's other than tires and exhaust note. There are a couple using unorthodox hood arrangements but these are supposedly not the cars with the drivetrains we will see. Here is what I was told will be the heart and soul of the next Cobra. Time will tell...

Motor: 5.4 Supercharged, 3 valve heads (with HUGE valves), forged internals similar to the 4.6 (Crank, rods, etc), modestly rated (under rated actually) ~465 HP/495 lb ft Torque, using a twin screw S/C similar to that on the Ford GT but pullied differently, hence the lower HP. This motor was supposedly made official (in house only) just in the last few days. It will NOT be rated the equal or even close HP-wise as the Ford GT exotic for exclusivity reasons. It will have more restrictive intake/exhaust systems than the Ford GT which is partly to blame for the lower performance numbers. Also, a cold air induction system will purportedly being looked at as an option but may be standard if it can get past the bean counters.

Transmissions: 6 speed manuals standard with a heavy duty 5 speed auto (the tranny used on the Ford Superduty but programmed/geared differently) as an option in late '07 or the '08 M/Y.

Suspensions: A re-engineered, heavy duty IRS will be an option with a modified 3 link/panhard bar-live axle setup as the standard rear axle. SVT will be going for the Road Race buyer as well as the straight line racer with both axles optional. However, the Axle options are not set in stone as of the moment but look highly likely to be approved. The Cobra will be lowered about 1.5" from a stock GT.

Bodywork: The retro theme will continue with a serious nod to the '67 Shelby. The fenders may be flared more than the standard '05 but that is not for certain as of now. The ducktail will be factory installed. Also, no convertible is planned for now but no reason was given other than concerns over chassis reliability due to the torque volume.

According to "John Doe" (he does not want to get 'relieved' of his assignment), only 3 of the Cobra protos built so far have the S/C'd 5.4 in them. There are actually 6 or 7 on the streets now, not all at the same time but there are similarly painted versions of different cars. There are also supposed to be three Protos with 6+ liter motors in them, 2 with blowers, one that is N/A but these will not be used in the next generation Cobra.

Supposedly, the 6+ Liter motors (he does not know the precise specs on them) are a Hurricane based engine with radical camming and a "first for Ford style of fuel delivery." I have no idea what he means by that and he would not elaborate to my sister either - apparently he was only repeating what he was told.

Tires: Alledgedly, the 5.4 S/C'd cars are running 315's on the rears, 275's on the fronts using 18" rims. Similar setups are on the other Protos. However, the 315's may only be optional with 295's being the standard fare.

Performance: The 5.4 S/C'd cars have been clocked in the very low 12's (12.10-12.25) in the quarter at nearly 120 mph and have been traction limited, according to "John". They are also supposedly able to pull over 1 G in handling.

Per "John", SVT is also adding enormous brakes and will be using an air cooled Intercooler, opting away from the water cooled version used previously due to reliability concerns (?). Other touches will possibly include some form of active/adjustable suspension as an option but he did not know much about it.

Supposedly, we should expect a price to be in the very high $30k range (base price - 6 speed, live axle, base tire/wheel combos) according to his sources in the know.

Also - prototype Mach 1's are also on the streets. These are supposedly running N/A'd 5.4's, tuned for 370hp with the 6 speed transmissions for now and debate still ongoing about which auto to use. None of the proto Mach's are running the Shaker hood to keep them cloaked to spying eyes. This car is supposed to appear for the '06 M/Y with some final tweaking to be set in stone by Jan/Feb 2005.

"John Doe" is considered to be an extremely reliable source. He said that Ford will rely heavily on already built/designed components rather than exotic pieces.

He also said that Ford is hoping to stymie the rumored F-body's comeback sales numbers with more powerful engines in the V6/GT Mustang in M/Y 2007 cars, perhaps as high as 20% increases in HP/Torque with 10-12% increases in fuel economy. If true, we could be seeing 320/325 HP GT's in 2007! Purportedly, GM is planning to use detuned LS2's in the F-bodies and Ford wants to head them off early with upgraded 3v motors.

I believe this info to be highly accurate based upon the source.

edit-oh i almost forgot here is the link from where the info came from.
link: :arrow: http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=10660

ikon2003 · 12-15-2004, 06:02 PM

Interesting find - good news to ford fans i guess.

Vansquish · 12-15-2004, 08:56 PM

Glad to hear that the SVT cars are coming back on track. I don't know that I believe this all 100%, but the idea of the SVT running what is in essence a detuned version of the Ford GT's motor is pretty damned appealing, as is the lowered suspension and the prospect of 315 rubber at the rear. Clocking passes in the low to mid 12's is pretty impressive for a bone-stock vehicle too. Can't wait to see what it looks like

noliebro · 12-16-2004, 01:31 AM

Are you talking about the Shelby Mustang or Shelby Cobra ? I know you are talking about the mustang but I started reading thinking you were talking about the Cobra, need to clarify.

noliebro · 12-16-2004, 01:33 AM

nevermind, I am an idiot, you only mentioned Sheelby once in this thing, guess I have a one track mind, what ever happened with the Shelby Cobra Concept anyway, LOL

nthfinity · 12-16-2004, 01:46 AM

well, i will suggest that some of the above stated is 100% accurate, while other prospects suggested are being heavily debated.

also, remember me saying that the prototypes have welded doors...
oh, and those numbers are still under-rating the hp/tq figures...

dons5 · 12-16-2004, 03:13 AM

lol for the first bit i thought it was about the shelby cobra, not the Mustang cobra, until i read the bodywork part. Its hilarious how they say supposedly in 07 the regular gt would be having 320-325 horses when the Camaro SS and Trans Am WS6 had that in 98

Vansquish · 12-16-2004, 03:16 AM

The SVT Cobra was supposed to have that in '99 as well, but there were some...ahem...problems with the outputs as I recall...

dons5 · 12-16-2004, 04:13 AM

lol oh ya i rememebr that, well even in 03 a 98 ws6 could still beat a cobra until the cobra got the supercharger in 04 with i think it was 390 hp or did it get that in 03?? whatever the point is from around 93 till the end of production the Fbodys where always faster then the mustangs, well maybe excpet for the 2000 Cobra R but that was basically a race car for the road. Its one of if not my favorite mustang ever probably mostly because of its race car focus, its so rare and different then even regular cobras and because they make all that power with a non aspirated engine.

T-Bird · 12-16-2004, 04:25 AM

Well let's just say I hope I have a job by 2007 because I will be buying this car as fast as I can. Even if it cost me $50k I will own this car. Interest can't even stop me from buying this car. I will live in a small 1 bedroom apartment. Hell it will be great working for Audi and owning a Cobra.

TransAm · 12-16-2004, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by dons5

lol oh ya i rememebr that, well even in 03 a 98 ws6 could still beat a cobra until the cobra got the supercharger in 04 with i think it was 390 hp or did it get that in 03?? whatever the point is from around 93 till the end of production the Fbodys where always faster then the mustangs, well maybe excpet for the 2000 Cobra R but that was basically a race car for the road. Its one of if not my favorite mustang ever probably mostly because of its race car focus, its so rare and different then even regular cobras and because they make all that power with a non aspirated engine.

The Cobra got the s/c in 2003, you are right - 390hp. Before that the SVT had (i think) 305hp, the F-bodies having 325hp.

I drove a 2001 SVT the same day I drove the WS6 which I now own. I guess my purchase decision tells you which one I thought was better! To be honest there wasn't a huge amount of difference in performance...

I need to try one of these new mustangs just to see what they are like. I live 500yds from a Ford dealership so I might test drive one this weekend.

dons5 · 12-16-2004, 04:54 PM

ya ur so lucky to have a ws6, to this day u might think im crazy but they are my absolute fav car under like Maserati prices. There jus so deadly looking especially when lowered and with 18's. But ya the Cobra if its supposed to be that powerfull will be insane but if we start seeing as many mustangs as we do of the 94+ body styles then i dunno if id want one still, might rather prefer a new Fbody if they come out even if they are a lil slower they might be more rare and stylish.

FoxFour · 12-16-2004, 07:11 PM

Team Mustang really needed to address the weight problem of the new platform. In the recent issue of 5.0 Magazine, they put the Mustang GT on a scale and it weighed a little over 3900 lbs with two people on board, the driver being only 175 lbs and the passenger weighing 150. Now add the extra weight of the supercharger and it's ancillaries, the big, heavier wide rims and tires and the extra girth of an IRS (Which I bet will still be a leftover of the MN-12('89-98 ) project) and your talking heavy. Sure, the new 5.4 will be able to handle the extra girth but what about how the car will feel in the twisties. You could feel the weight difference between the Fox and FoxFour chassis with the FoxFour chassis feeling like it needs a little Slim Fast.

graywolf624 · 12-16-2004, 09:01 PM

a detuned version of the Ford GT's motor is pretty damned appealing,

I don't think that would be a bright idea on fords part.. The current ford gt motor is one of the worst motors for efficiency out there..

For comparison sake.. it weighs over 700 lbs.. Comparitively.. a ls2 block.. a 6 liter.. weighs only 4xx lbs. The 427 there rumouring in the new vette is not anywhere near 700 lbs either.

But what do I know... the 4.6 supercharged engine out of the last mustang wasn't exactly a sports car engine(outweighed the outgoing 5.0 significantly and had a larger external profile.. also had the noted reliability).

I think their best bet is a new engine.. Frankly, I think they need new engines all the way around, cause thats the one aspect of fords programs that simply isn't up to par.

FoxFour · 12-16-2004, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by graywolf624

But what do I know... the 4.6 supercharged engine out of the last mustang wasn't exactly a sports car engine(outweighed the outgoing 5.0 significantly and had a larger external profile.. also had the noted reliability).

I think their best bet is a new engine.. Frankly, I think they need new engines all the way around, cause thats the one aspect of fords programs that simply isn't up to par.

Yes, I think that is what Ford needs to do as well, but coming up with a new engine platform will cost a ton of money. Right now, GM has the perfect powerplant, everybody laughed, well; everyone except the late Smokey Yunik because they were sticking with the OHV design. The Ford DOHC engine is great IMO, but it really wasn't designed for high-po applications, just look at the 4.6's square-bore design. It will be interesting to see what the upcoming Hurricane engine project is going to look like. Will they be able to make a 5+ liter engine out of this new, upcoming design? Something in between the 4.6 and the upcoming 6 liter?