European Cars are not Overpriced, Americans just build shit!

[FoxFour]

I think that we can all agree that for the past several years, the big three have made great strides in quality and dependability. Both GM and Chrysler have made plans to improve the quality of the interiors, I guess with the proliferation of many sucessful Asian and European brands, namely Toyota, Honda and Volkswagen, the US consumer expects more for their dollar. Hey, competition is good.
Now, to say that all European car companies are superior to the American companies? What about Fiat and Alfa Romeo? A co-worker of mine, who hails from Venice, says that Fiat in his country is notorious for building crappy cars.

[T-Bird]

Originally Posted by toronto No one but North Americans buy the minivan, and all the profits from the current sales of them go back to germany cause it is owned by a German company (or didn't you know?)

Well except the Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Pontiac, Mercury, And the Chrysler/Dodge minivans (which do sell overseas) Haven't changed significantly since the merger so it's not a German.

[graywolf624]

"No one but North Americans buy the minivan,"

First off thats untrue. I know for a fact they sell other minivans over there. The PT cruiser is just one I watched top gear review.
Furthermore, what you guys call people movers is basically an ugly minivan.

So you want to say mercedes is being influenced by chrysler huh?

Well I guess under the same statements subaru, saab, volvo, aston martin, mazda, fiat, land rover, Opel, Vauxhaul, jag, and Holden have all been drug through the mud and destroyed by their partial to full american ownership..
Bah.

[amanthapar]

american build cars mainly for the middle class.. the expensive amercan cars i think is the saleen .. that is just a one off..
then we got the gt40 ... price of the cheapest ferrari..
then there dodge sr 10.. also abt the 260 price...
....

i cant think of any more now, but the point im making is that they build cars that will sell... i.e market orientated cars...
where as euro cars are producted orientated which is why euro cars are more $$$ and BETTER.

[T-Bird]

are you taling about the SRT-10 Ram? or the RT-10 Viper because both are alot cheaper than a Ferrari.

[Toronto]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 "No one but North Americans buy the minivan," First off thats untrue. I know for a fact they sell other minivans over there. The PT cruiser is just one I watched top gear review. Furthermore, what you guys call people movers is basically an ugly minivan.

the sales of minivan's in europe are no where near as good as in the states, And the largest minivan producer (Chrysler/Dodge) has all its profits go to Germany. Since the company is owned by Merc

2nd the PT cruiser is not a minivan it is a truck because it could not make the cut as a car on many test. (nor was it ever supposed to be a minivan)

[amanthapar]

umm yeah well srt -10..
.................................................. ...........

and id like to add this to my previous post .. im not saying that euros are superior its just that they have more know-how to build cars.. the knowledged compared to americans is slightly more.. which is another reason why euros build better cars..
if u dont belive .. MCF-1, enzo, SLR, Carrera gt.. are peak of euros cars..
compare it to a Saleen well the saleen wont be far behind i think but would not be able to be in that league though.

[T-Bird]

the PT cruiser is not a Minivan OR a truck it's categorized as a station wagon by insurance companies. And not all the profits from Chrysler goes to Germany it was a Merger not a buy-out there is a difference you know And everybody knows that Daimler/Chrysler merged a few years back.

[graywolf624]

2nd the PT cruiser is not a minivan it is a truck because it could not make the cut as a car on many test. (nor was it ever supposed to be a minivan)

It's a minivan. All the magazines place it in the minivan category. It looks like a minivan.. ITs from the company that invented minivans.. Minivans dont have to drive like a car. Your people cars are basically minivans as well.

If it quaks like a duck, its usually a duck.

[Toronto]

Originally Posted by T-Bird And not all the profits from Chrysler goes to Germany it was a Merger not a buy-out there is a difference you know And everybody knows that Daimler/Chrysler merged a few years back.

yes all profits do go to germany, now these are profits, have you taken a class on accounting?

after everyone in good ol' US of A, is paid off, the money left over go to germany, and yes it was a "merger" (quotes with fingers) but Daimler Benz is still the father/mother company they are the one holding onto chryslers choke chain.

and i heard from someone from a Chrysler dealer that he PT could not make (or did poorly) on tests that delt with emissions and crashes as a car, so they bumped it up as a truck to the gov.

and here is a site proving my point,

http://www.chicagolandmopar.com/news/w000311d.asp

aslo this site uses the word truck
http://www.alldata.com/recall/make/C...T_Cruiser.html

another side proving my right

http://ptcw.truckmoxie.com/

this PT fan site, as the word truck in the url, as well almost all the links are truck related?

so i guess i was wrong?

[graywolf624]

"Daimler Benz is still the father/mother company they are the one holding onto chryslers choke chain. "

Its daimler Chrysler.. not daimler.

"this PT fan site, as the word truck in the url, as well almost all the links are truck related?
"
These idiot fanboys also drive their cars to classica car shows and think they have something special.

Consumer reports has the ptcruiser as a compact car.

Reviews minivans: http://www.carreview.com/Minivans/Ch...7_1530crx.aspx

Dodge didnt market it as a minivan cause it sounded cooler but it is:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=3247

"In reality, this unusual vehicle is a mini minivan""PT Cruiser is really a small minivan, not the customized hot rod it appears to be."
http://articles.findarticles.com/p/a...78/ai_61755513

"because it's really a cleverly disguised mini-minivan."
http://www.hardrive.com/reviews/01PT.htm

It's based ona car chasis.. it has nothing in common with a truck.. It is a minivan they managed to make people think is special.. Just like the backstreet boys are a bunch of dancers they convinced people could sing.

[T-Bird]

Originally Posted by toronto yes all profits do go to germany, now these are profits, have you taken a class on accounting?

Yes I have taken an Accounting class Jackass I know what profits are but you have to realize that with a merger there is not exactly one person getting all the profits there are still americans reining some of those profits their way.

Maybe I can state that simpler for you...
Money go to big man in suit at Chrysler AND Mercedes

[Toronto]

graywolf624- yes i understand your point but, "PT Cruiser is really a small minivan" it really is a minivan at hart maybe, but the USA government says it is a truck, so it is a truck i am sorry. I know it is based on a neon or what ever but if you read this they could only call it a truck for many reasons

http://www.chicagolandmopar.com/news/w000311d.asp

T-Bird (is that is your real name )

"Shares of Chrysler (C) were off 11/16 at 48-5/16 late Tuesday on the New York Stock Exchange.
Chrysler's $38 billion transatlantic merger with Daimler-Benz is entering the finishing stretch.
Last week, Daimler-Benz shareholders decided overwhelmingly to swap their Daimler stock for shares in the newly-created DaimlerChrysler company. About 97 percent of shareholders tendered their Daimler stock.
Daimler needed more than 90 percent of shareholders to tender their shares so the deal could be classed as a merger, rather than a takeover. "

see that last line is very important, cause it says that is can be called a merger rather then a takeover , so american investors would still put money into the company.

as well all money goes to Deutsche Bank AG with some money from top investors still being held in The Bank of New York to keep them happy.

and if you ask anyone that knows anything about stocks they would use the word takeover

[graywolf624]

but the USA government says it is a truck, so it is a truck i am sorry.

So you believe everything the govt says? Govt money gets it entitled a truck. It isn't a truck. Trucks don't have car chassis. In reality the govt calls it an suv.. which falls under the light truck category.. Even that is sketchy.

Daimler needed more than 90 percent of shareholders to tender their shares so the deal could be classed as a merger, rather than a takeover. " see that last line is very important, cause it says that is can be called a merger rather then a takeover , so american investors would still put money into the company. as well all money goes to Deutsche Bank AG with some money from top investors still being held in The Bank of New York to keep them happy.

Considering daimler chrysler isn't making any profits I think its a moot point.

[graywolf624]

On a side note.. daimler chrysler is being sued yet again over the merger.. this will mark 3 suits.. one of which they already lost for the tune of 300 million.

And all and most aren't synonyms.